General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOkay . . . this plane thing . . . . . what am I supposed to think about it?
Reports are unclear and confusing.
Is it a left/right thing?
A like/dislike Obama thing?
A pro/anti Morsi thing?
A Lindsay vs McCain thing?
A Couric vs Palin thing?
Was the plane hijacked? Forced down? Downed with trouble? Running scared? Smuggling humans?
Did the EU capture it? Detain it? Harass it? Search it? De-Ice it? Hook up an APU when it was in Vienna? Allow cabin cleaners on board? Service the toilet holding tanks?
Was DNA found on its handle? Did it get an A in Stand Your Ground class?
Pholus
(4,062 posts)Deep13
(39,154 posts)What you should ask is, "What do I think about it."
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)While gazing at a dazzling kaleidoscope of confusion we are both fascinated and not looking at the features of the greater space that surrounds us.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)It was a Perillo tour back when the old man was still in charge. Airfare was included and the 707 had a smoking section.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)This was exaggerated into a "kidnapping."
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Was a hood alleged to have been used in the kidnapping?
Who got the ransom note with the letters cut from a magazine?
Was the cut up magazine found at the Austrian President's girlfriend's house? I had heard one report of that but then never heard it again.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Bullying on an international scale.
Do you think that's a good thing for the USA to do?
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)What would think if Obama were treated this exact same way?
That okay with you?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)I'm not sure I know the answer!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I must need more caffeine.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)ananda
(28,866 posts)Countries in line with globalization engage in global bullying.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Not to mention the worshippers, cheerleaders, and cultists!
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Imagine a combination of the North Korean Army marching while wearing big floppy shoes, rainbow wigs, and red rubber noses.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)No offense to Clowns, of course.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts):cough:
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts). . . . except he was fond of wearing togas. His friend was recently the the US Veep.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)I knew it was something serial!!!!
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Obama will know...
intaglio
(8,170 posts)1) The Bolivian plane reported a problem with it's fuel system (specifically a fuel gauge that was not working)Feel free to copy/paste
2) This is not an emergency and the Bolivian pilots did not declare an emergency
3) Because it was not an emergency airports do not have to disrupt their holding stacks and landing priorities
4) Various airports either did not have the facilities to for investigation or could not accommodate a non-emergency landing
5) The aircraft was told to return to an airport that had both room in its holding stack and facilities for investigation
6) France did not deny this aircraft access to its airspace
7) Spain did not refuse access to airspace
8) Portugal did not refuse access to airspace
9) ATCs would not give a reason for refusing access to holding stacks, the comment about Snowden is a fabrication by the Bolivians
10) Non-scheduled access to overcrowded holding stacks and landing facilities causes disruption and misery to thousands of people
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)Very well written.
I see no mention of the reports of official apologies. If the list is true, why the alleged apologies?
How bad *was* the trauma to the back of George's head?
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 05:55 PM - Edit history (2)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/03/1221091/-Bolivian-Plane-Landed-Due-to-Faulty-Fuel-Gaugewho in turn took it from Atlantic Wire.http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/07/tale-re-routed-bolivian-presidents-plane-falling-apart/66838/ The Atlantic Wire uses various sources including the Guardian.
France and Spain not refusing airspace was AP via Yahoo http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-case-france-denies-blocking-bolivia-plane-090257428.html as well as the Wire
The Wire article also has a recording of the Bolivian flight's request regarding assistance
Portugal quoted as allowing overflight.
The only diversion rook place over Austria
There was no "search" just the police requesting permission to walk through.
ATC protocols from talking to an ATC at SF conventions a few years ago followed up by simple reading
The tale about Snowden only came from Bolivian sources
I note our full time "revolutionary" Manny has joined in and he will note that the French apologised for any offense given to the Bolivians, which is normal diplomatic speak for "we don't know WTF you are going on about but it won't harm us to be on your good side (plus we have an aversion to the US)"
As an addition for the rabid conspiracy theorists amongst us the French had pre-approved overflight because the flight plan had already been filed and approved. If France had refused overflight then the flight plan would have been different and probably not routed over Austria.
Edited to add that the ATC protocols have also been confirmed by my brother in law who has had a light pilots license for about 20 years.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I was EVER SO worried.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)He's running around saying that he personally reversed France's decision once he knew Morales was on board!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/10158185/Edward-Snowden-Bolivia-accuses-US-of-putting-Evo-Moraless-life-at-risk.html
This gratuitous apology is even more absurd because since when does the leader of one of the world's major countries need to personally weigh in on whether to let a plane into its airspace? Since we know that France didn't, say, refuse overflight because America had a gut feelin' that Snowden was on board, why would Hollande have to override a decision that wasn't made in the first place?
And of course, if France had refused overflight which we know it didn't, the plane was probably already turned around and headed elsewhere by that point.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Because he would have been lying
Flights are given clearance at the start of the flight because refusals amend the flight plan. If France had refuse overflight it is unlikely the plane would have flown over Austria it would have been routed via Turkey and Egypt
Hollande said that if flight clearance had been refused then he apologised. Which is diplomatic speak for "I haven't the faintest idea what happened but it does not hurt to apologise"
You really do want to hurt this President, don't you Manny.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)something they didn't do?
And tell the NY Times that they're making crap up about Portugal and Italy?
And why do people think that searching a head of state's plane is abnormal? Air Force One gets searched by foreign countries all of the time by people looking for hidden war criminals.
Too much outrage, not enough facts.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)I will pay to watch that cage match!
Hope you are well Sir Stanky.
As to de plane, de plane, I don't know WTF to think. Possibly either some agency has Snowden or the NSA got punked. Please let it be the latter if for no other reason than ironic comedic effect.