There IS however a way to compare that (corporatocracy) with the 'totalitarinsim' regimes - with IMPORTANT differences.

Inverted totalitarianism is a term coined by political philosopher Sheldon Wolin to describe what he believes to be the emerging form of government of the United States. Wolin believes that the United States is increasingly turning into an illiberal democracy, and he uses the term "inverted totalitarianism" to illustrate the similarities and differences between the United States governmental system and totalitarian regimes such as Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union

* Whereas in Nazi Germany the state dominated economic actors, in inverted totalitarianism, corporations through political contributions and lobbying, dominate the United States, with the government acting as the servant of large corporations. This is considered "normal" rather than corruption.[6]

* While the Nazi regime aimed at the constant political mobilization of the population, with its Nuremberg rallies, Hitler Youth, and so on, inverted totalitarianism aims for the mass of the population to be in a persistent state of political apathy. The only type of political activity expected or desired from the citizenry is voting. Low electoral turnouts are favorably received as an indication that the bulk of the population has given up hope that the government will ever help them.[7]

* While the Nazis openly mocked democracy, the United States maintains the conceit that it is the model of democracy for the whole world.[8] Wolin writes:

Inverted totalitarianism reverses things. It is all politics all of the time but a politics largely untempered by the political. Party squabbles are occasionally on public display, and there is a frantic and continuous politics among factions of the party, interest groups, competing corporate powers, and rival media concerns. And there is, of course, the culminating moment of national elections when the attention of the nation is required to make a choice of personalities rather than a choice between alternatives. What is absent is the political, the commitment to finding where the common good lies amidst the welter of well-financed, highly organized, single-minded interests rabidly seeking governmental favors and overwhelming the practices of representative government and public administration by a sea of cash.[9]

taking the place of the old aristocratic families, like the Medicis.

Those feudal aristocratic famlies existed uneasily with, within and between various states, much as these multinationals do.

I like the ironic line from that late 80s one-hit wonder Timbuk3: "The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades."

with near the unease that feudal aristocracies did. Trade agreements make for their comfort.

easy time of it (and Luther broadly supported suppression of the peasants' revolts). I'm going to need to break out some of my history books of medieval and Renaissance Europe this weekend. The parallels are not exact, but this sense that the medieval aristocratic lineages somehow lay outside the realm of temporal states' power seems to match closely my sense that these multi-nationals, albeit nominally publicly owned by their shareholders, also inhabit that strange space that transcends and negates state power.

millenarianism. Thomas Muntzer comes to mind. Ever read Norman Cohn's The Pursuit of the Milleninum? Wonderful book by a great English historian.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Pursuit-Millennium-Revolutionary-Millenarians/dp/0195004566

Thank you so much for your posts- they're really making me think.

It turns the screws only when needed and with extreme prejudice, see occupy.

It is also a declining superpower and a continental empire.

Many similarities with both Rome and Spain at this stage.

I'm not interested in contradicting that, just curious about the specifics that you see.

The spending in the military over infrastructure, or other needs, at home. Rome had a world class plumbing system, but they refused to pay taxes to maintain it...it fell apart...but the legions were still a priority...at the end they used foreign auxiliaries, we are starting to use Mercs.

Spain was a shell, we literally sailed into Manila bay unopposed. Cuba was a relatively easy campaign. The Spanish military looked Impresive, it was a shell.

Both saw extreme poverty with extreme wealth at the top.

Both used circuses, for Rome the coliseum, Spain the Church.

Also at the end Rome established a state religion, and Spain went back to traditional conservative values. (The inquisition was dissolved earlier in the 19th century). You could argue that set the stage for Franco.

We have yet to see the devaluation of the dollar, but will not surprise me, especially now that there is noise of the dollar no longer being the reserve currency.

Also both became centers of trade, and when that was over they were left deindustrialzed, in what was the top economic activity of their era, for Rome there was an agricultural collapse, Spain saw the transfer of silver and gold from the new world to the rest of the continent, because Spain used massive loans to continue to pay for it's excesses...think Chinese loans. For us, we are no longer an industrial power.

They are just patterns in common, that is all. Will the US collapse? I don't think it will survive as a continental state...too many regional differences and they are getting wider.

but I was thinking more of the 16th and 17th centuries. By the time of Manila Bay, Spain was no longer a superpower.

