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GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:42 AM Jul 2013

ZIMMERMAN TRIAL - MORNING, Day 12, Wednesday, July 10, 2013

Let's combine all the Z rial comments into one huge thread instead of bunches of thread in GD

I am not sure if the link that I have been posting is still good. Here it is: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/ This site seems to be down. Use another link.

If someone else has a better one, please post it.

I have stuff I have to do today so another DUer will post the afternoon thread.

I expect today to be nasty. At last night's trial session they were talking about the stuff on TM's phone and how late the defense got it. It sounds like they plan to bring TM's character into this today. Not surprising.

The defense has said they plan to wrap it up today.

Here is another link: http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/watch-george-zimmerman-trial-live

Judge still has to rule on several items of admissablity.

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL - MORNING, Day 12, Wednesday, July 10, 2013 (Original Post) GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP
The defense did have the phone material, it had been given to them in a 'bin file'... Spazito Jul 2013 #1
OK. I only saw a few minutes of that session. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #2
The state did their job when they avebury Jul 2013 #3
do you know what is meant by a bin file? TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #7
binary file that needs to be opened by an application, I believe as in convert to pdf chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #11
AFTERNOON THREAD LINK Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #354
It is like a computer file. I imagine they avebury Jul 2013 #13
Yes, they gave the defense what they had and basically made them do chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #15
thanks! TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #18
I think they're referring to a binary file. Jim__ Jul 2013 #17
The defense seems to be playing games. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #4
Yep, and adding to that the defense seems to have plenty of time for press... Spazito Jul 2013 #5
It's a delay tactic. Lisa D Jul 2013 #8
Ding ding... Winner! n/t JimDandy Jul 2013 #56
I saw that video and was gobsmacked justiceischeap Jul 2013 #9
I thought the same thing. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #22
The complaining defense attorney JimDandy Jul 2013 #66
Trying to get a declaration of mis-trial? Myrina Jul 2013 #49
Is the prosecution expected to call any of Martin's friends in rebuttal to chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #6
Any witnesses the prosecution wanted to put on the stand had to be called during their phase of the Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #20
The State has the right to put on a rebuttal case after the defense rests.... Spazito Jul 2013 #23
No animation, no text messages Marrah_G Jul 2013 #10
Judge Nelson has denied the defense re the animation and the... Spazito Jul 2013 #12
Whaaaa? That's not good to allow it in closing, though, JimDandy Jul 2013 #75
they can only use it to illustrate evidence that is already admitted magical thyme Jul 2013 #86
The State, having the final say through their rebuttal closing argument after the defense... Spazito Jul 2013 #172
Judge ruled. Cartoon can't be used as evidence. TM's phone stuff can't be used. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #14
The correct ruling warrior1 Jul 2013 #16
Could this end up being grounds for appeal? YarnAddict Jul 2013 #30
they weren't admitted because they weren't authenticated TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #37
People think there are all sorts of grounds for appeal; there aren't. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #103
Dennis Root, Private Investigator and defense trainer called. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #19
This guy is about to say deadly force was used correctly, I believe. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #21
This could backfire. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #24
Very much so. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #25
If nothing else, it will showcase Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #27
I am looking forward to prosecution asking what the procedure is chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #28
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #274
They could very easily address how Martin could use self defense. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2013 #29
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #277
I agree, particularly if the PA avebury Jul 2013 #31
I agree... Punkingal Jul 2013 #48
The second livestream works: ellisonz Jul 2013 #26
So in other words, we are to believe that avebury Jul 2013 #32
Expert on fighting & personal weapons. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #33
Nope, he's an expert on everything. n/t ellisonz Jul 2013 #38
Ok, I imagine I'm on the jury, I am doing my best, but my mind wanders as I wonder Ninga Jul 2013 #34
Zimmerman's wife has yet to testify... Spazito Jul 2013 #35
Maybe defense thinks that all the blah blah blah will make the jury forget she even exists.......nt Ninga Jul 2013 #41
They can hope but it won't happen... Spazito Jul 2013 #46
I would think the jury is already been wondering TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #43
Yep, that is my thinking as well... Spazito Jul 2013 #47
and if they do call her, Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #258
The defense is between a rock and a hard place due to the actions of their client and... Spazito Jul 2013 #281
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #269
How will the judge handle the defense witness that violated the sequester order Ninga Jul 2013 #36
There were two witnesses who violated their sequestration order.... Spazito Jul 2013 #40
Thx... Nt Ninga Jul 2013 #42
can you say more about this? Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #270
Oh I get it...this arms expert wants his five minutes in the spotlight.... Ninga Jul 2013 #39
I can't figure out what he's doing on the stand at all TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #45
He's there to promote himself and his business n/t tom_kelly Jul 2013 #55
so far that's all I can see with this guy TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #61
Interesting that Root reached out to the defense in order to help them MrScorpio Jul 2013 #44
I think so, and as a jury person, if my job is to be a critical thinker, when he Ninga Jul 2013 #50
The payment he is received may be free advertising for avebury Jul 2013 #54
Of course... Ninga Jul 2013 #59
Bingo! MrScorpio Jul 2013 #60
I would like to get Root to admit that a person avebury Jul 2013 #51
I vote for you to question Root...good thinking! Nt Ninga Jul 2013 #52
"totally incapable of defending himself physically" ??? Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #238
Testimony on Zimmerman's physical ability came from his avebury Jul 2013 #248
And the trainer said that Zimmy was completely incapable of defending himself? Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #249
pretty much said he is "soft" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #253
Yup. Doesn't even know how to throw a punch. nt avebury Jul 2013 #261
and even without MMA training, TM knows how to punch. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #264
So wait, Mr Good talked to the defense attorneys or just the defenses ME?! thx in advance uponit7771 Jul 2013 #53
Mr Goode violated the sequester order by talking to the ME, and before he testified...the other Ninga Jul 2013 #58
Mr. Goode also talked to Daniel Schumaker, consulted on the animation... Spazito Jul 2013 #64
Freakin wow!! What usually happens when soemone does this? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #65
I am not sure, the Judge will take this up for sure... Spazito Jul 2013 #73
just got the answer to the question I posed you above.. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #276
I am hoping Florida's Sunshine Laws will apply to any hearing on this... Spazito Jul 2013 #286
I guess this witness thinks everyone should have the rights of a LEO... Spazito Jul 2013 #57
I would say it calls attention to anyone being able to protect themselves, which LEO's do. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #63
Yes, I can see why you would think so... Spazito Jul 2013 #71
and most LEO's will give you a ticket for not wearing your seat belt while they are not wearing HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #77
LOL, great shift of topic... Spazito Jul 2013 #85
I should have worded it differently then, I didn't mean what you think I meant. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #91
LEOs have the right to defend themselves... Spazito Jul 2013 #114
but he has the right to defend himself if he feels his life is in danger, no? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #121
Everyone has the right to defend themselves if they feel their life is in danger... Spazito Jul 2013 #131
I'm saying that people have the right to defend themselves. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #137
did Trayvon Martin have a right to defend himself from a man with a gun? CitizenLeft Jul 2013 #325
yes. he just didn't do it well enough. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #327
does that include TM? frylock Jul 2013 #337
as I have stated before, yes. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #338
LEOs don't use seat belts because they have to exit the vehicle quickly. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #308
ok forget about seat belts. what about officers who drink and drive or let their "buddies" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #311
Zimmerman - the wannabe cop is avebury Jul 2013 #76
and yours is so believable! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #79
It is known that Zimmerman did make a phone call (remember there is avebury Jul 2013 #88
and why has that information not come out about who was called? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #93
anyone does have a right to protect themselves. magical thyme Jul 2013 #140
which he did, did he not? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #142
we don't know for a fact what happened... magical thyme Jul 2013 #175
the gun would have to be right in from of his nose for the kickback to cause damage to the nose. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #179
And Martin may have been wrestling with Zimmerman after Z pulled his gun magical thyme Jul 2013 #196
have you ever fired a handgun before? do you realize what it would look like holding a gun right in HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #200
1. No. 2. Have you ever fired a gun while somebody had their hands over yours and was wrestling with magical thyme Jul 2013 #207
1. that answers a lot, especially how you feel about self-defense with a gun. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #211
My understanding is it takes only one finger to pull a trigger. Even toddlers seem to be offing magical thyme Jul 2013 #229
you are saying that Z would pull the gun all the way to his nice before he fires? yeah he can do it HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #233
when 2 people are wrestling for a single object, nobody has complete control over where it is magical thyme Jul 2013 #257
but Z ended up feeling his life was threatened and did what he felt he needed. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #260
it's not enough to claim to feel threatened. it must be reasonable to feel threatened. affirmative magical thyme Jul 2013 #267
maybe not enough for your life to feel threatened, but maybe it was for him. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #273
And he was friggin wrong then, and when he struck out after unarmed, innocent kid. Hoyt Jul 2013 #297
so you can tell in different situations when a person should fear for their life and when they HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #305
I can tell that your buddy Zimmerman did not give a damn about Martin. Hoyt Jul 2013 #368
LEO "rights???" HUH Duckwraps Jul 2013 #81
LEOs are given authority to act in ways the public are not... Spazito Jul 2013 #98
LEO's have powers. Citizens have rights. Duckwraps Jul 2013 #181
Actually, they have a 'legal authority' the public does not... Spazito Jul 2013 #185
LEO's don't have any different "rights" than the average citizen does, premium Jul 2013 #90
LEOs do have the authority to act in ways the public cannot... Spazito Jul 2013 #122
Legal authority would be the correct term, premium Jul 2013 #126
So many here don't understand the difference between rights .... oldhippie Jul 2013 #208
He claims that, by his training and experience, he can look at the different testimonies... GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #62
Zimmerman had "no prowess" as a fighter Generic Other Jul 2013 #67
Wow, a defense witness made-to-order Lisa D Jul 2013 #72
Yeah total bs Just Saying Jul 2013 #74
And neither were any of us, premium Jul 2013 #112
We're not testifying on court. N/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #115
So? premium Jul 2013 #139
but this is so hard for people to see. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #141
Oh come on Just Saying Jul 2013 #149
but people on a message board and talking about how expert witnesses are flat out wrong. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #153
Experts are never wrong? Just Saying Jul 2013 #160
don't have a problem at all. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #165
Experts are often wrong, premium Jul 2013 #166
So we agree on one thing. n/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #176
We probably agree on a lot of things, premium Jul 2013 #187
Here we go again with this crap that I'm defending Zimmerman. premium Jul 2013 #161
We're all posting theories based on what we see. Just Saying Jul 2013 #171
I've said several times that I'm a retired FLEO, premium Jul 2013 #182
I think it's your attitude that leads to my perceptions. Just Saying Jul 2013 #205
I can only speak for myself Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #298
Long winded to the point of boring katmondoo Jul 2013 #68
Is this guy saying that TM could have handled Z? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #69
Can you PLEASE find another thread to clutter up? WCLinolVir Jul 2013 #380
No I cannot. thank you for trying though. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #381
Wait, the guy who trained MMA for a year has LESS prowess than the person who didn't? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #70
Zimmerman should demand a refund.. that would be 4-6 hours a week for chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #78
OH NO! he said something you done believe so it must be wrong! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #80
So if I took boxing lessons 2-3 a week for a year, I can't chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #84
I don't know if you remembered what you learned, I don't know what you can use what you learned. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #87
It certainly doesn't but a jury will be asking themselves that someone chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #94
Anything is possible. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #101
That goes without saying, so the issue is PROBABILITY not possibility because possibility is a given uponit7771 Jul 2013 #108
exactly. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #110
So it is MORE probbable hat the person with a years worth of boxing training has the advantage over uponit7771 Jul 2013 #125
I think you mean MMA, not boxing... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #127
Facts are facts regardless of whether you believe them or not. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE - ZIMMERMAN uponit7771 Jul 2013 #130
but not boxing. so because Z had MMA training, he should be able to beat anyone up without a gun? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #136
I could care less, he had almost a years worth of MMA TM did NOT uponit7771 Jul 2013 #144
I could care less that Z had the training. Does this mean that TM was doomed because of HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #150
Most LIKELY he would be...the person with almost a years worth of training has MORE advantange than uponit7771 Jul 2013 #157
For every occasion? I don't buy it. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #164
Z had nearly a year of regular MMA training, was 40 pounds bigger, 10 years older and had a gun... magical thyme Jul 2013 #154
I thought I heard the expert say that age doesn't matter. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #158
40 pounds bigger can be 40 pounds more muscle magical thyme Jul 2013 #188
If you say so. to you Z was the Hulk and TM is an ant. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #190
Not to that extreme, but yes. Z had ~40 pounds more muscle mass, more life experience, and a gun. nt magical thyme Jul 2013 #201
So every time Z win because he had 40lbs on his and had some MMA experience, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #203
IIRC, he "won" his domestic violence assaults, when he picked on somebody smaller, but "lost" his magical thyme Jul 2013 #213
so change the topic. I see. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #216
I didn't change the topic. You wrote "Z always win," I wrote when he did or didn't win. also, n/t magical thyme Jul 2013 #242
so lets convict him of murder already, because of his past!!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #245
BOOM!!! Really good point uponit7771 Jul 2013 #241
MMA has boxing in it Finnmccool Jul 2013 #330
right but MMA is not boxing, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #332
Not just boxing it has wrestling Finnmccool Jul 2013 #344
right, but MMA is not boxing. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #345
It's not the standard in this case. If it were there would never be any trials. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #117
All things being equal so take all variants out. NO CREDIBLE person can say the guy with 1 year of uponit7771 Jul 2013 #95
