General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome thoughts on the BART strike from a Labor Economics teacher at a Labor school in NYC:
This was a reply to the letters below.
Some thoughts on this from a Labor Economics teacher at a Labor school in NYC:
Sadly, the state of affairs is so bad that instead of trying to get a higher salary for yourself or better benefits, the defensive position is to blame and attack the little guy. Ironically, I see this exact same mentality from my students (unionized electrician apprentices in NYC) around welfare, unemployment benefits, etc.
I always try to steer the direction on how wealth is relative, so who cares if your foreman you don't like is making 100K (which they should support so that they can too someday!) when the wall street hedgefund manager is making 2 million an HOUR. Coupled with the fact that the Wall street hedgefund manager pays a lower effective tax rate than the BART transit worker (thanks capital gains!) and then they can really gobble up all the resources (apartments, etc.) and make things far more expensive for the rest of us. If they top is taking up most of the wealth, it doesn't matter that a transit cop makes that much, it's still a drop in the bucket.
I'm no OSHA expert, but I would bet that being a BART transit police officer or rail repair person IS dangerous, otherwise everyone would want to do it and they couldn't garner that high of a wage. I'm also betting that those are three of the top folks in terms of seniority, time at the job, and experience and so they garner that pay.
Finally, this guy is an idiot if he thinks that one third of a million dollars is going to make a difference in the budget for transportation infrastructure. Public goods, like public transportation, are INSANELY expensive and therefore only work as a public entity. (in NYC, the subway used to be private and so you had to pay one fare to take the J,Z, then another for the A, it was very cost prohibitive for the average Joe to take and horribly maintained). As a public good, the government can own, operate, and manage it and properly subsidize it. When the MTA went on strike in 2005, the city lost millions in revenue - having a well functioning transit system is economically necessary for a city (not to mention it's quality of life) and therefore folks need to pay for that. Blaming a police officer, or fireman, that has put his life on the line every day for that system to properly work is stupid and envious. If he thinks they are overpaid, he should try to do their job. I bet that he can't.
Kate
I don't think of myself as liberal or conservative. I do think everyone should get a fair deal. What we have seen historically in the US is major shifts of "who's got the power" between "business" and "workers". Back in Henry Ford's day the business's had pretty much all the power. The reaction to that was the rise of the Unions. The Unions did a lot of good to get a fair deal for the individually powerless workers (in numbers there is power). Then, as seems to always be the case, the power corrupted them, made them greedy. When we didn't have world economy they could get away with it. The more the world opened up the less and less power the Unions had. And at the same time, because of all the gains the Unions had made for their workers, the workers started seeing less and less immediate need for the Unions and the Unions started losing power and members. The pendulum swung the other way. Just about the only large remaining "protected" from global competition group anymore are the various "municipal" type Unions - Fire, Police, Transit, Garbage, etc. You can't outsource those jobs and you are a hostage if they wish to strike. Some states have made it illegal for them to strike but in the process they have created a different monster -> meet and confer laws leading to contracts treating those city workers as if they are a private company. What the city politicians got in return are guaranteed bribes, opps, I mean campaign contribution sources as well as campaign labor sources. They also got LARGE municipal unions that cover multiple cities. This allows them to play one city against the other as well as perform political acts in one city that are prohibited in another by having the workers from City A, who are prohibited from political activity in City A, do their political work in City B. The City B workers do the same in City A. So, we are left with Municipal Unions (some are state level, principles are the same) that have way too much power and no competition. Because of how they have worked the political system no politician wants to fight with them... they'll lose that important "endorsed by the Police and Fire Dept" label, which really means the Union members won't vote for them AND those members will work for their opponent.
Below are some examples of what Bart Pays...
That's nearly a Third of a Million dollars in compensation per year for the police who make sure people have tickets. The guy repairing track is making over $200K.
There is NO incentive for either management or workers to keep pay in check. They can afford to be loud mouthed and greedy and it's the same story, particularly with fire and police, in EVERY unionized city in the country. The Police in particular are the worst - they have replaced the mafia in terms of being an effective "criminal" enterprise that shakes down the citizens and politicians alike. You won't find many/any other jobs where someone with a GED can start out making more money as a rookie cop then a graduate engineer. And they have brainwashed the public into believing their jobs are dangerous when they aren't even in the top ten of dangerous jobs for on the job deaths. A taxi driver has a more dangerous job.
Whoever is the top dog at BART should do what Reagan did when the Air Traffic Controller went on strike - fire them all.
And this comment: Hi,
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and as many of you know, we are going through a major public transit strike. Our metro/subway system, BART, os shut down,
stranding 400,000 commuters (including my wife.)-- and we are also in the midst of a heat wave-- and NO NO TALKS ARE SCHEDULED
Now, I'm pretty liberal, and a union man... BUT the 3 transit unions in this case are loudmouthed and greedy. They want a 13% raise, BART is offering 8%. BART management
aren't that great, but I have to say in this case the unions are more to blame. and I'm starting to get really PISSED our roads and highways are nightmares.... and the assholes mutually agree NOT to meet? If it were up to me, I'd put BOTH sides leadership in jail, till they make a deal...
For the life of me I can't understand why they are allowed to strike--why some form of binding arbitration can be imposed-- and WHY 400,000 commuters and a Bay Area population of 6 million has to be held hostage day after day by a handful of assholes..... sorry.... you know, some of the picket signs read "better deal for workers and riders"-- BULLSHIT
if they get their way, our fares will rise. who's the real loser??-- us, the public
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Thanks for posting this one Steve!
