General Discussion

think

(11,641 posts) Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:40 PM Jul 2013

"Have there been any violations of the court orders"

permitting this bulk collection, or of the rules governing access to these records? If so, please describe these violations"

22 Democratic Senators, 3 Republican Senators, & Senator Bernie Sandors just recently sent a letter to the NSA asking that very question.

It's pathetic they even have to ask a question such as this but that is where we are in regards to the NSA, law violations, and Secret Law.

When our own US senators must ask the secret spy agency if they are violating the law how can the American people have the slightest clue as to what the NSA & private contractors like Booz Allen are really doing and if they are acting in a law abiding manor?

(Bold added for emphasis.)

Bipartisan Group of 26 Senators Seek Answers from DNI Clapper on Bulk Data Collection Program

Friday, June 28, 2013

Washington, D.C. – The recent public disclosures of secret government surveillance programs have exposed how secret interpretations of the USA PATRIOT Act have allowed for the bulk collection of massive amounts of data on the communications of ordinary Americans with no connection to wrong-doing. Reliance on secret law to conduct domestic surveillance activities raises serious civil liberty concerns and all but removes the public from an informed national security and civil liberty debate.

In order to foster that debate, 26 senators sent a letter organized by U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asking Director of National Intelligence Clapper to publicly provide information about the duration and scope of the program and provide examples of its effectiveness in providing unique intelligence, if such examples exist.

“We are concerned that by depending on secret interpretations of the PATRIOT Act that differed from an intuitive reading of the statute, this program essentially relied for years on a secret body of law,” the senators wrote in the letter. This and misleading statements by Intelligence officials have “prevented our constituents from evaluating the decisions that their government was making, and will unfortunately undermine trust in government more broadly. The debate that the President has now welcomed is an important first step toward restoring that trust.”

The senators expressed their concern that the program itself has a significant impact on the privacy of law-abiding Americans and that the PATRIOT Act could be used for the bulk collection of records beyond phone metadata. The PATRIOT Act’s “business records” authority can be used to give the government access to private financial, medical, consumer and firearm sales records, among others. In addition to raising concerns about the law’s scope, the senators noted that keeping the official interpretation of the law secret and the instances of misleading public statements from executive branch officials prevented the American people from having an informed public debate about national security and domestic surveillance.

The senators are seeking public answers to the following questions in order to give the American people the information they need to conduct an informed public debate.

How long has the NSA used PATRIOT Act authorities to engage in bulk collection of Americans’ records? Was this collection underway when the law was reauthorized in 2006?

Has the NSA used USA PATRIOT Act authorities to conduct bulk collection of any other types of records pertaining to Americans, beyond phone records?

Has the NSA collected or made any plans to collect Americans’ cell-site location data in bulk?

Have there been any violations of the court orders permitting this bulk collection, or of the rules governing access to these records? If so, please describe these violations.

Please identify any specific examples of instances in which intelligence gained by reviewing phone records obtained through Section 215 bulk collection proved useful in thwarting a particular terrorist plot.

Please provide specific examples of instances in which useful intelligence was gained by reviewing phone records that could not have been obtained without the bulk collection authority, if such examples exist.

Please describe the employment status of all persons with conceivable access to this data, including IT professionals, and detail whether they are federal employees, civilian or military, or contractors.

The Senators signing the letter are: Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), Mark Udall (D-Colo.), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), Jon Tester (D-Mont.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Dean Heller (R- Nev.),Mark Begich (D-Alaska), Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chris Coons (D-Del.), Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah).

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/bipartisan-group-of-26-senators-seek-answers-from-dni-clapper-on-bulk-data-collection-program

6 replies

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Highlight:

"Have there been any violations of the court orders" (Original Post) think Jul 2013 OP

As We Have Been Told - The Unitary Executive Is Above The Law cantbeserious Jul 2013 #1

With the entanglement of private contractors the NSA is truly a two headed monster think Jul 2013 #3

They are going through the traditional steps Lurks Often Jul 2013 #2

It is traditional to ask the NSA if they violated the law? That is some tradition... think Jul 2013 #4

It is traditional to send a letter asking a specific person or agency Lurks Often Jul 2013 #5

Yes. When everything is classified even to congress it is hard to have evidence of any think Jul 2013 #6

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)

1. As We Have Been Told - The Unitary Executive Is Above The Law

Reply to think (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:51 PM

Jul 2013

eom

think

(11,641 posts)

3. With the entanglement of private contractors the NSA is truly a two headed monster

Reply to cantbeserious (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:59 PM

Jul 2013

that acts and believes exactly as you claim....

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)

2. They are going through the traditional steps

Reply to think (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:57 PM

Jul 2013

Congress always sends letters requesting a responses first.

One way to look at it is that a written response gives them a basis from which to start investigations.

think

(11,641 posts)

4. It is traditional to ask the NSA if they violated the law? That is some tradition...

Reply to Lurks Often (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:00 PM

Jul 2013

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)

5. It is traditional to send a letter asking a specific person or agency

Reply to think (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:03 PM

Jul 2013

asking them to explain their actions or request information.

The sad part is, I'm not sure Congress would ever be able to get enough evidence prove that the NSA lied or not.

think

(11,641 posts)

6. Yes. When everything is classified even to congress it is hard to have evidence of any

Reply to Lurks Often (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:15 PM

Jul 2013

wrong doings.

It would seem unfathomable if it weren't true.

And I do understand that it is standard procedure for Senators to pursue inquiries in such a manor as this. It is just the subject of the inquiry that is so hard to stomach.

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