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tblue

(16,350 posts)
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:21 AM Jul 2013

Can Trayvon's family sue GZ in civil court?

Or for violation of Trayvon's civil rights? (Is that the same kind of lawsuit?)

Obviously I don't know anything about these laws, but should this murderer's trial end with a hung jury or an acquittal, can GZ be sued in civil court where there might be a better chance for success?

That's what happened with OJ. I don't think the Brown family got any money from it, but at least he was found guilty.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can Trayvon's family sue GZ in civil court? (Original Post) tblue Jul 2013 OP
sue him for what? TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #1
Folks send him donations. And if he isn't convicted then he can make money off of a film and/or book Tx4obama Jul 2013 #2
A book by Zimmerman wouldnt make any money... KinMd Jul 2013 #3
he will be a millionaire if aquitted friendlyFRIEND Jul 2013 #5
Zanie the nanny (that wasn't) sued Casey Anthony in Florida. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #7
Welcome Back! RandiFan1290 Jul 2013 #31
His wife is facing a perjury charge for claiming they were broke. Nevernose Jul 2013 #13
all the money he got from donations have been spent TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #21
FL has civil immunity. See post 22. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #23
I had forgotten about that TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #25
They both conspired to lie to the court JimDandy Jul 2013 #24
They can sue him. They already sued and settled with the homeowner's association... PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #4
Excerpt from your HuffPo link ... Tx4obama Jul 2013 #8
Right. Which is why I wrote "they can sue him". n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #9
Right. I just wanted to post the excerpt so others on thread can see 'they PLAN to sue him'. n/t Tx4obama Jul 2013 #10
The HOA isn't a real person and didn't pull the trigger. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #11
thanks Green friendlyFRIEND Jul 2013 #14
See below. I posted the law and a link. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #16
Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force. PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #17
I have already posted the ENTIRE law below in this thread. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #18
Zimmerman was acting as an agent avebury Jul 2013 #32
I hope they sue him in civil court for every penny the bastard has and every one he Rowdyboy Jul 2013 #6
Me too. tblue Jul 2013 #20
Yes. And they will. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #12
Here is the law: GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #15
Thank you, but that's Criminal Law, right? tblue Jul 2013 #19
Here is the civil immunity section: GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #22
And Mr. Zimmerman.... BronxBoy Jul 2013 #26
I'm no lawyer BronxBoy Jul 2013 #28
Yes they can and I hope they do and I hope they win. That will make any money he makes sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #27
Most likely no. bayareamike Jul 2013 #29
Martin Family has already sued and settled with HOA Gothmog Jul 2013 #30

KinMd

(966 posts)
3. A book by Zimmerman wouldnt make any money...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:51 AM
Jul 2013

what would it be beside a rehash of the trial? Anyone seen the best seller by Casey Anthony?

 

friendlyFRIEND

(94 posts)
5. he will be a millionaire if aquitted
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:53 AM
Jul 2013

you forget about the media lawsuits. There is the NBC edited audiotape scandal, the CNN social security number issue and they will pick and choose media types for libel suits.

And iirc, Florida law says if you found not guilty, you cant be sued.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
7. Zanie the nanny (that wasn't) sued Casey Anthony in Florida.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:57 AM
Jul 2013

I don't know about the Martins being able to sue Zmmerman, but nowadays it seems as if anyone can file a lawsuit - doesn't mean they'd win though.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
13. His wife is facing a perjury charge for claiming they were broke.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:08 AM
Jul 2013

Profits from his friend's book are being held in trust already. Presumably to protect the assets when GZ'S is sued for wrongful death. It won't work, but it will make it slightly harder to get the money. It's called something like "assumed assets" or "potential future assets." Hell, they can garnish his wages for the rest of his life.

And he's doing all right. Some estimates have him being made a millionaire off of this already. In fact, his wife is facing prosecution for perjury because she lied about assets during the bail hearing.

Ironically, there is every possibility that George will walk away scot-free, while his wife will probably do some time for perjury.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
21. all the money he got from donations have been spent
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:24 AM
Jul 2013

O'Mara even recently begged that more donations be sent in because they were almost gone. As for profits from the book, I don't believe for a minute that they have been put in an an account for Zimmerman. Osterman never even consulted Zimmerman on the book to begin with, and if the profits were to go to him then why haven't they all the way along? Zimmerman's BFF used his story to write a book to profit for himself. Only since the trial has this idea come up that they intend to save all the profits and give them to Zimmerman so they don't look like users profiting off of their buddy.

The only way it makes sense to sue in a civil court is that if he's not found guilty to keep him from profiting off of the incident by interviews or book profits or whatever. And somewhere the Martin family would have to come up with the money to sue. I takes a LOT of money to pursue any civil case.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
24. They both conspired to lie to the court
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:14 AM
Jul 2013

about their finances and to hide George's 2nd valid passport from the court. Zimmerman may soon be facing charges of conspiracy to commit perjury and perhaps conspiracy to defraud the State. Hope this is more than just wishful thinking on my part.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
8. Excerpt from your HuffPo link ...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:00 AM
Jul 2013

-snip-

... The settlement does, however, state that Zimmerman is not part of the agreement. Lawyers for Martin's family have made it clear that they still plan to file a civil claim against Zimmerman at a later point.

