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npk

(3,660 posts)
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:00 PM Jul 2013

That picture of Trayvon Martin laying dead in the grass

A lot of people have strong opinions that the picture should not have been shown to the general public.

I will say up front that I have believed from the start that this case was racially motivated. That George Zimmerman saw a black kid walking through his neighborhood, and that was the only "crime" in Zimmerman's mind and eyes that ever prompted him to stalk, confront, and then murder Martin. However, I do realize that many people here on DU and many people elsewhere all over the world hold a different view. They believe that Zimmerman was attacked by this young boy, and that Zimmerman, while fearing for his life, had no choice but to pull out his gun and shoot Martin. I know one of those people well. He just called me and told me that he had supported the defense of Zimmerman. He said he was with Zimmerman all the way, until he saw that pic of Trayvon. After seeing the pic he has changed his mind. I believe that for some of those jurors they may have equally been ready to acquit Zimmerman, but perhaps after seeing those pictures of Martin they too may have changed their positions. Sometimes one picture can have that kind of impact. So in that regard I am glad that the jury got to see that picture, and also anyone else that may have been swayed by the Zimmerman's defense. That picture shows that Trayvon was murdered, plain and simple. It shows that this innocent kid could not have done what Zimmerman claims, and that should be an outcry for justice.

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That picture of Trayvon Martin laying dead in the grass (Original Post) npk Jul 2013 OP
Does the jury have this picture? I hope they do. PearliePoo2 Jul 2013 #1
I am going to assume they do, hoping I am right... Spazito Jul 2013 #6
If I read the Gawker story correctly.... npk Jul 2013 #7
Yep shown in court, funny how people are trying to pretend otherwise. Rex Jul 2013 #12
Doesn't say anything about that photo, premium Jul 2013 #18
maybe you missed it because it was in the very first sentence Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #21
Thanks. premium Jul 2013 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author premium Jul 2013 #9
Why would it be too prejudicial to the defense? Rex Jul 2013 #10
It adds nothing to the case. premium Jul 2013 #11
Sure it does, it shows the results of the conflict. Rex Jul 2013 #14
Where does it say that the jury saw this photo? nt. premium Jul 2013 #15
It helps to read other peoples posts. Sometimes people post information that answers your lumpy Jul 2013 #25
Right here... pacalo Jul 2013 #47
"low rate" is just here to waste your time... mikeysnot Jul 2013 #23
It adds a GREAT DEAL to the case. It throws into sharp relief pnwmom Jul 2013 #27
Because some members here don't like ANYTHING Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #41
heaven forbid they actually SEE the murdered teenager Skittles Jul 2013 #16
That picture shows a dead young man. It proves nothing about how he died, or why he was killed. aristocles Jul 2013 #2
It does prove Zimmerman lied. Blackford Jul 2013 #8
I also heard no grass or stains on Martin's jeans Myrina Jul 2013 #32
It is a tragic image that would not exist except for a bigot and his gun. Hoyt Jul 2013 #13
Um...really? It proves nothing about how he died? Rex Jul 2013 #42
I've watched it a lot and must have missed that picture. Auntie Bush Jul 2013 #3
Zim claimed he held Trayvon's arms out, but in the photo his hands are under him, alfredo Jul 2013 #20
What it shows is the LACK of any evidence that Trayvon had been involved pnwmom Jul 2013 #28
I agree with you however... jimlup Jul 2013 #4
I think you could have used a stronger word than sucked.. busterbrown Jul 2013 #5
On TV they turned the cameras away mainstreetonce Jul 2013 #19
Cool your jets... jimlup Jul 2013 #46
you must have seen a different trial noiretextatique Jul 2013 #17
No. But legally, the presumption is that Zimmerman is innocent until proved guilty. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #24
Here, you're guilty before you even go in the courtroom! 7962 Jul 2013 #40
Oh. This is simply where people vent. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #43
Kinda like Trayvon was "guilty", sentenced to death, and executed right there MH1 Jul 2013 #49
yeah, and we dont find people "innocent", btw. we find them "not guilty" of specific charges pasto76 Jul 2013 #34
True. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #44
I suspect this photo changed the mind of the man you know because Trayvon was dressed preppy femmedem Jul 2013 #26
I think it's because his clothes are so untouched. Is this the body of a youth pnwmom Jul 2013 #29
excellent point. I agree. n/t femmedem Jul 2013 #30
That is the problem John2 Jul 2013 #31
Yup. Just barely 17 against a man more than 10 years older, at the peak pnwmom Jul 2013 #33
Also i heard it was Zimmerman who was trained in MMA style martial arts. vaberella Jul 2013 #45
This says volumes about your friend matt819 Jul 2013 #35
yup: it should not matter what Trayvon was wearing Skittles Jul 2013 #36
What also shouldn't matter matt819 Jul 2013 #37
correct Skittles Jul 2013 #38
but this is reality, just like the vietnam war got more opposition because of the images and that JI7 Jul 2013 #48
It's clearly irritated some Zimbots ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2013 #39

Spazito

(50,477 posts)
6. I am going to assume they do, hoping I am right...
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:29 PM
Jul 2013

Both the State and the defense enter exhibits such as photos which are not used during testimony but to which the jury will have access to during their deliberations if they request to see them.

npk

(3,660 posts)
7. If I read the Gawker story correctly....
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:31 PM
Jul 2013

This picture was shown in the court on a projection screen.