I would imagine that TM wrestled around with his friends and maybe even been in a scrum. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #104
Please link and quote the evidence that TM "wrestled" with his friends?! tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #128
haha omg. I said "I WOULD IMAGINE" not that I read somewhere that he did. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #134
That's what Z Defenders want people to believe, it's assinine at best and racial in context uponit7771 Jul 2013 #89
who said "a black guy is the better athlete vs boxer"?? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #97
Strawman noted, I never said anyone did. Anything else? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #102
so who are you calling a boxer then? I wasn't aware either TM or Z was a boxer? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #106
The person who had nearly a year of boxing traing uponit7771 Jul 2013 #120
do you mean Mixed Martial Arts or boxing? Two completely different things...... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #124
MMA includes boxing...nice try...come on dude, this is getting silly uponit7771 Jul 2013 #133
well then why do you only focus on the boxing aspect? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #138
because the other guy had NO TRAINING IN BOXING!! My Goodnes, this isn't hard uponit7771 Jul 2013 #145
and that means EVERYTHING! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #148
When it comes to common sense logic it means a lot. Common sense - the guy who trained MMA uponit7771 Jul 2013 #155
I think you are assuming things... Just because you had MMA classes doesnt make you better than HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #162
MMA is a full contact combat sport. It's not "completely different" from boxing. Nine Jul 2013 #296
Of course you can. Just Saying Jul 2013 #92
...REALLY good point and Z wasn't fat like he is now uponit7771 Jul 2013 #99
Some people are Chuck Norris, some are PeeWee Herman Generic Other Jul 2013 #105
what's wrong with Pee Wee Herman????? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #113
He slandered Pee Wee Generic Other Jul 2013 #167
++++ JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #279
Prosecutor objected to question about Leo discharging firearm Just Saying Jul 2013 #82
Is Root serious! avebury Jul 2013 #83
Accidents. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #100
I don't think that there is really such think avebury Jul 2013 #111
So you've missed all the news reports of YOUNG CHILDREN shooting someone or themselves? WinkyDink Jul 2013 #119
Those incidents are not accidents but due to the gross avebury Jul 2013 #123
Please refer to your first post: WinkyDink Jul 2013 #132
One might make the point that a gun owner who is avebury Jul 2013 #147
but nobody has claimed an accidental shooting here Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #303
not if they felt their life was in danger. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #107
NBC not working for me; watching the FL link. Am I supposed to like this witness? I don't. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #96
I had the same problem.. FL link works just fine. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #109
In your opinion. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #118
Yes, expressing my opinion. This man seems to ME to be advocating a fully-armed citizenry. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #193
I have to disagree. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #194
And I thought the gym owner was arrogant... Saturday Jul 2013 #116
I think this testimony about the holster Just Saying Jul 2013 #129
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #135
Prosecution just blew this guy out of the water Marrah_G Jul 2013 #143
lost feed, what happened? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #146
Basically that the guy is testifying to market his consulting company Marrah_G Jul 2013 #151
First trial his company has testified at Generic Other Jul 2013 #169
"did you ask Zimmerman if he was afraid when he got out of the car" chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #152
the prosecution said the same thing about the ME yesterday. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #156
They are starting to sound like hacks because they didn't look at all the evidence and the ... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #159
Didn't they explain why certain evidence wasn't needed. I seem to remember that. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #163
so should experts who testify not be paid at all and do it out of the goodness of their heart? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #174
HLN muted a bunch of the opening questions on the cross of Root pokerfan Jul 2013 #244
That would be references to fucking punks and assholes Marrah_G Jul 2013 #263
That's pretty much what I assumed pokerfan Jul 2013 #288
On cross, Root is coming across like avebury Jul 2013 #168
Hmm, I haven't noticed that.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #170
PA is swinging him around by the shorthairs. Ninga Jul 2013 #173
LIKE WHOA!!! POINT OUT THE GUN WAS ON HIS BUTT CHEEK NOT HIS FRONT HIP!!!!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #177
Root is starting to sink fast! avebury Jul 2013 #178
He's a PA witness right now!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #180
"PA"? WinkyDink Jul 2013 #197
preosecuting attorney uponit7771 Jul 2013 #219
Costner is destroying Z's whole shooting account, the defense is on its feet uponit7771 Jul 2013 #183
Jury reaction avebury Jul 2013 #198
appreciate you posting these twitters, please keep it up Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #309
He dances with wolves! WinkyDink Jul 2013 #199
Is this a prosecution witness? bravenak Jul 2013 #184
defense just fired the person who took the call when Root phoned them and offered his services chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #204
LOL! Spazito Jul 2013 #209
This guy is spending the day advertising his services. bravenak Jul 2013 #210
LOL. I couldn't get the lighting correct because I didn't take into consideration chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #186
lofl!! Good catch uponit7771 Jul 2013 #189
Wow! The questions with the dummy were perfect! Just Saying Jul 2013 #191
Yep, the cross of this 'expert' is excellent... Spazito Jul 2013 #195
If TM had happened to reach toward where the gun was, Z(in the heat of the moment) thought that HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #215
Are you watching the trial? Just Saying Jul 2013 #223
Yes I am watching it. And I heard him say that Z could have gotten to his gun in his holster. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #226
Yes but the prosecution is showing he's full of crap. Just Saying Jul 2013 #232
almost as impossible for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of second degree... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #236
Now you're changing the subject. N/t Just Saying Jul 2013 #237
;) HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #240
Zimmerman is a little more animated today no? tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #192
"Anyone looking down the barrel of a gun would be screaming for help." JimDandy Jul 2013 #202
Costner is throwing doors, hopefully the PA saved him and the other guy for last uponit7771 Jul 2013 #206
Costner made a great point - Zimmerman avebury Jul 2013 #212
Good to hear this point. FarPoint Jul 2013 #272
You hear so many stories in the news these days of avebury Jul 2013 #306
Many missed questions Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #214
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #217
so you can call Z a liar, but show me how he is a liar. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #218
Sure Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #247
why not holster your weapon if the person is not moving anymore? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #251
Exactly Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #280
ehh.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #284
"Can I borrow your doll for a moment?" YarnAddict Jul 2013 #220
LOL! "Somehow he got to hsi weapon" as if it's not important uponit7771 Jul 2013 #221
+1 Just Saying Jul 2013 #228
"How the gun got into Z's hand is moot" HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #222
Yeah, that's laughable to me too....lol uponit7771 Jul 2013 #231
well ill take the experts claims over yours. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #234
Handgun positioning and physics now what?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #235
in relation to...? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #239
relating to being a smart ass,...no really...Root sounds like a hack and now his testimony suonds uponit7771 Jul 2013 #246
so Z was able to move TM's leg away to grab the gun from his side. easily done. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #250
..according to Z it wasn't on his side...see, that's why it's important to show HOW he got his gun uponit7771 Jul 2013 #254
then refresh my memory. where was it in Z's statement? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #256
Root should be able to tell you.... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #266
then I guess it doesnt matter because he believe how Z got the gun in his hand is moot. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #271
Point being root is a hack, if root was TRULY worried about the TRUTH he would've taken both sides.. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #282
Root is saying that by what he has seen and heard, that is what he believes. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #287
This expert is wrong about the gun. Just Saying Jul 2013 #292
ill believe that when it is proven in court. until then I will take it as your opinion. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #299
How about your opinion Just Saying Jul 2013 #304
in my opinion Z got the gun after TM was beating him and shot him because he was being hit. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #310
Your opinion is based on what Zimmerman told police. Just Saying Jul 2013 #319
so TM was sittin on Z to where Z was not able to move his arms? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #324
the gun was not holstered on GZ's side frylock Jul 2013 #358
so where was the gun then the whole time this was going on? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #360
in my opinion? the gun was in GZ's hands.. frylock Jul 2013 #363
so when you tell me that the gun wsa not holstered, that is what you believe but you have HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #364
that is correct.. frylock Jul 2013 #367
yet you take this "expert's" and GZ's word as gospel.. frylock Jul 2013 #356
I take the experts words, not someone on a message board.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #362
this guy is a self-proclaimed "expert" at his first trial.. frylock Jul 2013 #373
ok master shake HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #382
I am amused by his avatar combined with his posts. uppityperson Jul 2013 #372
his jedi mind tricks aren't working.. frylock Jul 2013 #378
haha good one!!! I cant stop laughing! thanks for that!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #384
good for you. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #383
He OVERTLY didn't hear and see all the information from both sides = hack uponit7771 Jul 2013 #294
did you hear him explain why? or are you ignoring that? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #300
Yes, because he's a hack... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #313
so you are picking and choosing who you are willing to believe and who not to believe. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #316
what the fuck do you think you're doing? frylock Jul 2013 #359
those are some harsh words.. I don't even know what you are talking about. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #361
you don't seem to know fuckall frylock Jul 2013 #365
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #366
with pleasure! frylock Jul 2013 #370
Well I hope when people get fucked that it's pleasurable! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #376
His post was hidden. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #386
i didn't alert. i like those posts to stand on their own merit.. frylock Jul 2013 #387
I don't have time to watch but try to read these threads. grantcart Jul 2013 #224
quick answer Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #317
good case for manslaughter? grantcart Jul 2013 #322
my opinion, absolutely Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #328
does self defense have to be proven or..... justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #336
I don't think the defense has a convincing case Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #341
Oh i didn't mean to say that it was convincing justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #350
OK I see what you mean. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #353
me too. The defense shennanigans are just too painful to watch. grantcart Jul 2013 #369
of all the public trials in the news, this is the only one that has captivated me in this way Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #374
you can watch the whole trial on YouTube TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #388
O'Mara is asking 'is it possible' on so many things it is becoming laughable... Spazito Jul 2013 #225
On re-cross - This would be the time to ask that, avebury Jul 2013 #227
The 10th grade kid has MORE fighting abilities than the 200lb, fit, MMA trained grown man! REALLY?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #230
not in every case, but in some cases... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #243
...it's kind of weak to continue to proffer POSSIBILITIES when those go without saying no? I mean it uponit7771 Jul 2013 #252
doesn't the evidence of Z's face show that TM was on top of him and hitting him? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #255
No, especially since GZ had a bloody head and TM had no blood on his hands. NONE of Z's DNA.... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #265
because blood gushes everywhere as soon as someone is hit so TM should be covered, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #268
No, after 25 - 50 hits on his face and head...unless you want to proffer that after all that hitting uponit7771 Jul 2013 #275
That is quite possible ... ThePhilosopher04 Jul 2013 #290
REALLY GOOD Point!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #291
then I expect the prosecution to show that. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #293
Z probably got his head injuries libodem Jul 2013 #301
haha oh wow. thank you for that!!!! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #307
Welcome libodem Jul 2013 #323
uuuuuuhh .......... no. polly7 Jul 2013 #278
how did Z get those boo-boos then? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #283
AGAIN...his own gun, it had GZ's DNA on it....NOT tms hands... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #285
oh yeah, TM did nothing to Z and Z did everything to himself. that's right.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #289
No, TM scared Z by being a young black man...that scares a lot of Z types and they react negatively uponit7771 Jul 2013 #295
if only you could prove that in court. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #302
I'm being facetious, it doesn't look like Z had any racial animus towards blacks just sounds like he uponit7771 Jul 2013 #312
so he must be a racist, right. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #314
Which mzmolly Jul 2013 #259
cases you don't know about that I have witnessed personally. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #262
How many MMA trained fighters mzmolly Jul 2013 #315
so Z is now a trained MMA fighter? even though his trainer said he wasn't that great? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #318
A badly trained MMA fighter beats a person with no training at all....TM wasn't a welter weight ... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #321
how do you know TM hasnt been in a fight to give him some street training? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #326
..the same way I know Trayvon is Superman! Again, you're proffering possibilities its ...come on uponit7771 Jul 2013 #329
the same way you know Z is guilty and that TM was a saint. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #333
How do you know Zimmerman didn't have an assault charge mzmolly Jul 2013 #346
Why did Zimmerman forget he had mzmolly Jul 2013 #339
he wasn't trained well enough. Like other here have said, should have gotten his money back. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #340
Laughable. mzmolly Jul 2013 #342
good to know you have a sense of humor? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #343
Good to know you're mzmolly Jul 2013 #348
;) HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #349
One would hope after a year of training... mzmolly Jul 2013 #334
you think that the shitty trainer could get anyone to be a trained MMA fighter in a year? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #335
I think after a year of training you learn mzmolly Jul 2013 #351
I would think you are right if someone had a competent trainer. I wouldnt say that Z had a competent HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #355
Did he need training to hit a cop and a former fiance - mzmolly Jul 2013 #371
+1, that are 150ish lbs and in the 10th grade !!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #320
apparently you need to get out more.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #331
Knock Knock just never seems to learn does he? nt avebury Jul 2013 #347
whoa!!! Kali Jul 2013 #352
How can anyone be "incapable of self defense" Finnmccool Jul 2013 #357
When it comes to the real world, Zimmerman is hardly avebury Jul 2013 #375
Guy devestating out of the gate on recross. stranger81 Jul 2013 #377
Oh boy, its gonna get messy... n/t tom_kelly Jul 2013 #379
The defense rests. Lisa D Jul 2013 #385

