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magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:22 PM Jul 2013

I sat on a jury just once; what I experienced does worry me

It was a small case in a rural Maine village involving a clammer, who was alleged to have been caught clamming a closed area.

11 people found him guilty. 1 person, a local young woman maybe in her early 20s, insisted he was innocent.

Due to the small nature of the violation, 11 of us eventually relented and let the clammer walk. At the time, I presumed the area was closed due to red tide, and announced loudly that I would never buy clams in that village again, and the other 10 jurists nodded and agreed with me. I have since learned, areas are closed for "seeding" with baby clams and by clamming those areas, he was injuring the future clam business for everybody. So eventually it would catch up with him and there wouldn't be many clams to go digging for.

What worries me is the young woman's rationale. We tried to get her to explain why she was sure he was innocent, but she just shut down and wouldn't talk, which was why we eventually gave up. And then, once we voted not guilty, she suddenly relaxed and started talking.

She insisted that the state clearly "didn't even care." I asked her what made her think that. She went on to describe the beautiful enlarged, glossy map the defense had provided. Apparently, she decided the state "didn't care" because instead of paying for an glossy map of the area, they had the arresting officer draw us a map, complete with lines showing the closed areas, and show exactly where he was and exactly where he saw the clammer.

O.M.F.G. I fixed her with the quiet stare I reserve for explaining things slowly to children, the very naive, and the dimmer bulbs I run into now and then. "They wanted the cop to show us how well he knew the territory. They had him draw the map from memory to demonstrate that he clearly knew where he was, where the clammer was, and where the boundaries were."

The shock on her face as understanding sunk in made it clear she saw how fundamentally mistaken she had been. Too late of course, but nobody's life was at stake here which is why we didn't work harder and longer to get her to open up.

It's really frightening how easily some people are persuaded by slick marketing. I just hope the 6 jurists are a little more sophisticated than she was.

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I sat on a jury just once; what I experienced does worry me (Original Post) magical thyme Jul 2013 OP
That hurt my soul. Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #1
Every one who ever thought about a jury should see "12 Angry Men"... TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #2
If you thought he was guilty you should not have given up. former9thward Jul 2013 #3
i just did a mock jury noiretextatique Jul 2013 #4
I did a mock jury a few years ago MindPilot Jul 2013 #5
Ha, a story I can relate to Babel_17 Jul 2013 #6

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
2. Every one who ever thought about a jury should see "12 Angry Men"...
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:37 PM
Jul 2013

where in that case the dissenter was correct, but it is a brilliant dissection of just how we can go wrong even when we think we're trying to do the right thing.

(And not all of us are trying to do the right thing)

former9thward

(32,097 posts)
3. If you thought he was guilty you should not have given up.
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jul 2013

Even if it ended up a 11-1 mistrial that would have given prosecutor's ammo to negotiate a plea deal with the defendant to avoid a new trial.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
4. i just did a mock jury
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

about abuse at a local nursing home. a relatively healthy elderly woman deteriorated and died in the nursing home after being there for just a month. cause of death was dehydration. the nursing home bilked medicare by claiming this elderly woman had the highest level of physical therapy possible, yet her bedsore got much worse in the short period she was there. three weeks of daily logs were mysteriously missing, and an employee testified that the manager created logs right in front of him.
the younger people on the jury were more concerned about why her neighbors/caretakers were filing suit on behalf of the elderly woman than the clear indications of abuse...and fraud perpetrated by the nursing home staff. the majority voted in favor of the elderly woman, but a few voted for the nursing home because of suspicions about the motives of the people who sued...which was totally irrelevant to the case. yes...you can bet that someone on that jury will be swayed by zimmerman's bullshit.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
5. I did a mock jury a few years ago
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:47 PM
Jul 2013

Based on an anonymous call hours earlier about a man hitting a child in a car, the police show up at that man's apartment around midnight. The man, having no clue what is going on, refuses the cops who do not have a warrant entry to his home. Claiming exigent circumstances, officers arrest the man and enter the home. Finding the kids OK and nothing wrong, they arrest the man for obstruction, failure to comply and resisting.

The deliberations were painful. I was one of maybe three people who weren't in the "if he had just done what the police wanted he wouldn't have been arrested", or "People who don't obey the police need to be in jail", or the ever popular "not letting the police in makes him look guilty" camps.

I almost just got up and walked out because I was so exasperated and frustrated dealing with the cop-worshiping authoritarians.

For the record, the kids were fine. What the caller had seen--looking into another car, at night, on the freeway, while driving, was actually the man trying to right a cooler that had tipped over in the back seat. At the time the kids were asleep.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
6. Ha, a story I can relate to
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:34 PM
Jul 2013

I used to be a clammer. I worked the Great South Bay of Long Island.

Another possibility is that the person was caught in "the winter grounds". That's an area that's closer to shore than the regular clamming area. During the winter when the bacteria count lowers it gets opened.

If the person was clamming to sell seed then there was an unethical buyer involved. Enforcement agencies sometimes check for seed during the ride to dockage or when selling the clams.

Though the clammer could have been selling the clams directly.

My amazing brother still rakes clams at the age of 59 but now he has to work the North Shore of Long Island.

Afaik there are only two clammers left on the South Shore. There used to be hundreds. Due to storms the Great South Bay now gets more ocean water thus marginally raising the salinity. Though i've heard other theories as to why we can't get a good set of seed. We tried so hard by way of planting chowders that produce seed.

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