Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:13 PM Jul 2013

Should the US Military have a different justice system from our government?

Since they are supposed to be under civilian control?

Should the UCMJ be totally different from the rights of common citizens?

Should the military be allowed to keep prisoners from having an attorney for an indefinite time?

Should they be allowed to torture or put prisoners into prisons without oversight, like Guantanamo?

Does a person give up their constitutional rights when they join the military? Why?

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Should the US Military have a different justice system from our government? (Original Post) kentuck Jul 2013 OP
Yes. The military is different. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #1
Why? kentuck Jul 2013 #2
I'll answer the question with the "why" attached. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #3
"loss of certain privileges"? kentuck Jul 2013 #4
For one thing, you can't just quit if you don't like your orders or command. bluedigger Jul 2013 #5
first of all qazplm Jul 2013 #6
Where is it different with Bradley Manning? kentuck Jul 2013 #7
his trial is just fine qazplm Jul 2013 #8
Military justice = Lead the guilty man in for a fair trial and sentencing. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #9
no qazplm Jul 2013 #10
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
3. I'll answer the question with the "why" attached.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:21 PM
Jul 2013
Does a person give up their constitutional rights when they join the military? Why?

No, but they give up some. In the military, life and death are on the line. Strict discipline must be maintained, and that requires the loss of certain privileges enjoyed in other mean of employment. Not all constitutional rights are given up, nor most.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
4. "loss of certain privileges"?
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:26 PM
Jul 2013

Like what? And if they break the rules, why does the justice have to be different?

bluedigger

(17,087 posts)
5. For one thing, you can't just quit if you don't like your orders or command.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:49 PM
Jul 2013

I think the need for that is pretty obvious. You also give up some rights to sue the government.

qazplm

(3,626 posts)
6. first of all
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013

it isn't all that different.

1. The military rules of evidence closely follow the federal rules of evidence...both in practice and by law.

2. The law also says that the military has to follow federal law where practicable.

The upshot is a person who practices in federal district court would do quite fine in a court-martial. Sure there would be a few areas where there would be differences, but nothing he couldn't wrap his head around rather quickly.

3. In many places, the military rules actually FAVOR the accused. Article 31 is a much broader application of Miranda that expand when a Soldier is required to be given rights and what those rights are, in part because of the concern that Soldiers are used to following orders and thus may not fully understand or feel free to remain silent in the face of questioning.

Their rights under a guilty plea are designed around this as well, to insure they truly believe they are guilty. Thus a military guilty plea is a much more extensive process than a civilian guilty plea.

There are other examples but what I find is that there are a host of civilian misconceptions about what the military justice system actually is and isn't.

qazplm

(3,626 posts)
8. his trial is just fine
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 01:32 PM
Jul 2013

his being held by the army was just fine.

His being held by the Marines was a godawful fuck up of tremendous proportions.

The problem there wasn't systemic, but individualized.

qazplm

(3,626 posts)
10. no
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 01:50 PM
Jul 2013

it doesn't mean that at all. There are plenty of acquittals at courts-martial. I know, I've gotten them as a defense counsel, and I've had them happen as a prosecutor.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Should the US Military ha...