He does not view Venezuela (or Cuba, or Bolivia, or Nicaragua) through the liberal 'escape to safe haven' lens. They will NOT be to his ideological liking.

Saying you would never touch Social Security, and then proposing chained CPI.
And I suppose that since Obama previously said marriage should be between a man and a woman, and then "evolved", we should all just say bullshit.
Anyway, no, he is not a hero, but whatever he said, ever, has no bearing on what he leaked.
Don't understand the fascination with smearing Snowden - he leaked the NSA stuff, and that's really all that's relevant.

If they reflect negatively on him, so be it.

It goes to the oddity of the claim that surveillance is so reprehensible (at least NOW he thinks so), yet he flees to countries who are very much about surveillance.

A lot of people are taking him at his word that he only did this for the most selfless of reasons. For some who claim to be defenders of the truth, it's interesting that uncovering more details about Snowden meets with such resistance.

and it has become terribly tiring.

This merely gives insight into the lack of credibility Snowden has due to his massive swings in positions.

Who cares? The government has not denied a word he has said. That is all that is important.

I'm glad he informed the world about the surveillance. We really don't need it, and it shouldn't be happening. If what he said and if the documents he gave Greenwald were false, we would hear about that. But apparently they aren't.

He's just a young man who came forward with information that bothered his conscience.

I am more surprised by the liberals on DU and by Obama who condemned this kind of surveilance when Bush was president and now think it is OK.

It wasn't OK then, and it isn't OK now. That's my opinion.

Snowden is the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger. Change the system.

It IS about the issue of whether domestic spying violating our 4th amendment and arguably other parts of our constitution is OK or not. Whether or not it is a Democratic or Republican administration, it is NOT ok in my book and needs to be fixed.

If those in congress want to be perceived as working for all of us in the next election and not a well funded 1% elite that wants to in effect tear down democracy, they should work in a bipartisan manner to craft legislation to fix this problem! And do it NOW!...

He released official records...not his words. His "credibility" has no Bering on the information released.

In any case, if he were an extreme RWer/patriot/libertarian, why would he leave the USA to live in Russia, Bolivia, Venezuela, etc? Sounds like a man who's changed his tune.

Snowden's unsupported claims leave his character and motivation fair game. The guy was and is a loon who thinks he can change the world with PowerPoint slides and then run and hide.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

He said what he said on a chat. How dare someone actually disclose the details?

I guess it's a "smear" because it doesn't jibe with the narrative.

based on items especially selected to cast them in a bad light, all while ignoring positive attributes, is absolutely smearing them. You don't have to outright lie to smear, you just have to be dishonest in how you represent someone.

Questioning the honesty of a person based on the lies they have told is not unfair. When Obama took office G.G. was sure he was the wrong guy for the job and has wasted no time in constructing a conspiracy-laden narrative that does nothing but smear the president and his evil intentions to spy on every American all the time. Anyone that has actually taken the time to read the "explosive" secret documents revealed by the double agent known as Snowden will discover that the evidence of the documents plainly discredit the assertions of snowden, G G and other "hair on fire" governmental conspiracy theory mongers. the so called evidence of wrong doing actually proves that the NSA is subject to many restrictions and laws that prevent NSA from spying on citizens. There is no evidence of a centrally planned ministry of super spys with state of the art technology attempting to subvert the rule of law through warrantless wiretaps of every American citizen- all 290,000,000 of them. Snowden presents absolutely no corroborating evidence for his most flamboyant claims. But conspiracy fans prefer to claim that we shouldnmt read the released documents to discover the truthfulness of Snowden's claims- we should just take his and g g's word for it. reading and thinking for oneself seems to be a little too coplicated for the paranoids in search of confirmation of the Matrix.

actions.

fled to places that are much worse? He must not have really thought it was so terrible.

Staying in the United States would have been a bad decision. It is like some want Snowden to go ahead and fall on his sword, now that he has exposed the spying. Bread and circuses. Well, not so much bread any more.

maybe a problem is not "politically liberal" thinking. Many others are saying that we need to investigate the spy machine. Snowden may have opened the door, but the horses are loose. But all some can think about is lynching Snowden. Get your fingers out of your ears and open your eyes. There is a big world out there.