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
1. The defense did have the phone material, it had been given to them in a 'bin file'...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:54 AM
Jul 2013

in February. The defense was whining that the data wasn't sorted and identified for them by the State so they didn't find it until later during an earlier hearing on this where the defense wanted sanctions against the State for a discovery violation.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
3. The state did their job when they
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:58 AM
Jul 2013

turned the information over to the defense in the BIN file. It is NOT the state's job to do the defense's job. The defense is crazy if they think that can cite the state for a discovery violation.

Talk about a couple of whinny crybabies.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
7. do you know what is meant by a bin file?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:10 AM
Jul 2013

Not that it really matters, but I was wondering if they were referring to something like a plastic container or if BIN was an acronym for something or what.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
13. It is like a computer file. I imagine they
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:16 AM
Jul 2013

copied what they found on the phone and gave it to the defense. Both sides would have had had to have their experts crack any type of password necessary to actually tell what was on the phone.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
15. Yes, they gave the defense what they had and basically made them do
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:18 AM
Jul 2013

what the prosecution had to do....convert it.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
18. thanks!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:20 AM
Jul 2013

Oh dear, I thought they were talking about a bin like a plastic container with a bunch of papers in it or something.

Ok, now I get it.

Jim__

(14,083 posts)
17. I think they're referring to a binary file.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:20 AM
Jul 2013

If you open a binary file, it won't appear as text, images, etc - you have to use a program to read/translate it into text, images, etc.

Evergreen Emerald

(13,069 posts)
4. The defense seems to be playing games.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:06 AM
Jul 2013

They accuse the state of violations, when they indeed had the information.

They don't show up for depositions and then argue that the court will deny the civil rights of Zimmerman because he did not have the opportunity to cross the witness.

They are told to be prepared for a hearing in the morning and they come to court unprepared complaining that the trial is too long, they did not have time to prepare.

And then, last night they complained that court was starting too early.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
5. Yep, and adding to that the defense seems to have plenty of time for press...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jul 2013

conferences and media appearances yet whine they don't have enough time to get their work done. It is pathetic.

Lisa D

(1,532 posts)
8. It's a delay tactic.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:10 AM
Jul 2013

They're hoping that the longer the jury is sequestered, the more chance that they'll immediately acquit because they're just tired of it all.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
9. I saw that video and was gobsmacked
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:11 AM
Jul 2013

I worked for non-profits and one of the first things I learned was never say you can't do something. You find a way and you do it because it's your job to do so. The fact that they were complaining about the long hours and not having time for preparation just struck me as really unprofessional. They chose this profession and this case, if they can't handle the long hours and the work that goes into it, that's their problem, not the court or the State's.

Evergreen Emerald

(13,069 posts)
22. I thought the same thing.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:24 AM
Jul 2013

I have never heard of an attorney complaining about the work load to the court. Shameful.

And, of course can you imagine what they are getting paid for their long hours!?

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
66. The complaining defense attorney
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:32 AM
Jul 2013

was the same one who had time to take a photo of himself eating vanilla ice cream cones in a limo with his adult daughters in celebration of supposedly besting in court Rachel Jeantel, who they implied was stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
49. Trying to get a declaration of mis-trial?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:11 AM
Jul 2013


The Prosecutor's office seems like it's trying its level best to lose, and the Defense seems like it just wants to GTF out of there.
Not at all sure how that stuff works but it sure looks like they're trying to punt on this entire spectacle.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
6. Is the prosecution expected to call any of Martin's friends in rebuttal to
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jul 2013

say that is Martin's voice on the tape?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
20. Any witnesses the prosecution wanted to put on the stand had to be called during their phase of the
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:24 AM
Jul 2013

trial. All they can do WRT to the testimony of the defense witnesses is impeach that testimony or attack the credibility of the witness.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
23. The State has the right to put on a rebuttal case after the defense rests....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:26 AM
Jul 2013

at that time they can call witnesses to rebut testimony put forward by the defense.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
12. Judge Nelson has denied the defense re the animation and the...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:15 AM
Jul 2013

email and photos evidence. The defense has been given the right to use the animation in their closing arguments if they choose but it is not an exhibit the jury will have during deliberations. Kudos to the Judge.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
75. Whaaaa? That's not good to allow it in closing, though,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:40 AM
Jul 2013

because the posecution can't question the animators who made it or anything about where the info came from for the positioning of the cartoon Zimmerman and Trayvon figures.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
86. they can only use it to illustrate evidence that is already admitted
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jul 2013

so I take that to mean they can't use the entire thing, just parts of it that match verbal testimony and evidence.

where Zimmerman told the police "X" they can show "X."

