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kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 08:48 PM Jul 2013

Alan Grayson on Snowden's "greatest fear" ...

In email:

Dear ken:

As the debate over NSA domestic surveillance continues, it's worth recalling what Edward Snowden said about this in his first post-leak interview - specifically, what he called his "greatest fear":

Edward Snowden: The greatest fear I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. People will see in the media all of these disclosures-they'll know the length that the government is going to grant themselves powers, unilaterally, to create greater control over American society and global society. But they won't be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things -- to force their Representatives to actually take a stand in their interests. And in the months ahead, the years ahead, it's only going to get worse, until eventually, there will be a time where policies will change because the ONLY thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance state are policies. Even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy, rather than a stipulation of law. And because of that, a new leader will be elected, they will flip the switch, say that because of the crisis, because of the dangers that we face in the world, you know, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority -- we need more power -- and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny.

In other words, the real issue is not "What Will President Obama Do?" but rather "What Would President Palin Do?" Congressman Grayson, our Congressman With Guts, elaborated on that specific point in an interview on national TV a week ago. Here is what he said:

Host John Fugelsang: So with Edward Snowden's travels much in the news, you've offered an amendment that I wish were getting as much attention as what country he's landing in. An amendment to end NSA spying on Americans, called the 'Mind Your Own Business Act.' Sir, what's in it?

Congressman Alan Grayson: What's in it is a prohibition against the Department of Defense collecting information about Americans on American soil, unless they can show that you're involved in a terrorist conspiracy, or unless they're investigating a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That draws the line where the line has been since the 1870s, and the passage of the Posse Comitatus Act. Now the Department of Defense has obliterated that line, by collecting information on every single telephone call that every American makes, forever.

John: This seems to me [to be] the kind of act that would get support from true liberals and true conservatives alike. What kind of support is your act getting now?

Alan: Well it's too early to say, but there's been tremendous support from the public. Over 20,000 people have already come to our website, MindYourOwnBusinessAct.com, and signed our citizen petition to pass the act. I think over time that will snowball. I think we'll see hundreds of thousands of people eventually, and I think we'll see more and more Members of Congress understand the simple principle that's involved here: That [this] kind of spying does not make us safer, and it is beneath our dignity as Americans.

John: And last week the President rejected comparisons between his administration and Bush-Cheney, or I guess I should say Cheney-Bush, on domestic spying. Do you agree with Barack Obama that there's nothing in common?

Alan: Uh, no, I don't agree with that. Actually there's been a continuous spying on the American citizens through these programs, the two programs that Snowden disclosed, apparently going back at least [since] 2007. One of the documents that he disclosed indicates that Microsoft, which operates the Hotmail e-mail program, joined this NSA program in 2007.

John: And do you think he gets that, sir? Do you think he's aware of how unpopular these programs are?

Alan: No, I don't. And I think that that itself is a disturbing element to this. I think that the so-called 'intelligence community' has the President's ear, and no one else does. Virtually everybody that I know immediately recognizes how silly and pointless it is to spy on every person's conversation, to get information on who is talking to whom, when, and for how long. And ultimately, most people begin to understand the threat involved. The fact is that there is now a [government] record of every telephone call made in America, going back to Alexander Graham Bell, apparently. And the threat involved is what Snowden has called 'turnkey tyranny.' The fact is that someone else after Barack Obama, let's say President Louie Gohmert, can come along and use all that information to make life in America miserable for all Americans.

WWPD - What would Palin Do? When you think about NSA possession of our telephone records, e-mails, online "cloud" storage, file transfers, online "chats," voice-over-internet (VoIP) calls, logins and logouts, that's the real question. Congressman Alan Grayson is asking that question - and answering it.

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Alan Grayson on Snowden's "greatest fear" ... (Original Post) kentuck Jul 2013 OP
For Some, No Amount Of Explanation Will Break Through Mind Traps Set By The Media And Oligarchs cantbeserious Jul 2013 #1
I would and will support Grayson's legislation sigmasix Jul 2013 #2

sigmasix

(794 posts)
2. I would and will support Grayson's legislation
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
Jul 2013

My concern is that we have the same sort of restrictions against the criminally wealthy using this kind of technology against Americans. The chamber of commerce used an internet security company to spy on democratic voters and organizations. They used the same company to steal identities of Move on members and disrupt their communications. Corporations and media conglomerates are spying on Americans and using cyber warfare tactics as part of their partisan political outreach work. I want any legislation designed to stop illegal spying on Americans to include clear language that is sweeping in intent and application. Punishment for corporations and other business/social organizations should be severe and impossible to avoid. Businesses that want to collect any information about Americans should need written, clear consent from each individual subject to information collection. The law ought to be clear about the punishment for attempting to manufacture or decietfully atain consent. Corporations entire board's of directors should have to spend long, hard time in federal lock-up and forfiet their future voting rights and firearm rights.
I doubt any legislation that punishes the criminally wealthy for the evil they commit will never see the light of day. It's easier to get legislation that restricts the actions of the government than it is to get legislation that restricts the actions of the criminally wealthy. I get the feeling that all of this righteous outrage from the right over this subject would disapear if someone started talking about applying the same standards to right wing "job creators" and radical right wing political action committees.

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