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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:18 AM Jul 2013

The Quiet Coup: No, Not Egypt. Here.

When is a coup d'etat a coup d'etat? A silly debate about the Egyptian military's complete undoing of the state (presidency, constitution, etc.) is grabbing some attention, mainly because those who applaud the military takeover don't want to describe it accurately. But it nonetheless is an interesting question. And it has resonance not just in the beleaguered Middle East. It has high relevance, sadly, to our own battered republic.

The revelations about spying by the National Security Agency (NSA) on American citizens, foreign governments, and just about everyone in between have been aptly treated as a scandal, although the objects of scorn vary. Edward Snowden, the whistleblower or traitor, depending on your predilections, and Glenn Greenwald, the columnist for The Guardian to whomSnowden revealed most of his information, have shaken the complacent status quo in Washington by revealing the massive, years-long programs to gather data in the name of national security. It's very doubtful that such spying is necessary to protect U.S. security, but that's a topic for another day. So is the media attention to the actions of Snowden and Greenwald (which I believe are brave and necessary).

What is vastly more important is how the spying has been conducted and justified. It comprises nothing less than a coup d'etat.

It's not the kind of coup we are accustomed to...........


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-tirman/nsa-deep-state_b_3569316.html







John Tirman is executive director of the MIT Center for International Studies.



'Now we know: the United States of America is partially governed by a deep state, undemocratic, secret, aligned with intelligence agencies, spying on friend and foe, lawless in almost every respect'.


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malaise

(269,157 posts)
2. When John Roberts has more power than the US President re appointments
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 06:24 AM
Jul 2013

and national security is it a coup? When a minority in the Senate can prevent Federal appointments is it a coup? When women's constitutional rights can be inked away in secret, is it a coup?
This is about way more than the NSA.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
4. And in some way it has less to do with a 'secret' organized group effort
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:07 AM
Jul 2013

and more to do about the accumulation of actions by many self-serving, self-interested individuals and groups taking advantage of opportunities that have become more and more available as they chip away at regulations and insert more and more people aligned with their goals in positions within the government. I see it less as a conspiracy and more the fact that we are reaping the results of right-wing efforts that have been very popular with a lot of people in this country especially over the last 30 years.

It's disgusting, the results we are seeing. But we are not fighting a "secret" organization. It's the hearts and minds of people that need to change. When more people prefer justice over revenge, peace over war, and compassion over blame, then those values will reflect in the leadership choices we make. But as long as we continue to put more trust in those who "talk tough" and are "willing to make the hard choices" (as in, willing to hurt people for gain), then we're just going to keep seeing those attitudes reflected in our leadership.

The coup is our darker angels getting the best of us.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
5. Good post but it is a right wing plan
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:28 AM
Jul 2013

to go back to the pre-depression days of greed is good and fuck the poor. That was the Reagan plan.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
8. Very true. It's right-wing values that people have that are our main problem.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:52 AM
Jul 2013

The fact that they produce results and make a few people very rich is why people cling to them. But they have a very negative effect overall and that is what is hard for these people to grasp.

There is also a left-wing plan as well. It's usually stated as the "left-wing agenda" in a derogatory fashion. It's a matter of what people value and believe. I'd say the left-wing agenda is a conspiracy to get people to breath clean air, drink pure water, eat healthy food, work in safe conditions, earn a living wage, take regular vacations, build things for the community, eliminate poverty, etc., etc. Republicans fear we are trying to control their lives and keep them down... but just look whose policies are doing just that.

Wasn't there a folk song with the words "Whose side are you on"? I think it's kind of like that.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
13. In a way you're right, and in a way you're wrong
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:37 PM
Jul 2013

It certainly is the values system that's being imposed that's causing the problem, but the people in charge pushing them are more than an organization- they're family.

Almost all of the people in Washington that are pushing these programs and benefiting from them are tied to each other by blood or marriage or business. You pick up any of these people and their wives or brothers or cousins are all connected to some other part of the massive machine. That machine is connected by money and power, so it's self-sustaining.

So yes, there are people in their boardrooms making 5 year plans to dismantle the law, steal our tax money and other things we'd not approve of. They are organized, believe their ideology, and a "big club." They pass their money and power to their kids, and it all continues.

This is how entrenched the power is that we need to fight. Voting isn't going to make them go away. Enforcing the law would.

edhopper

(33,615 posts)
6. Yes, there was a coup here
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:31 AM
Jul 2013

it was the 2000 election, when the loser was installed.

What is described here might be bad, but it does not rise to the level of a coup. Abuse of power maybe, but all those involved are rightfully in office.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
9. Holy Shit! ..nearly 4,000 organizations in USA, each with its own counterterrorism responsibilities
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:00 AM
Jul 2013

"nearly 4,000 organizations in the United States, "each with its own counterterrorism responsibilities and jurisdictions."

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
10. Money trumps peace. And justice. And democracy. And the Constitution.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:08 AM
Jul 2013

NSA spying benefits one small group at the expense of the majority -- those in on the secrets. They use that information in their public and private affairs to secure and increase their holdings.

Who's been in on those secrets from Day One? Who's used office to enrich themselves and their cronies? Who's used war to consolidate political power? Who's used political power to punish their enemies? DU's been on to their gangster arses a while...

Know your BFEE: Scions of the Military Industrial Complex

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