What bothers me is that means they can use animation of Martin punching Zimmerman, just because Zimmerman claimed it.

It won't be given to the jury to review after the Defenses summary, either. But they will get that one view of it.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
172. The State, having the final say through their rebuttal closing argument after the defense...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:27 AM
Jul 2013

gives their closing argument, will address this I have no doubt. During the hearing on the admissibility of the animation as an exhibit, the State said they would not argue against the defense using it in their closing argument which tells me they will be prepared to rebut it.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
14. Judge ruled. Cartoon can't be used as evidence. TM's phone stuff can't be used.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:17 AM
Jul 2013

The cartoon can be used as a demonstation but not as evidence.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
30. Could this end up being grounds for appeal?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:39 AM
Jul 2013

From what I've been reading, Florida case law supports electronic messages being used as evidence.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
37. they weren't admitted because they weren't authenticated
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:54 AM
Jul 2013

The judge in the hearing read out the law about authentication, and they can't be admitted if they aren't. Defense whined that they didn't have the time to authenticate them though they've had them since February.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
27. If nothing else, it will showcase
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:34 AM
Jul 2013

someone who was trained (Root) with someone who wasn't (Zimmerman)

He also noted that "communication and deescalation" was key proponent of defense.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
28. I am looking forward to prosecution asking what the procedure is
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:37 AM
Jul 2013

when officers are told not to pursue when told to hold back.

Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #28)

Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #29)

avebury

(10,952 posts)
31. I agree, particularly if the PA
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:42 AM
Jul 2013

gets into should a non-LEO be tracking and confronting an unknown person in the dark. The PA has a lot of ways to go after this testimony.

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
48. I agree...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:10 AM
Jul 2013

I hope PA asks if Z shouldn't have just stayed in his truck. And if police officers have to be trained and retrained on this stuff......what about someone like Z walking around with a firearm. Gives me chills.

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
34. Ok, I imagine I'm on the jury, I am doing my best, but my mind wanders as I wonder
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:51 AM
Jul 2013

why are they wasting my time......

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
35. Zimmerman's wife has yet to testify...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:53 AM
Jul 2013

I wonder if she will given she has been charged with perjury in relation to this case. She was listed on the defense's witness list and was deposed by the State against the protestations by the defense. If she doesn't testify, will it be a glaring question in the juror's minds as to why she didn't testify in support of her husband?

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
41. Maybe defense thinks that all the blah blah blah will make the jury forget she even exists.......nt
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:58 AM
Jul 2013

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
46. They can hope but it won't happen...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
Jul 2013

the jurors are all women, most of whom are married I believe so the absence of her testimony will be noticed by them, leaving a question mark as to why in their minds.

Maybe the defense is planning to have her testify as their last witness, I guess we will see soon enough.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
43. I would think the jury is already been wondering
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jul 2013

why they didn't call his wife to authenticate his voice. I found that really odd. Since they didn't put her up on the stand for that I'm guessing they don't want her anywhere near the stand for anything because of the perjury.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
47. Yep, that is my thinking as well...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:07 AM
Jul 2013

I know they wanted the Judge to prohibit the State from deposing her and said, at that time, they weren't necessarily going to call her which caught my attention. They lost that whine and Shellie Zimmerman was deposed. If they rest without calling her, I can't see that absence not leaving a glaring question in the minds of the jurors as to why she didn't support her husband.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
258. and if they do call her,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:31 PM
Jul 2013

the jury will hear testimony in favor of Zimmerman
from a woman who has no problem lying under oath?


Spazito

(50,453 posts)
281. The defense is between a rock and a hard place due to the actions of their client and...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:48 PM
Jul 2013

his wife, they know there is a real risk in calling upon her to testify but they also know full well a jury is likely to wonder why she didn't take the stand in support of her husband. Given the jurors will see her testimony as biased and one of self-interest, I think they may have calculated the lesser risk is to not have her testify but the defense hasn't rested yet so it could still happen.

Response to Spazito (Reply #35)

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
36. How will the judge handle the defense witness that violated the sequester order
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:53 AM
Jul 2013

from her?

Did she deal with it yet?

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
40. There were two witnesses who violated their sequestration order....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:56 AM
Jul 2013

from what Judge Nelson said last night. She also said they would deal with it at 8:00 am but later changed the time for the start of court to 9:00 and only gave her rulings on the admissibility of the animation and the texts/photos on Trayvon's phone, nothing yet on the sequestration violations. Maybe this afternoon?

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
270. can you say more about this?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:39 PM
Jul 2013

I missed the whole morning and am trying to
catch up. I know the judge denied the phone
and the video but hadn't heard about these
witnesses.. ?

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
39. Oh I get it...this arms expert wants his five minutes in the spotlight....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:56 AM
Jul 2013

as he just stated that he reached out to the defense, not the defense seeking him out.....

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
45. I can't figure out what he's doing on the stand at all
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:02 AM
Jul 2013

Zimmerman wasn't trained as a cop, he isn't a cop and neither was Martin. What on earth is he there for?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
61. so far that's all I can see with this guy
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jul 2013

He sounds like he's doing an infomercial or a interview for a job.

I just can't figure out what on earth he has to do with this case.

Oh, now I get it. He's trying to explain away Zimmerman's multiple stories. Good grief.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
44. Interesting that Root reached out to the defense in order to help them
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jul 2013

Wouldn't that indicate that he's biased towards Z's side of the story to begin with?

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
50. I think so, and as a jury person, if my job is to be a critical thinker, when he
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:12 AM
Jul 2013

made it very clear, and sounded rather proud..it would definitely make me sit up and think he was biased.....wonder if he is getting paid as a "volunteer" witness?

avebury

(10,952 posts)
54. The payment he is received may be free advertising for
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:15 AM
Jul 2013

his private business. Maybe he is trying to develop a reputation as a defense witness. Free work today might result in a lot of paid work down the road. That is what I would be thinking. He is not doing this out of the goodness of his heart but out of self interest.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
60. Bingo!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jul 2013

I'm sure that any other person who may by charged in committing another Z. like shoot of another black kid would probably seek this ex-cop out as well.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
51. I would like to get Root to admit that a person
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:13 AM
Jul 2013

who is not an LEO, does not have LEO training and who is totally incapable of defending himself physically is acting without prudence when he tracked and confronted an unknown person, in the dark, in the rain. How could Root imagine that this situation would turn out good? Is this witness supporting vigilante activity?

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
238. "totally incapable of defending himself physically" ???
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:19 PM
Jul 2013

That doesn't square with all the threads and posts saying that Zimmy is a MMA expert, that he trained 3 times a week and is some sort of Brazilian jiu-jitsu master that outweighed Trayvon by 50 to 100 lbs.

Which is it?

Total wimp or Chuck Norris?

avebury

(10,952 posts)
248. Testimony on Zimmerman's physical ability came from his
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:23 PM
Jul 2013

trainer -------- who had to appear in court the next day on an assault charge.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
261. Yup. Doesn't even know how to throw a punch. nt
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:33 PM
Jul 2013

Apparently numerous hours in the gym may have helped him to lose weight but that was all he accomplished. He wasn't even allowed into the ring to box an opponent.

Edit to add - The trainer was clear in saying that Zimmerman was a very nice guy and he tried but he didn't succeed far in ability.

Ninga

(8,277 posts)
58. Mr Goode violated the sequester order by talking to the ME, and before he testified...the other
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:20 AM
Jul 2013

witness, cry-baby Donnelly, violated the sequester by sitting in the court room before he took the stand....

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
64. Mr. Goode also talked to Daniel Schumaker, consulted on the animation...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:31 AM
Jul 2013

while he was still under the sequestration order. The violation came to light yesterday during the hearing due to a question from the Judge to Schumaker. What was also made clear is that O'Mara was aware it had happened because he tried to argue with the Judge as to why it happened. Not a smart move on his part, imo.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
73. I am not sure, the Judge will take this up for sure...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:40 AM
Jul 2013

and there will be penalties of some sort, exactly what I don't know. The State may request a remedy for the situation, they would have the right. If the defense lawyers were involved, in any way, in these violations this could bring them before the bar.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
276. just got the answer to the question I posed you above..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:42 PM
Jul 2013

(I hadn't read far enough down in the thread)

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
286. I am hoping Florida's Sunshine Laws will apply to any hearing on this...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013

and it will be held in public, if so it should be very interesting on how it is resolved.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
57. I guess this witness thinks everyone should have the rights of a LEO...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:19 AM
Jul 2013

and can act as a LEO would which, I suspect, most LEOs would vehemently disagree with. This testimony puzzles me as it calls attention to the point that Zimmerman was a zealous cop wannabe which, one would think, is NOT a point the defense wants emphasized.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
63. I would say it calls attention to anyone being able to protect themselves, which LEO's do.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:30 AM
Jul 2013

I think you believe Z is a zealous cop wannabe.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
71. Yes, I can see why you would think so...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:34 AM
Jul 2013

I've read your previous posts. It is interesting, most LEOs I know detest cop wannabes because they make the job of LEOs harder when it comes to the public perception of what LEOs are like but, I guess, there are exceptions to the norm.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
77. and most LEO's will give you a ticket for not wearing your seat belt while they are not wearing
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:42 AM
Jul 2013

their own. So when cops are trustworthy and follow the law, then I will care whether they hate cop wannabes.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
85. LOL, great shift of topic...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jul 2013

poor attempt at a red herring. To refresh your memory, it was your post citing what LEOs thought, now you disparage LEOs, interesting.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
91. I should have worded it differently then, I didn't mean what you think I meant.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
Jul 2013

I meant that Z was defending him self, like LEO's would defend themselves.

do LEO's not have the right to defend themselves?