Those who play Obama's words back are labeled as bashers and haters........

Obama still hasn't killed it. I guess that must be tomorrow, right?

According to Obama's press secretary, Obama thinks Chained CPI is a good thing.

That chained CPI would be meaningless in its effects.

government transparency, and then doing the opposite. Not choosing between the two.
I wasn't aware that Chained CPI and threatened human rights were part of a Sophie's Choice.

Just whether you like that person?

what he revealed.
Because Obama happens to be president.

Not sure I'm following the logic, your personal interpretation of Obama's policies and your attempt to interpret Obama's motivations, is justification for Snowden giving away states secrests?? Unless of course this is your feeble attempt at a strawman.

eventually he'll want to come back to the US he has ailing father... he will become Philip Nolan.

I wonder how it feels to look in a mirror and see yourself all backwards and distorted?

I love this post.

...what was that called, the Funny House or The Crazy House? I think everyone needs one of those mirrors in their house... so they can learn to laugh at themselves.

Leave Eddie alone!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

John Schindler ?@20committee 44m
Whatever its cinematographic shortcomings, Sharknado is still more reality-based than anything written by The Greenwald lately.

Glenn Greenwald jumped the Sharknado

remember who you are sliming for, and keep sliming!

:patriotic:

too bad.

For people who demand truth from government, you sure seem to be selective about uncovering it elsewhere.

Face it, he's a vindictive Libertarian who waited to do his leaking until a Democrat took office.

If this had something to do with hating Democrats, he would have released this stuff a year ago. Mitt would have loved that...

keep fucking that chicken.

Particularly the slow-mo at the end.

Character assassination hasn't changed one fact, one fact that all the noise, smoke, and distraction keeps trying to obfuscate. That the Government has been, and continues, to spy on all of us.

when you all agree on what it's been proven is taking place, do post it.

And by the way, is it illegal?

And to your question, it goes again to getting at the reason why he stole information and fled to countries that go against the very principles he claimed to want to protect to share that stolen information.

I thought people loved to question things here. Maybe it's only under selective conditions.

Segregation also ultimately was found to violate the Constitution. It took 100 years, but it was finally ruled that separate but equal deprived African-Americans and others of equal rights and that deprivation violated the Constitution.

A free press is impossible if all communications between members of the press and their sources are under surveillance and known to the government.

Same with freedom of religion and freedom of assembly.

And some of the secret rulings of the FISA court, because they are secret and because we the people cannot know what they are, deprive us of our right to petition our government to have them changed. That too is unconstitutional.

I have stated these arguments many times on DU. As of this time and this post, no one has refuted them. No one has explained how we can have a free press or freedom of religion or freedom of assembly or the right to freely petition our government to change the laws that permit the specific broad orders that enable this program if we are all under surveillance.

Lots of nasty aspersions on Snowden as an individual, but no explanations as to how we can claim to be free and to have the freedoms I listed if we are under surveillance.

I'm waiting, and have been waiting for days if not weeks now. No persuasive counterarguments have been offered.

That they are violating the 4th...in 2011... You go argue with the same people who had that finding, and then decided to classify it...for national security of course, and now might release it...since it's a town cryer secret.

Irony...it's deep.

I know, I know, it's ok as long as a democrat does it.

Then, when a republican gets to the wh, it will be a problem and shit.

and his neighbors didn't like him. People need to stop focusing on the growth of the Intelligence Industrial Complex and focus on the REAL issue. Snowden is a fucking weirdo. That is the issue. Not whether or not an every increasing surveillance state could be getting out of hand. Who the fuck cares about that?" Snowden is a first class weirdo and that is the only real issue at hand

But the anti-Obama feelings run deep down into all those Bush appointees and Fed contractors who virtually called their own shots while Bush was in office.

I just don't get it... I really, really, really don't.

Funny that.

But apparently they're not seeing it.

Funny, I feel like I've been in Wonderland since 1999, but apparently they're living someplace even stranger.

including mine. I don't like Ron nor Rand Paul, but I was outraged when the spying on US citizens was revealed under the Bush misadministration. Why Snowden has so much focus amuses me...as if there weren't others before him, but carry on...