-snip-


GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
11. The HOA isn't a real person and didn't pull the trigger.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:07 AM
Jul 2013

The HOA can't claim self-defense. In FL, if a shooting is ruled justified, the shooter has civil immunity from being successfully sued by anyone over the shooting.

I don't see that the HOA did anything wrong. Z was acting against Neighborhood Watch protocol and not at the direction of the HOA. He was acting on his own, so the HOA wasn't responsible.

 

friendlyFRIEND

(94 posts)
14. thanks Green
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:18 AM
Jul 2013

The HOA can't claim self-defense. In FL, if a shooting is ruled justified, the shooter has civil immunity from being successfully sued by anyone over the shooting.

Do you have a link to the law for this?

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
17. Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:38 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html


776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1)?A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2)?A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3)?The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2012&Title=-%3E2012-%3EChapter%20776

Zimmerman waived the pre-trial hearing that would have determined if the above applied.

“By not having a pre-trial hearing, George preserves his right to petition the court for criminal and/or civil immunity at the time of his choosing,” O’Mara says.
http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/05/zimmerman-foregoes-self-defense/



avebury

(10,952 posts)
32. Zimmerman was acting as an agent
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:39 AM
Jul 2013

of the HOA at the time of the incident. If he routinely operated as the armed head of the Neighborhood Watch, then it was the responsibility of the HOA to put a hault to that.

Rowdyboy

(22,057 posts)
6. I hope they sue him in civil court for every penny the bastard has and every one he
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:57 AM
Jul 2013

can ever make. And take his parents, the enablers, home too.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
20. Me too.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:14 AM
Jul 2013

He won't live a happy life. No matter what it looks like on the surface, he will not be a happy man no matter what happens with this case.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
15. Here is the law:
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:24 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html

JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012?Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1)?He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2)?Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
-------------
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

776.013?Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1)?A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a)?The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b)?The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2)?The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a)?The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b)?The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c)?The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d)?The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4)?A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5)?As used in this section, the term:
(a)?“Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

(b)?“Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

(c)?“Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
------------
Here is the civil immunity law : 776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.

(1)?A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2)?A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3)?The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
------------------
776.031 deals with deadly force to protect property or protect family members.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
19. Thank you, but that's Criminal Law, right?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:12 AM
Jul 2013

And I hate to say where I think this criminal suit is gonna end up. But, Civil Law is different. Correct me if I'm wrong please, and I confess I get confused reading legalese. But the burden of proof has a more lenient standard, I believe. Right?

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
22. Here is the civil immunity section:
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:24 AM
Jul 2013
The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

If he walks completely, then the Martins can't touch him. The Martins would end up having to pay Z legal costs that resulted from their suit, as well as any other expenses he may claim from it.

However, I am not a lawyer and there may be some aspect or interpretation that I have wrong.

Personally, I am very unhappy with Z. He violated CCW training he when left the safety of his vehicle. TM wasn't an angel. He was a troubled 17 year old. But he didn't have a police record yet and still had a chance to outgrow his infatuation with being a gangsta wannabe. Now that is closed to him - forever.

BronxBoy

(2,286 posts)
26. And Mr. Zimmerman....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:59 AM
Jul 2013

had numerous run ins with the law and his life has been a slow escalation until that fateful night in Florida. Assaulted a cop, assaulted a women and overall gives the impression of a guy who had a problem keeping his emotions and hands to himself even after he grew into adulthood. And yet from your perspective his main transgression is that he violated CCW training and the truly troubled life was that of Trayvon.

Interesting

BronxBoy

(2,286 posts)
28. I'm no lawyer
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:20 AM
Jul 2013

but it would seem that a large factor would depend on whether or not a not guilty verdict automatically can be construed as supporting a self defense claim. Again, I'm no lawyer but a jury can potentially reach a not guilty verdict for reasons other than self defense such as a lack of evidence but can also say that they are not sure that the defendant was justified in the use of force.

Has anyone in Florida tested this law by filing a case after a verdict has been reached? I can see where this would be an open and shut case if I walked into my home and shot a robber that came towards me. Why should his family be able to sue me? But the problem with this case is that it falls cleanly in the shadows.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
27. Yes they can and I hope they do and I hope they win. That will make any money he makes
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:07 AM
Jul 2013

from this THEIRS.

Whether he is convicted or not, they should do so, so that no money is made from this crime.

bayareamike

(602 posts)
29. Most likely no.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 04:44 AM
Jul 2013

Under FL Statute 776.032, if GZ's self defense is found to be lawful then he has immunity from civil action. Additionally there is 'collateral estoppel', which means that once the court has decided the issue it is binding on the parties involved in the event of subsequent cases.

I say "most likely no" because there is some gray area on whether or not collateral estoppel is binding across the criminal and civil realms. However, statute 776.032 makes it clear that the state's intent is to make it binding across these realms. In short, if GZ walks, he will be free from any civil suits.

Gothmog

(145,554 posts)
30. Martin Family has already sued and settled with HOA
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:28 AM
Jul 2013

I saw that the Martin family sued and settled with the HOA. I imagine that the insurance carrier just paid up the policy limits

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