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
114. LEOs have the right to defend themselves...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:59 AM
Jul 2013

they also have commensurate responsibilities as to how they defend themselves. Zimmerman is not a LEO, just a cop wannabe, he doesn't have the same authority as a LEO in any way, shape or form.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
131. Everyone has the right to defend themselves if they feel their life is in danger...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:05 AM
Jul 2013

along with that right comes the responsibility to show lethal force was used as a last resort. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you saying Zimmerman is no different than a LEO in any way, has the same legal authority to act as a LEO even though he is not one?

displacedtexan

(15,696 posts)
308. LEOs don't use seat belts because they have to exit the vehicle quickly.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:06 PM
Jul 2013

Every TV procedural demonstrates this, and I've been observing LEOs to see if it's true. It appears to be so, except when they're driving down highways. At least, that's my observation. If you know the exact LEO rule regarding seat belt use, I'd love to learn it.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
311. ok forget about seat belts. what about officers who drink and drive or let their "buddies"
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

who drink and drive get off?

avebury

(10,952 posts)
76. Zimmerman - the wannabe cop is
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:41 AM
Jul 2013

exactly what has been pointed out in this trial. The application to be a cop, wanting to do ride-alongs, wanting to get into shape and clear up his credit, taking all those criminal justice classes, etc. He also headed up the Neighborhood Watch in a small development where he did not know the names of the streets and most of the home owners did not eve know who he was.

Anybody that is totally inept and incapbable of physically defending himself is dumber then a sack of rocks to follow any person in the dark in the rain as it will not turn out well. The only way Zimmerman would prevail in an altercation is with a gun. If you have not gone through LEO training, can't even throw a decent punch you have no business do what Zimmerman did that night. I totally believe that he already had the gun out when he approaced Martin and Martin was force to try to fight for his life. If Zimmerman broke his nose it could have been the result of Martin elbowing him in an effort to get away from him.

Remeber, Martin never did anything that night to warrant being followed and confonted. Zimmerman was the aggressor from the start. I would really like to know who he called right after the incident. It is known that he made a call and cell phone records would reveal that information. It leads you to believe that Zimmerman might have called either one of his ex LEO buddies or his Dad and make you wonder if they helped him to concoct a story to try to claim self defense. Zimmerman's story is so unbelievable.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
88. It is known that Zimmerman did make a phone call (remember there is
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jul 2013

a time gap?). It has never been release publicly who that call was made to. When you look at this guy's cadre of "friends" it does become believable that they would come to his aide and try to protect him. A cover up is not out of the realm of believability.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
93. and why has that information not come out about who was called?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:51 AM
Jul 2013

if its so important, why has it not been brought up?

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
140. anyone does have a right to protect themselves.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:08 AM
Jul 2013

That would, of course, include Martin's right to protect himself against an armed pursuer.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
175. we don't know for a fact what happened...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:27 AM
Jul 2013

According to two witnesses, there was a chase sequence. Jeanter heard the chase on the phone, which is corroborated by a neighbor who heard and/or saw a chase.

They could have rolled around, wrestling on the grass, which would explain why some neighbor's saw one on top and some saw the other on top.

Zimmerman could have slipped on the grass, fallen over backwards and banged his head against the sidewalk without any help from Martin.

He could have run into a wall in the dark and broken his own nose. Kickback from his gun held in an awkward position could have broken his nose -- this would explain the punctures on his nose, as well as his blood on his gun.

Or perhaps after Zimmerman pulled out his gun, Martin grabbed Zimmerman's hands and was wrestling with him, trying to point the gun away from himself. In such a wrestling match, the gun could have punched Zimmerman in the nose. That would explain the "downward motions" of Martin's hands as he desperately tried to keep from being shot. That would explain why Martin's dna was not found on the gun -- his hands would be on Zimmerman's hands or wrists or forearms, not the gun itself. That would also explain how Zimmerman thought his shot "went wide." And it certainly is what I would do in desperation, were somebody to pull out a gun at point blank range and aim it at me.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
179. the gun would have to be right in from of his nose for the kickback to cause damage to the nose.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:32 AM
Jul 2013

Z did not fire his gun right in front of his face. give me a break.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
196. And Martin may have been wrestling with Zimmerman after Z pulled his gun
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:47 AM
Jul 2013

as I wrote above, if Z pulled his gun and aimed it right at Martin, Martin's last chance at life may well have been to try to get the gun aimed in a different direction by grabbing Zimmerman's hands or wrists or forearms. In such a scenario, with Z trying to aim the gun in one direction, and the Martin trying to wrestle that gun in some other direction, it could well have ended up right in front of Zimmerman's face when he fired it.

Give yourself a break. I don't owe you one and have no intention of giving any unearned breaks.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
200. have you ever fired a handgun before? do you realize what it would look like holding a gun right in
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:49 AM
Jul 2013

front of your nose and fire it? you would not have the best grip of the gun at that point. but maybe Z did because he was an MMA trainer.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
207. 1. No. 2. Have you ever fired a gun while somebody had their hands over yours and was wrestling with
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:53 AM
Jul 2013

you for it?

I'm willing to bet no. Otherwise you wouldn't be here defending Zimmerman.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
211. 1. that answers a lot, especially how you feel about self-defense with a gun.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:56 AM
Jul 2013

2. no I have not, but I know damn well you wouldn't have the gun in front of your nose when you fire it.

How exactly would Z have fired the gun in front of his nose to get the wounds with TM's hands on his? You just said that that might have happened, did you not?

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
229. My understanding is it takes only one finger to pull a trigger. Even toddlers seem to be offing
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
Jul 2013

themselves these days right and left. People aim guns right into their own faces and shoot themselves all the time; my understanding is you put it in your mouth and aim upward toward the soft palate. If a toddler can point a gun at his or her own head and pull the trigger, then I expect Zimmerman can hold a gun in front of his face pointing away from himself and pull the trigger.

As to how I feel about self-defense with a gun, I expect a gun to be a last resort, and as last resort, I mean you don't go chasing after somebody walking down the street that you decide looks "suspicious" because you're tired of those "fucking goons" always getting away, get into a confrontation and when you find yourself on the losing end of things, pull out your gun and shoot them.

Zimmerman deliberately put himself into situation. He forced Martin into a fight for his life. He ignored his instructions as a neighborhood watch. He ignored the suggestion of the 911 operator. He ignored two opportunities to identify himself to Martin. He precipitated the confrontation. Zimmerman was looking for trouble; Martin was looking to get home and finish watching the game with his little brother. Imho, Zimmerman doesn't now get to claim self defense.

As it happens, my plan is when I sell my current home, I will get training and a gun because I live in a very rural area and plan to be even more rural. It takes a good 30 minutes for our part-time police to show up and last year a neighbor held a would-be burglar caught trying to climb in a window at gunpoint for that 30 minutes. I have had enough scary incidents in the past here to know I will be on my own and considered an easy target. But I don't expect to go hunting any "fucking goons" now or ever.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
233. you are saying that Z would pull the gun all the way to his nice before he fires? yeah he can do it
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:16 PM
Jul 2013

but it would be stupid to do so, and not very likely with TM's hands around.


Gun is the last resort. when someone is on top of you hitting you, if you feel this is last resort then you use it. And YOU cant determine if that person felt it was last resort or not.

TM was looking to get home but decided to beat up Z for following him, which made Z use self-defense.

well good for you.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
257. when 2 people are wrestling for a single object, nobody has complete control over where it is
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:30 PM
Jul 2013

at any moment in time. And Z could have pulled the trigger by reflexive action. But I think you already know that.

Have you ever been followed by a stranger in a car? Because I have, and I can tell you when it became clear he was following me, I made a point of *not* leading him to my home. In fact, when I was no longer able to elude him, I made a point of confronting him.

My situation ended differently only because it turned out the idiot who scared me half to death thought I was somebody else, and when I confronted him, he gunned out of there so fast he probably left half his tires behind.

Zimmerman chased Martin to ground and when he caught up with him, Martin was forced to fight for his life. Martin had a right to self-defense. Zimmerman provoked the entire situation. Zimmerman had multiple opportunities to de-escalate the situation that he initiated, and he instead chose to escalate the situation.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
267. it's not enough to claim to feel threatened. it must be reasonable to feel threatened. affirmative
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:38 PM
Jul 2013

defense required to justify killing.

and I must go walk my dogs before they melt down.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
273. maybe not enough for your life to feel threatened, but maybe it was for him.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jul 2013

who are you to tell someone if they feel threatened or not?

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
305. so you can tell in different situations when a person should fear for their life and when they
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:05 PM
Jul 2013

shouldn't?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
368. I can tell that your buddy Zimmerman did not give a damn about Martin.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:13 PM
Jul 2013

And besides, legal eagle, it's not whether bigot boy was afraid, it's a "reasonable person." Bigot boy and his gun, weren't reasonably afraid.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
98. LEOs are given authority to act in ways the public are not...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:53 AM
Jul 2013

those are commensurate with their responsibilities as well. Using the word "rights" was a poor choice on my part I readily admit, I should have used 'legal authority' instead.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
185. Actually, they have a 'legal authority' the public does not...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:38 AM
Jul 2013

if you read further down you will see I corrected my reference from "rights" to 'legal authority.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
90. LEO's don't have any different "rights" than the average citizen does,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
Jul 2013

we have procedures, rules and regulations, codes of conduct, which are not rights.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
122. LEOs do have the authority to act in ways the public cannot...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:01 AM
Jul 2013

as stated in my post to another poster, my choice of "rights" was poor, I should have used 'legal authority'.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
208. So many here don't understand the difference between rights ....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:54 AM
Jul 2013

.... and powers. That is sad on what is supposed to be a political discussion board.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
62. He claims that, by his training and experience, he can look at the different testimonies...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:25 AM
Jul 2013

...including Z's different accounts and create an accurate composite picture of what happened and how Z was perceiving events.

Lisa D

(1,532 posts)
72. Wow, a defense witness made-to-order
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
Jul 2013

So he can divine the operation of Zimmerman's mind just by listening to all the different stories and deciding which one works best for the defense case

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
112. And neither were any of us,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:58 AM
Jul 2013

yet, plenty of people here seem to think they know exactly what happened that night, how is that any different from this witness?

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
139. So?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:07 AM
Jul 2013

His theory is just as valid as anyone else's, and, as you said, he wasn't there that night, and neither was anyone here there that night, so all the scenario's put forth here are bullshit also.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
149. Oh come on
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:12 AM
Jul 2013

I think you're being intentionally thick in your zeal to defend Zimmerman.