Omaha Steve
(99,708 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)A) The police were not part of the strikers, but their pay was averaged into the numbers the media was using, along with the pay rates of management, ditto not striking.
B) Only the most senior people make the larger amounts mark, hence the "Senior" in his title there as foreworker. If the other parts of the chart had been shown, you'd see tons of people making much less.
The media in the Bay Area did an irresponsible hatchet job on the unions and the strike out here. It completely inflamed the public and took days to respond to the complicated distortions they raised. Fuckers.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It's not irresponsible, it/ by design
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Any of the journalists who protested or tried to get unions in the paper were canned.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And likely black listed.
We need national strikes.
byeya
(2,842 posts)near the extent the Chicago teachers were(are).
The successful large unions will be social in outlook and not merely servicers of the contract or business unions.
Ideally, we would be seeing BART unions helping with the picketting and educating.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Others not yet
byeya
(2,842 posts)social union.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)They need to build up more regional allies and make the moral case and find common ground. Even if the economic argument is logical, that doesn't unite people across the lines. Hopefully they will retrench and put a personal face on what is going on with their conditions.
byeya
(2,842 posts)and the anti-union laws that have passed and the anti-union court decisions. If you have solid community support, the affiliated groups can make the case for the strikers even if the strikers are barred by law from negotiating in certain areas.
It makes sense - and a stronger society - for unions to sincerely reach out and form bonds with community organizations and support them in their hour of need.
AFL-CIO president Trumpka needs to follow through on his idea that unions will support Democrats when there is a common interest. The days of labor being the gofor for the Democrats should be over.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's kind of a process for unions to go outside their usual workplace struggles and realize that they need to be champions for their communities. It seems like common sense, but it takes a philosophical shift.
byeya
(2,842 posts)of social unionism. They - the CTU and the parents and the community - took on Rahm and won an important victory.
It also is hard for unions to shift money from defending adverse actions and grievances to organizing and out reach but I think it must be done.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)They've been advising the AFT union for CCSF out here and cautioned them against trying to a mass general action without doing serious groundwork.
Good news is that AFL-CIO established a grant for non-union workers' centers, the alt-labor sector, to help them organize. They've also been establishing an independent activist network. Hopefully they'll keep expanding it where they can.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)as it relates to the disability community, which was basically left stranded rather than "inconvenienced" like the poor guy who had to sail his own yacht over to SF! (Srsly, the LA Times reported this!)
Guess who was the first caller...
http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/93140
http://archives.kpfa.org/data/20130705-Fri1430.mp3
byeya
(2,842 posts)It beats faceless bureaucrats and haughty CEOs any day.
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)I like the the "liberal and union man". I have news for you stupid; if the Bart workers get nothing your fares are still going up and your streets still aren't getting fixed. Management will get raises and bosses will get huge bonuses for less and less service.
How people look at this and decide that the workers are greedy is crazy. Is it getting cheaper to live in the bay area?
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)We are unionized but so many are narrow and short sighted and carry water for the one percent. Their attitude can pretty much be summed up as: "Everybody but me is overpaid. If everybody else made less my money would go further".
Yeah, real good economic startegy that. I'll often say in reply: If everybody else but you got a pay cut, that is less customers for the business we work for, you know, the ones that put food on your table. They just look away from my eyes, smirk and give a nervous chuckle; Either that, or come back with an angry "they're gonna take away our guns" rant.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)And, in an extremely high end cost of living zone. Some construction workers make this much, 100-150K before benefits, supervision, and accounting.
The real problem, as I see it, is that our government fears letting the people decide. That is, it could be a vote. All $5 rides will go to $5.25 and the pay goes up, OR, we let them strike, OR, we let them strike and we work to replace them.
Open the books? A vote? Never! They would sooner laser off their own privates.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Any pay increase for BART employees must obviously be paid for somehow, and there's the problem. First, they already make very good money plus benefits very few people have, and second they are asking the public -- who often don't make that kind of money or benefits -- to take home less for themselves so that union members can have more.
I think more people in the public would support unions and striking workers if they were in unions themselves and saw some benefit. But they are not, unions today are generally public workers. When they are not they are as often as not little more than exclusive clubs.
I would love nothing more than to see unions make a comeback. I would love to see every worker in America a member of a union, and see unions standing together to fight for each other. But that day is long gone and it probably wont come back -- not without a lot of blood being shed. Until that day, it will be a tough sell -- particularly for public unions.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)it was suggested that the unions run the trains but refuse to collect fares, i.e. just leave the fare gates open. That'd make management shit bricks, as well as give the PR advantage back to the unions: "Free rides on BART this week, brought to you by your friendly workers at ATU and SEIU".
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)wages have fallen you benefits are going along with your pensions and vacations and raises etc.
Omaha Steve
(99,708 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Does this guy even ride BART? It's a fare-controlled system, like DC Metro or the NYC subway. BART police are a fully-fledged police force, not at all like the fare inspectors on SF Muni or VTA in Silicon Valley. Those are "proof-of-payment" systems.
Okay, this guy may actually have a point. That's the way it works in NYC. (The 2005 strike mentioned above was illegal.) But even so, the TWU there gets good contracts and benefits, and has to deal with far less crap from management than the BART unions do. That's because NYC recognizes that transit, and transit riders, are essential to its functioning. The Bay Area obviously does not.