As for the collapse of the U.S., those kinds of predictions are too rich for my blood, but I don't see disintegration of the U.S. into regional states. At least not in the next couple of decades, and who dares make predictions farther out than that?

And seemingly out of the blue...like another continental empire, the USSR.

And yes, the Spain of the Bourbons and the reforms could also, to a point apply, but while the army is not yet a shell...it is closer to it than people realize. A lot of it's traditional functions, including intel, have been left in the hands of Mercs. But most troubling so have maintenance, logistics and kp.

In a high intensity conflict those people will run, or stay home. And who will maintain and repair the equipment? Who will keep the troops fed? For the record, both the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns have not been high intensity. The last was truly Korea...while Vietnam had it's moments.

The ratio of support to war fighters, trigger pullers, it's 10:1. We no longer have it, since a lot of those support are truly Mercs. What's next? The medical service?

and thank you so much for your kind words, andirondacker. I take it your moniker is indicative of where you live- beautiful place.

I grew up in the the "dacks", but have moved recently for employment. I had hope that we would become a bastion of liberals like VT, but it seems like we've been overtaken by all of the right wingers from downstate and NJ. Not pleasant company to say the least. I do love the aesthetics and wildlife though, and have fond memories of some of the old timers. It's a different place and culture than what I grew up in.

can always find some example or another..."

Herein lies the problem. It didn't look that way to many of the people living in those regimes who had not fallen afoul of their government and who were doing all right economically. After the fall of Germany I met many ex-Nazis in South America who would confide that Hitler was a fine leader and Germany was a great place to live until the war. Of course they weren't Jewish. I read about Russians who feel things were better under the Soviets. They had jobs, a place to live, health care and free education for their children, benefits that have fallen apart and by the wayside under capitalism. The East Germans never were happy but then they had Russian overlords and the Germans and Russians never really liked each other very much.

So the majority of Americans aren't feeling the repression yet unless they've been out there trying to exercise their civil rights like for instance Occupy and finding out they don't have any. Repression doesn't come all at once. It creeps in on soft cat paws before it shows its claws. Instead they are feeling the pinch, the lower wages, the reduction in benefits, the eroding of basic human rights when they encounter our justice system in certain places. Look at this whole movement to take away the rights of women?

I agree we have a corpocracy but it's no different than a theocracy, the only difference being the temples are in the financial districts, the priests are the bankers and CEOs and the rules are oppressive for the rank and file laity or the workers and middle class. The priesthood and clergy make their own rules but they make the laity do penance if they break them by penalizing them with fines, sometimes jail and revoking rights. This is just my opinion, but I don't like what's going on.

how it manifests itself is different. No matter how much religious language one overlays on the Corpocracy, that cannot be obscured.

One measure that I think is interesting as applied to East Germany, the Nazi regime and the U.S.S.R. and the U.S. now, is how desperate are people to escape?

It's always possible that those in the belly of the beast can't see that that's where they are, but I think that the beast is different.

As for your depiction of Russia under Soviet government, I'm sure there were many people who were satisfied with living under Soviet rule, but does the satisfaction of the (perhaps) majority outweigh the minority who were, let's face it, terribly persecuted?

In any case, thanks for your post. I appreciate your perspective.

It went so far as to say that our elections were merely marketing exercises for corporations who spend massive amounts of money to control our views on every aspect of our lives. Its quite the eye opener. At least it was for me.

For anyone interested, its called: Lifting the Veil – Barack Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy
It came out in 2011 and despite the title its not an Obama hit piece. It is, however, very critical of both parties re: the amount of corporate control. So be prepared to see our party taking some criticism.

Heres a link:
http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/lifting-the-veil-barack-obama-and-the-failure-of-capitalist-democracy/

which was also really good. Called PsyWar - – The Real Battlefield is the Mind

it "explores the evolution of propaganda and public relations in the United States, with an emphasis on the “elitist theory of democracy” and the relationship between war, propaganda and class."

Lots of Chomsky in it. That one really pissed me off. You probably know most of whats in it but its still a great watch. It also explored the concept of our "democracy". Hope you like 'em.

http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/psywar-full-version/

the very essence of fascism.

I'd love to them added to.