People on a message board discussing a case is vastly different than an expert witness testifying in court.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
153. but people on a message board and talking about how expert witnesses are flat out wrong.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

like they know any better? But oh my, they disagree with the expert so he must be wrong. those are comments I have read.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
160. Experts are never wrong?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:18 AM
Jul 2013

Besides its the type of questions he's being asked like someone else's mindset when they fire a gun. How can anyone answer that? The line of questioning is crap which is why the judge blocked so much before they even started with this witness.

If you don't like people discussing the trial, questioning the validity of questions and the like then you're in the wrong place.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
187. We probably agree on a lot of things,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:39 AM
Jul 2013

including certain aspects of this case, what I don't agree on is your accusation that I'm a Zimmerman defender.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
161. Here we go again with this crap that I'm defending Zimmerman.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:19 AM
Jul 2013

Show me one post where I defended Zimmerman's actions.

And, as I said, if you call his theory b.s. because he wasn't there that night, then it stands to reason that everyone here who thinks that they know exactly what happened that night, even though they weren't there, is b.s. also right?
Leave out the fact that we're not testifying.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
171. We're all posting theories based on what we see.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:27 AM
Jul 2013

Not touting ourselves as experts or testifying under oath. No, none of us knows exactly what happened and neither do you. Aren't you former LEO? Let's not pretend you don't understand the difference.

Why is it so important to you to put down everyone who discusses this case and believes Zimmerman is guilty? If you're not defending Z why are most if not all your posts promoting the defense's case? If someone is impartial logic tells us that at some point their posts would fall on the prosecution's side.

I don't understand why you hang out on these threads if all us "amateurs" bother you so much.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
182. I've said several times that I'm a retired FLEO,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:36 AM
Jul 2013

and I'm not putting anyone down, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of many here who think that they know exactly what went on that night, even though none of us were there, and yet, when a witness puts forth a theory, they say it's b.s., how is that any different from those here?

If you think I'm putting people down, well, that's your perception.

In no way have I ever promoted the defense's case, as someone who's testified in numerous criminal trials, for the state and defense, I point out where the state's case is weak as hell, that is not promoting the defense case.

I'll hang out and continue correcting people here when they are wrong on the law, if you don't like it, don't read it.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
205. I think it's your attitude that leads to my perceptions.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:52 AM
Jul 2013

I don't mean that in a snarky way. You're correcting people on the law and I suppose that's fine but you insinuate that nobody else's opinion on what happened is valid. Jurors aren't LEO, they're people just like the rest of us civilians so I think perhaps our perspectives are closer to what the jury will feel than yours. Valid?

Of course it gets more complicated when you get into what the jury is allowed to know vs. what the public knows etc.

I don't know what went on that night but I don't believe what Zimmerman said so where does that leave me? I can only speculate and since I think Z is lying, it causes me to speculate that Zimmerman lied because he did something wrong.

Sorry I keep asking about LEO but I get Z defenders confused. Just kidding! If you say you're not I'll have to go on your word. Maybe you can "correct" some of Z's supporters because they are clearly not legal experts either.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
298. I can only speak for myself
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:58 PM
Jul 2013

but I doubt if anybody really believes they really
know. As other posters have said, we are speculating,
and in many ways we are the jury, but we get
no legal vote.

I have thoroughly digested as much of Zimmerman's
story as has been presented in court and to the
public, I think -- at least his version(s) of that night.

The more I have learned, the less it makes sense,
the less he seems trustworthy, the more Trayvon
Martin comes out as a truly innocent kid who was
fighting for his life. The case as laid out by the
prosecution is quite simple and it is solid, my
non-expert opinion.

It is frustrating when defense witnesses and defense
attorneys obfuscate the facts and raise questions
re the innocence of Trayvon. I know it's their job,
but don't have to like them on that account, or
their tactics. I find both of them unpleasant to
watch and listen to.

You can keep posting your point of view, and I personally
think it's valuable, but you can do it without disparaging
the enthusiasm and perspectives of other posters.
That part adds nothing to the discussion except
misunderstanding and bad feeling. It doesn't make
anyone more humble.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
380. Can you PLEASE find another thread to clutter up?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 03:08 PM
Jul 2013

Talk about pedantic.Having the last word is not lost on you. Even if it's dry as toast and just as unpalatable.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
78. Zimmerman should demand a refund.. that would be 4-6 hours a week for
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:43 AM
Jul 2013

anywhere from 6 months to a year of training.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
84. So if I took boxing lessons 2-3 a week for a year, I can't
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
Jul 2013

use any assumption that I would have more skills than someone who has never stepped into a ring?

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
87. I don't know if you remembered what you learned, I don't know what you can use what you learned.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jul 2013

You are assuming a lot.

I have never stepped in the ring but have wrestled with my friends before, just because you haven't had MMA classes doesn't mean you cant take someone down.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
94. It certainly doesn't but a jury will be asking themselves that someone
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jul 2013

with training might at the very least be more able at fighting. That is all it's about. It is not as you suggest that something is possible. Anything is possible.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
125. So it is MORE probbable hat the person with a years worth of boxing training has the advantage over
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:02 AM
Jul 2013

...the person who has NOT had ANY BOXING TRAINING AT ALL

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
130. Facts are facts regardless of whether you believe them or not. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE - ZIMMERMAN
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:04 AM
Jul 2013

...had more training in MMA than TM

PERIOD end of story

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
150. I could care less that Z had the training. Does this mean that TM was doomed because of
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jul 2013

a year of MMA(boxing)?

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
157. Most LIKELY he would be...the person with almost a years worth of training has MORE advantange than
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jul 2013

...the person who didn't

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
154. Z had nearly a year of regular MMA training, was 40 pounds bigger, 10 years older and had a gun...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:15 AM
Jul 2013

all of which give him a distinct advantage over an untrained youth armed with skittles.

Zimmerman also had lived in the area for 3 years, whereas the Martin was visiting, so Zimmerman had an advantage in knowing the area, notwithstanding his inability to remember the names of the 3 streets he patrolled, or thinking he could find the names and numbers at the back of the houses instead of the front.

Perhaps a simple IQ test should be part of licensing to carry concealed.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
158. I thought I heard the expert say that age doesn't matter.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:17 AM
Jul 2013

and 40lbs bigger means more out of shape.


TM could have ran circles around Z, and what seems to have a longer arm reach.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
188. 40 pounds bigger can be 40 pounds more muscle
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:39 AM
Jul 2013

training 3x/week for nearly a year will give you more muscle mass, not more fat. Video from that day shows Zimmerman looking quite fit, especially considering that video adds about 15 pounds to appearance.

Martin's combined height and weight make him more of a bean pole than muscle bound. There is nothing in his history suggesting he was a jock, that I am aware of.

So glad to hear age doesn't matter, except yes it does. Your body grows first in height and breadth. It adds muscle mass later. So age gives more muscle mass, along with more life experience. You learn dirty tricks as you go.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
213. IIRC, he "won" his domestic violence assaults, when he picked on somebody smaller, but "lost" his
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jul 2013

assault on a cop, in that he was arrested.

He also "won" the sexual molestation of a minor due to family intervention.

Quite a history. Zimmerman carries some ugly baggage that shows an ugly character.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
242. I didn't change the topic. You wrote "Z always win," I wrote when he did or didn't win. also, n/t
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:20 PM
Jul 2013

means no text on the body. So your "n/t" in the topic line is misleading.

Having been sexually molested and physically abused as a child, and stalked on multiple occasions as an adult, I do consider physical abuse, molestation and stalking to be "evil" behavior.

We're not talking about a single incident here. We're looking at a pattern of behavior. I'll wager I can find many, many people who have never physically abused or molested anybody in their lifetime, never mind multiple incidents within 28 years of their life, not to mention hunting down and shooting a stranger to death at point blank range.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
117. It's not the standard in this case. If it were there would never be any trials.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:59 AM
Jul 2013

You could never have a conclusion.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
95. All things being equal so take all variants out. NO CREDIBLE person can say the guy with 1 year of
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jul 2013

....training has LESS of an advantage than the person with no

ALL THINGS EQUAL

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
104. I would imagine that TM wrestled around with his friends and maybe even been in a scrum.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:55 AM
Jul 2013

are you trying to say that TM wasn't able to defend himself without MMA training?

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
134. haha omg. I said "I WOULD IMAGINE" not that I read somewhere that he did.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:05 AM
Jul 2013

I said I imagine, because I have seen hundreds of kids wrestling.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
89. That's what Z Defenders want people to believe, it's assinine at best and racial in context
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jul 2013

...because the black guy is the better athelete vs boxer

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
155. When it comes to common sense logic it means a lot. Common sense - the guy who trained MMA
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:15 AM
Jul 2013

...for almost a year would have the advantage in a fight over the person with NONE at all.

A 200lb grown man with almost a years worth of MMA training and a gun gets beat up by a 150-ish lb 10th grader....


OK...


 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
162. I think you are assuming things... Just because you had MMA classes doesnt make you better than
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:19 AM
Jul 2013

someone who hasn't had any.

If TM knew a simple leg lock, according to the trainer, TM would know more about the move than Z would.

Nine

(1,741 posts)
296. MMA is a full contact combat sport. It's not "completely different" from boxing.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts

And it certainly isn't a milder form of fighting than boxing if that's what you're trying to imply with your nitpicking. An MMA fighter generally has the advantage over a mere boxer.

In the early 1990s, practitioners of grappling based styles such as Brazilian jiu-jitsu dominated competition in the United States. Practitioners of striking based arts such as boxing, kickboxing, and karate who were unfamiliar with submission grappling proved to be unprepared to deal with its submission techniques.


By the defense's own admission, Zimmerman, the former bouncer, had hundreds of hours of MMA training. But in a fight with a skinny, unarmed teenager he was in fear for his life?

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
92. Of course you can.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:51 AM
Jul 2013

One thing I find interesting is they keep trying to play down the size difference. Zimmerman had 40 lbs on Trayvon. Yes, Trayvon was taller but boxing has weight classes not height classes. Zimmerman would be a heavyweight I think at the time of the shooting and what would Trayvon have been? Welterweight? Maybe Middleweight?