Get everything they did illegally for years and make a bigger deal out of it when Obama used the program after it was legalized.

George W Bush rehabilitation tour is now in progress.

Did he use that word or are you not a reporter ?

We aren't anywhere as nearly likely to be authoritarian whack jobs lacking in vision and without convictions or scruples, that's why. Or so I've strongly believed my whole life but turns out it wasn't as true as I thought.

I have to agree it is hard to respect folks with no values, integrity, principles, or honor but I have a lot more tolerance for going from wrong to right than the other way around.

Has he learned his lesson or is he just a partisan flipper? Who knows and who really cares? It isn't central to the issues. The focus is goofy. Where do you stand on the policies?

Which is an infinitely larger issue.

Don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your characterization of the president as a treasonous agent out to destroy America through spying on every America all the time, with the assistance of his "kill" list of political enemies to murder.
I wonder what evil you won't blame on Obama. Or has all rational thought taken a backseat to your ODS?
Have fun with the whole "snowden is my hero" lifestyle choice you've made. The leap of faith required to sustain belief in right wing-fueled nonesense that accuses the president of treason is one that demonstates your willingness to disregard all facts in the pursuit of the right combination of hyperbole and out-right lies to discredit the president. I can understand disliking someone but when it becomes an obsession perhaps ypou should re-think your (im)moral position.

Seems the tracking of the Snowden Claus sleigh went silent.

The smear machine rolls on.

I do hope that you get the help you need.

Obama doubled down on it, literally. NSA budget has doubled since he took office. They aren't building yottabytes of storage to just collect metadata, which only require a fraction of that.

If as it appears Snowden's primary intention in telling his tales was to discredit the Obama administration -- which, incidentally, was also Bradley Manning's primary intention, according to his own webchats -- that casts doubt on the veracity of this "information" and also on the bona fides of his handlers, promoters, and supporters. All of them, IMHO.

That is a strange thing to assert. Is what was leaked right or wrong?
And we can play back the words of a LOT of people in government, and see that what they do is the opposite of what they said when they were campaigning. Lies up the wazoo - or change of heart? Funny how that goes.

weird, hunh?

And to not care if the NSA goes through my phone records. I always assume that I have no privacy unless I'm on the toilet. If I needed to make a secret phone call I'd just go to Fred Meyers and get a throwaway phone. They're like 9 bucks.
I also think that Facebook spies on me much more than the NSA can.

My only gripe is that they're not using the information to bust sex traffickers and child pornographers, two egregious crimes that occur more often than terrorism.

I guess some people here think they're smarter than the President! They think their so-called "right to privacy" is more important than the right of the government to keep an eye on the people and keep insolent and disobedient trouble makers in line. It's the government's business what they look at - not ours - people need to learn to keep their nose out of the government's business!

Sure, why not? That'll make the whole thing go away, won't it?



-Laelth

It's common knowledge that the US spies and other countries do the say damn thing.

What is not common is someone who took and oath for a top secret security clearance and goes running off his mouth in Red China and Russia.

He's nothing more than a traitor in this old veterans eyes!!

But his character seems irrelevant to me. The impact his releases have had (whether the information is new or not) is what matters to me.

His actions have allowed us to have a crucial, worldwide discussion. That, I think, is what's important. I care very little about Snowden's motives or character.

-Laelth

Example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137494

If Snowden was interested in the truth he wouldn't be making false claims and exaggerations.

domestic spying when Bush was President than turning around cooking up excuses to justify it during the Obama presidency? Why they would get laughed and scorned off the board! NO one would EVER respect them EVER again because of their preposterous double standard and cynical disingenuous sophistry. But fortunately we on the liberal/left put principles ahead of partisanship!! Why can't the Republicanbots do the same? I'll tell you why - because unlike us they have NO integrity!

Thought you should know

eom

Not one fucking word you have typed makes it any more Constitutional for our Government to spy on us. Hit pieces on the messenger do not change the message.

Democrats who were against spying under Bush but for it under Obama.

It's like you killed irony, resurrected it, and killed it again.

People change.

and people change a lot once they see things that make them say They lose a lot of youthful idealism. I know I did.

too.

Example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137494

If Snowden was interested in the truth he wouldn't be making false claims and exaggerations.