Also, I'm not sure what difference claims Z couldn't fight make since he was armed nd we have no idea about Trayvon's ability. Besides not being able to fight isn't cause to use deadly force.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
105. Some people are Chuck Norris, some are PeeWee Herman
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:55 AM
Jul 2013

Did he call Zimmerman an inept unmanly clumsy nerd? And that is the guy who is voluntarily protecting the neighborhood. Wow. Pee Wee Herman. I never made that association before. Thanks defense team.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
167. He slandered Pee Wee
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jul 2013

by comparing Zimmerman's prowess at MMA to Pee Wee's ability to do martial arts.

Personally, I wish PeeWee had been the block watch guy. He and Trayvon would have shared Skittles and the poor kid would still be alive.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
82. Prosecutor objected to question about Leo discharging firearm
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jul 2013

Sustained.

Duh! Zimmerman isn't Leo.

And then wanted witness to testified whether Z had ill-will firing his weapon. Um, seriously?? Apparently this guy is a psychic friend or something. Besides, you're not going to convince me shooting a man in the chest is anything but ill-will.

This testimony is a joke.

Oh and whether Z could fight or not may be subjective, but I personally think someone with 40 lbs on me and a gun is way more of a threat to me than I am to them.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
83. Is Root serious!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
Jul 2013

bob kealing ?@bobkealing 4m Root: re gun fired in close range one time: does not suggest ill will spite or hatred. Again elements of second degree murder.

I don't know about you but I regard anybody who shot and killed me to have felt ill will towards me.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
111. I don't think that there is really such think
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:58 AM
Jul 2013

as an accidental shooting. I consider them to be intentional or negligence.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
132. Please refer to your first post:
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:05 AM
Jul 2013

about any shooter having ill will.

I take "any" to mean "any." Silly me.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
147. One might make the point that a gun owner who is
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:10 AM
Jul 2013

careless enough to leave a loaded gun where anyone (child, stranger, whatever) could get ahold of it and and shoot harldy holds the life of others in good will. In the case of a child accessing a loaded gun, the child becomes the instrument of the gun owner's ill will toward the life of others.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
303. but nobody has claimed an accidental shooting here
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:04 PM
Jul 2013

so it was intentional, and not friendly.

(but maybe you are challenging a generalization about
ALL shootings, I'm not sure.)

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
96. NBC not working for me; watching the FL link. Am I supposed to like this witness? I don't.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jul 2013

I think he wants us all to carry fully loaded ("and ARMED&quot guns, and preferably with hollow-point bullets!

THIS MAN IS A GUN-NUT.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
194. I have to disagree.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:46 AM
Jul 2013

He was saying that IF you are going to carry a gun, it is STUPID to not have it leaded. Not that everyone should have a loaded gun.

Saturday

(3,744 posts)
116. And I thought the gym owner was arrogant...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:59 AM
Jul 2013

Root beats him by a mile. Aren't we glad this expert on all things contacted the defense so he could show us all his wide range of expertise?

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
129. I think this testimony about the holster
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:04 AM
Jul 2013

Just reinforces my belief that there was no way Trayvon saw the gun. He also testified how very dark it was. Not sure this is helping the defense.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
143. Prosecution just blew this guy out of the water
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:09 AM
Jul 2013

He's doing it for marketing for his consulting business.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
152. "did you ask Zimmerman if he was afraid when he got out of the car"
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

after asking Root did he hear Zimmerman say to the dispatcher that he thought Martin might have something in his hand.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
156. the prosecution said the same thing about the ME yesterday.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jul 2013

they guys are just bought and paid for! they are doing nothing but lying! how dare they!


uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
159. They are starting to sound like hacks because they didn't look at all the evidence and the ...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:18 AM
Jul 2013

...evidence they DID look at was from the defense...

pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
244. HLN muted a bunch of the opening questions on the cross of Root
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:21 PM
Jul 2013

They said it was for language, For anyone watching on-line, what exactly was the objectionable language?

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
263. That would be references to fucking punks and assholes
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:34 PM
Jul 2013

The consultant shockingly doesn't think those infer malice or hate.

pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
288. That's pretty much what I assumed
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013

It was a good opportunity to remind the jury of Zimmerman's own words describing Martin: a fucking punk and a God damned asshole.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
168. On cross, Root is coming across like
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jul 2013

a lazy witness. For someone to claim to be such an expert, his work appears incomplete at best.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
178. Root is starting to sink fast!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
Jul 2013

I cannot believe that the Defense thought that he would be a good witness.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
198. Jury reaction
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:48 AM
Jul 2013

bob kealing ?@bobkealing 9m Yep, think so“@AlisiaEsq: @bobkealing no backfire yet, but I think female jurors are enjoying Guy's performance with the mannequin”

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
210. This guy is spending the day advertising his services.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:56 AM
Jul 2013

And he's not going to get any clients this day! I see the prosecution is not happy with him.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
186. LOL. I couldn't get the lighting correct because I didn't take into consideration
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:39 AM
Jul 2013

the change of season. What an expert.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
191. Wow! The questions with the dummy were perfect!
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:43 AM
Jul 2013

Exactly what a lot of people have been saying. I love that the prosecutor acted it out. From the look of that, if it's accurate, not only could Trayvon not see the gun, but Zimmerman couldn't possibly have gotten to it.

And let's not forget, all of the actual altercation happened in about one minute.

And a minute ago the witness admitted "I didn't spend a lot of time asking him (Zimmerman) a lot of things."

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
215. If TM had happened to reach toward where the gun was, Z(in the heat of the moment) thought that
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:59 AM
Jul 2013

TM was going for his gun. That would make Z fear for his life.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
223. Are you watching the trial?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:07 PM
Jul 2013

The prosecutor acted out how Zimmerman said the altercation happened with a dummy and showed Trayvon would have been sitting over and above where Z claimed the gun was. If accurate, there's no way Z could reach the gun.

This guy also testifies how well this holster hides the gun and like several others how very dark it was out there.

So to believe Zimmerman we have to believe he saw a gun, in a black holster concealed in Zimmerman's pants that was under Zimmerman, in the dark and behind where he was supposedly sitting on Z.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
232. Yes but the prosecution is showing he's full of crap.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:13 PM
Jul 2013

I can claim I can fly but it doesn't make it so.

He hasn't said HOW Zimmerman got his hands free and reached under and around Trayvon to get his gun out of the holster down in his pants in the back.

It's not just illogical but looks physically impossible.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
212. Costner made a great point - Zimmerman
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jul 2013

did not advise the non-emergency operator that he was carrying. Heck if the timing had been different, he might have been shot by a police officer.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
306. You hear so many stories in the news these days of
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:05 PM
Jul 2013

police officers who shoot first and ask questions later on.

Deny and Shred

(1,061 posts)
214. Many missed questions
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jul 2013

Why isn't the lawyer asking this 'force escalation expert' whether TM de-escalated when he ran? Shouldn't he try to get the expert to say that the one known de-ecsalation the entire night came from the victim. Why isn't he demonstrating how unlikely a 90 degree angle would be if we are to take GZs account?

The big point is who started the confrontation. The only testimony as to the start comes from the defendant, the shooter. His credibility is paramount.

My big issue is on GZs non-911 call. Roughly 8 seconds go by from his closing the car door to his being told, "We don't need you to do that." Another 1:40 go by on that call. GZ is going anywhere but back to his truck. If he is at the T as he claims, why ask the dispatcher to be called instead of meet at his truck.

GZ has soft-pedaled his initial statements time and again, and exaggerated his injuries.



Deny and Shred

(1,061 posts)
247. Sure
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:23 PM
Jul 2013

He says his head was 'smashed' into concrete 20-30 times, to the point where his head was going to explode. He had two scrapes on the back of his head with no bruising, and no fractures. He said he received 25-30 blows to the face and head. A beating so brutal he refused medical treatment. Take a good look at the cleaned up George 24-36 hours later. No swelling, nor black eyes.

Serino and Singleton catch him seft-pedaling his complicity. When asked on the non-911 tape "are you following?" he replies "Yes." He has tried to walk that back every time since. Serino: Are you following? GZ: No, I just went in the direction he did. Serino: That's following. His claims have varied from 'I was trying to spot him from afar for the cops', to 'I was on my way back to the truck,' to ''I was trying to get an address.' His story is he was doing anything but actually looking for him, because that would be bad legally. A minute forty on the phone, and more time afterward. His claim doesn't fit.

He claimed he didn't know if he even hit him with the bullet, yet holstered his gun, walked away, took out his cell phone, and spoke to his neighbor. He says he didn't know he killed him until hours later while with the police, but every other 911 call has poeple saying/crying within 10-20 seconds of the shooting that someone is dead.

That's off the top of my head.

Deny and Shred

(1,061 posts)
280. Exactly
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:47 PM
Jul 2013

How could he not think he'd hit him? Of course he knew he did, that's why he didn't think of him as a threat, hence the holstering of the gun. The statement that he didn't even know was GZ trying to play down the severity of his actions.

I guess we concur on the other lies?

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
246. relating to being a smart ass,...no really...Root sounds like a hack and now his testimony suonds
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:23 PM
Jul 2013

...like it helped the PA more than defense.

Saying it doesn't matter how GZ got his gun when it was covered by TM's leg no matter what the angle GZ was in is an illogical statement at best

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
250. so Z was able to move TM's leg away to grab the gun from his side. easily done.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:25 PM
Jul 2013

I would say Root isn't helping any side.

he certainly isn't helping the prosecution prove anything.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
254. ..according to Z it wasn't on his side...see, that's why it's important to show HOW he got his gun
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:28 PM
Jul 2013

...regards

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
271. then I guess it doesnt matter because he believe how Z got the gun in his hand is moot.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:39 PM
Jul 2013

Ill take the experts word over yours.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
282. Point being root is a hack, if root was TRULY worried about the TRUTH he would've taken both sides..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jul 2013

...of the story instead of looking like a stone cold idiot and not taking all material info into account.

Because root is a hack and he doesnt' want to further look like an idiot for believing only the defense of course he would say it doesn't matter how GZ got a gun, that be all logical accounts, was not accessible to him or TM

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
292. This expert is wrong about the gun.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:55 PM
Jul 2013

Zimmerman is claiming self-defense. If the gun was already in his hand when the altercation started it shows that it was Trayvon who was defending himself from a creepy guy who had pulled a gun on him.

When Zimmerman pulled his gun is very important to the jury!

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
304. How about your opinion
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:04 PM
Jul 2013

You saw the reenactment based on Zummerman's account. How did he get to the gun?

If you don't think when the gun was pulled is significant then you don't understand Zimmerman's defense.

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
319. Your opinion is based on what Zimmerman told police.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:16 PM
Jul 2013

So if you see he has lied, your opinion might change.

The only proof we have that Trayvon hit Z is again Z's story.

So how did he get to the gun with Trayvon sitting on his hands and chest? How did Trayvon see the gun in Z's pants, in the dark, in a black holster?

And Zimmerman couldn't just shoot Trayvon because he was being hit, he had to fear for his life and his injuries really don't show how any reasonable person could have.

My problem with it is that there are huge holes in Z's story so I don't believe him. Everything else goes back to that.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
324. so TM was sittin on Z to where Z was not able to move his arms?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:21 PM
Jul 2013

if someone is on my chest and my arms are at my side I would be able to reach my gun on my side.

Possible the handle of the gun was slightly above the belt line after being roughed up on the ground.

If Z thought his life was in danger after having his head hit against cement then he would be able to shoot TM.


If you are getting hit in the head, you don't know if the injuries are bad enough to kill you or not, you just FEAR that you could die. am I wrong?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
363. in my opinion? the gun was in GZ's hands..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:07 PM
Jul 2013

the holster was in his waistband on his back. have you been following this at all?

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
364. so when you tell me that the gun wsa not holstered, that is what you believe but you have
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:08 PM
Jul 2013

no proof of that, am I correct?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
367. that is correct..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:13 PM
Jul 2013

but you just made a statement that would infer that the gun was holstered on GZ's side, when we know that is factually incorrect, correct?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
373. this guy is a self-proclaimed "expert" at his first trial..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:26 PM
Jul 2013

who solicited the defense team for his services, who was ill prepared, and was also ANNIHILATED by the prosecution. feel free to hang your hat on this bozo if you like!

Response to frylock (Reply #365)

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
386. His post was hidden.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 05:42 PM
Jul 2013

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Hide.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Ninja turtle wants his pizza.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

I was either juror # 1, 5, or 6. IMO, no explanation was required.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
387. i didn't alert. i like those posts to stand on their own merit..
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jul 2013

i'm guessing the leave it vote was from one of my many fans here.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
224. I don't have time to watch but try to read these threads.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:07 PM
Jul 2013

Thanks to all who are weighing through all of this.

Question to all who have followed it in detail:

How do you think it is going.

Thanks in advance.
 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
317. quick answer
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:14 PM
Jul 2013

I think the defense has a strong case for 2nd.
It's unknown whether the jury will agree.

Judge seems frequently annoyed by the defense.

Defense has presented a parade of witnesses
none of whom seemed credible to me.

Defense is supposed to close today and there
are legal issues they have to deal with in
the court and then I guess the Prosecution
presents its rebuttal.

I realize this probably doesn't tell you much..
actually it's been a bit of a nailbiter.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
328. my opinion, absolutely
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:25 PM
Jul 2013

manslaughter using a gun of a child = serious crime,
penalties almost comparable to 2nd degree w/gun.

There are some funny laws in FL "10-20-LIFE"
related to the use of a gun in the commission
of any crime. I'm not clear if it ups the sentence,
or it imposes an additional concurrent mandatory
sentence.

I would be SHOCKED if the jury acquitted.
There's no way his claim of self-defense has
proved believable (my opinion).

justanaverageguy

(186 posts)
336. does self defense have to be proven or.....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:37 PM
Jul 2013

is it that after the defense presents a prima facie (which I think they have) case for self defense that it is up to the prosecution to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt??

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
341. I don't think the defense has a convincing case
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:43 PM
Jul 2013

for self defense, unless the jury is not too bright
or has a pre-held bias.

I'm not a legal expert so I can't give you
a legal opinion or explanation, just my own
point of view.

justanaverageguy

(186 posts)
350. Oh i didn't mean to say that it was convincing
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:54 PM
Jul 2013

but I do believe they presented a prima facie case, which is to say that if you take them for their word and view the facts (as stated by them) in their favor they did present a prima facie case for self defense. I think then once that is done it's up to the prosecution to prove that the self defense claim is bogus.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
353. OK I see what you mean.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:58 PM
Jul 2013

Yes the rebuttal after the defense rests will
be interesting.

Gawd.. West is objecting to the judge

Link to afternoon Thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023216577#post20

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
369. me too. The defense shennanigans are just too painful to watch.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jul 2013

He will not be able to argue any grounds of 'ineffective counsel'.


I was also shocked when I watched the investigative cop on a recorded interview where it seemed that from the outset he was coaching Zimmerman with leading questions "so you were afraid for your life, right?"


I don't know why this particular case has affected me so deeply but it has. I cannot bear to watch it.
 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
374. of all the public trials in the news, this is the only one that has captivated me in this way
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jul 2013

and frankly I think it is a hugely important case.
Plus it is heartrending.

I haven't watched Arrested Development but
my daughter was telling me there's a character
named Bob Loblaw. And he has a law blog.

I am still laughing, trying to say "Bob Loblaw's Law Blog."

Now when I listen to the defense I keep
thinking bobloblaw...

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
388. you can watch the whole trial on YouTube
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:20 PM
Jul 2013

croakerqueen123 puts up the whole trial at the end of every day's testimony...

http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123/videos

If you want, you can watch as much as you like there, skip over sidebars, breaks, any boring bits, and do so when you feel like it and have the time. I've watched the whole trial this way since I can't watch live. It goes a heck of a lot faster this way too since sooo much is sidebars, breaks and boring bits.

Spazito

(50,453 posts)
225. O'Mara is asking 'is it possible' on so many things it is becoming laughable...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:09 PM
Jul 2013

this witness has hurt, not helped, the defense and O'Mara is pissed, imo.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
227. On re-cross - This would be the time to ask that,
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:09 PM
Jul 2013

if someone is bleeding out in less then 3 minutes, does Root think that there would be blood in Martin's body to show the results of any attack from Zimmerman?

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
252. ...it's kind of weak to continue to proffer POSSIBILITIES when those go without saying no? I mean it
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:26 PM
Jul 2013

...is possible that Serino and GZ are KKK Grand Dragons and don't like people of color and that's why they drug tested the dead black kid and not the live shooter.

ANYTHING is possible....


I don't find it PROBABLE that a relatively fit, 200lb, MMA trained GZ got beat up by a 150lb 10th grade high school kid....

That doesn't even sound right.....I know a lot of 10th grade kids.... they aint beaten up nAthin...

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
255. doesn't the evidence of Z's face show that TM was on top of him and hitting him?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:29 PM
Jul 2013

looks like we know different 10th graders.

Its probable that you don't care about a trial and just want to see Z locked up.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
265. No, especially since GZ had a bloody head and TM had no blood on his hands. NONE of Z's DNA....
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:36 PM
Jul 2013

....that shows me he didn't touch GZ

I'm not taking GZ's word for it, he's a damn liar

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
268. because blood gushes everywhere as soon as someone is hit so TM should be covered, right?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:39 PM
Jul 2013

I'm guessing you believe Z hit himself after he shot TM and gave himself his own injuries, right?

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
275. No, after 25 - 50 hits on his face and head...unless you want to proffer that after all that hitting
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:41 PM
Jul 2013

...Z bleed NONE?!

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
290. That is quite possible ...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jul 2013

GZ did in fact inflict his own injuries to help bolster his self defense claim. About as possible as the notion he was a helpless, defenseless wimp who had to shoot an unarmed 158 lb kid in order to save his own life.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
301. Z probably got his head injuries
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:02 PM
Jul 2013

Shaving that bald dome. And I figure after he shot Martin he knew he was so stupid,
he meant to do a head slap and broke his own nose. Makes as much sense as his lies.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
323. Welcome
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:21 PM
Jul 2013

But seriously don't you think that if Z nose were broken and there was blood under his nose and in his mouth, and it was choking him flowing down the back of his throat he would have been gargling when he claimed it was himself screaming. And that Travon would have had blood on his hands from alledgedly suffocating him. Travon, should have had his hands smeared with DNA. They were clean.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
278. uuuuuuhh .......... no.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
Jul 2013

It doesn't show any such thing. It shows that the lying, stalking Zimmerman somehow managed to obtain a couple of little boo-boos once he'd cornered his prey. And yes, I do want to see 'Z'/liar/stalker locked up.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
295. No, TM scared Z by being a young black man...that scares a lot of Z types and they react negatively
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013

....but that's mostly on Z's shoulders for not changing his mind to the realities of his surroundings....

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
312. I'm being facetious, it doesn't look like Z had any racial animus towards blacks just sounds like he
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

...was REALLY REALLY frustrated at the amount of theft and his apartment had been broken into recently IIRC.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
318. so Z is now a trained MMA fighter? even though his trainer said he wasn't that great?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:16 PM
Jul 2013

Z is not a trained MMA fighter...

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
321. A badly trained MMA fighter beats a person with no training at all....TM wasn't a welter weight ...
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jul 2013

...contender because he was a young man

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
326. how do you know TM hasnt been in a fight to give him some street training?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:23 PM
Jul 2013

I would say that being badly trained doesn't make you anything except not knowledgeable in what you were trained in.

If Z was trained at all he should be able to enter the ring and the trainer has said he wouldn't let him do that.

mzmolly

(51,004 posts)
346. How do you know Zimmerman didn't have an assault charge
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:49 PM
Jul 2013

against a cop and a former fiance? Oh wait......

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
335. you think that the shitty trainer could get anyone to be a trained MMA fighter in a year?
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:31 PM
Jul 2013

you must be crazy if you do.

 

HeroInAHalfShell

(330 posts)
355. I would think you are right if someone had a competent trainer. I wouldnt say that Z had a competent
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:00 PM
Jul 2013

trainer though.

Finnmccool

(74 posts)
357. How can anyone be "incapable of self defense"
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:02 PM
Jul 2013

unless you are a infant or on your death bed. We learn at a very young age that having our thumb bent back hurts. We also learn biting hurts. GZ said TM covered his mouth with one hand with the fingers on one side and the thumb on the other. He couldn't grab the thumb and bend it? He couldn't bite the hand?

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
377. Guy devestating out of the gate on recross.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 02:33 PM
Jul 2013

Root looks like a deer in the headlights. You can see the fear in his eyes.

The Jolly Green Giant?

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