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
21. maybe you missed it because it was in the very first sentence
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:04 PM
Jul 2013

Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman trial walked jurors through several pieces of evidence on Tuesday, including photos of Trayvon Martin's dead body.

Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #1)

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
14. Sure it does, it shows the results of the conflict.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:37 PM
Jul 2013

And they did show the picture along with others.

lumpy

(13,704 posts)
25. It helps to read other peoples posts. Sometimes people post information that answers your
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:27 PM
Jul 2013

questions.

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
47. Right here...
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/07/trayvon-martin-body-dead-george-zimmerman/

The fact that his mouth is open & there is congestion in his nose highly suggests that Trayvon was screaming for his life that evening.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)
27. It adds a GREAT DEAL to the case. It throws into sharp relief
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:31 PM
Jul 2013

Zimmerman's claim of a fight-to-the-death. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, bashing his head into the concrete, how is it that his light-colored pants are so pristine? No way was this boy involved in a violent fight on the ground, in the rain.

 

Blackford

(289 posts)
8. It does prove Zimmerman lied.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:33 PM
Jul 2013

There is clearly no blood on Martin's hands and there is clearly no grass stains on his clothes, thus Zimmerman's account of a struggle in the grass and a pounding pf his head multiple times fails the test of the physical evidence. The prosecution brought this up in the closing arguments.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
32. I also heard no grass or stains on Martin's jeans
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:52 PM
Jul 2013

I can't bring myself to look at it but someone on another thread said there's no grass or stains on Martin's knees so how could he have been in top of Z, beating him & "bashing his head to the pavement"...

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
13. It is a tragic image that would not exist except for a bigot and his gun.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:37 PM
Jul 2013

The image is bad enough, but I also read that when the police arrived they kept shouting for Trayvon to show his hands. The whole thing makes me sick.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
42. Um...really? It proves nothing about how he died?
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:05 PM
Jul 2013

This must be Bizarro DU. I could swear a bullet and somebodies gun kinda proves how he died.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
3. I've watched it a lot and must have missed that picture.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:13 PM
Jul 2013

I don't see why seeing it would change someone's mind. I didn't change any evidence...except to show he's dead and I think everyone already knew that.

alfredo

(60,077 posts)
20. Zim claimed he held Trayvon's arms out, but in the photo his hands are under him,
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:00 PM
Jul 2013

not spread out. Trayvon's hands were on his wound. That is important for adding weight to the state's argument that Zim is lying.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)
28. What it shows is the LACK of any evidence that Trayvon had been involved
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:32 PM
Jul 2013

in a violent fight on the ground in the rain, or that he had been on top of Zimmerman. Look at those pants! There's no way they were in the kind of fight Zimmerman described.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
4. I agree with you however...
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:16 PM
Jul 2013

I think that the defense team did an adequate job of instilling "reasonable doubt." Because our criminal system is and should remain based on this high standard I believe that Zimmerman should be found innocent. The jury should not be swayed by emotion but they probably will be to some extent.

Yes, that Zimmerman did what he did sucks but we need to change the laws concerning guns in Florida.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
5. I think you could have used a stronger word than sucked..
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:27 PM
Jul 2013

Tell that to his mom... Zimmerman against the dispatchers orders followed Martin until the kid realized he was being followed..How the hell can you ignore that!!

mainstreetonce

(4,178 posts)
19. On TV they turned the cameras away
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:55 PM
Jul 2013

whenever pictures of the body were shown. The jury saw pictures from the scene and autopsy pictures.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
46. Cool your jets...
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:24 PM
Jul 2013

I firmly believe this was racism and I wasn't talking to his mom. I was talking to my fellow DU posters.

This place has become less and less friendly in the last few years.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
17. you must have seen a different trial
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:52 PM
Jul 2013

because there was no "evidence" presented that confirmed zimmerman's version of events.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
24. No. But legally, the presumption is that Zimmerman is innocent until proved guilty.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:08 PM
Jul 2013

So the prosecution has to prove guilt.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
40. Here, you're guilty before you even go in the courtroom!
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:50 PM
Jul 2013

Some of the vitriol here is awful. And not just on this thread. Downright hatred many times. I wonder how some go through their lives with any happiness when I read some comments.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
43. Oh. This is simply where people vent.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:39 PM
Jul 2013

Most DUers are probably kind, delightful people if you meet them in person and work with them.

That is why DU is a good place, especially good for people who need a place to just express themselves without repression or criticism.

So, I think we should relax a bit.

Years after the OJ trial, people were angry in LA that he had gotten off. But criminals tend to repeat their crimes. If Zimmerman does go free, he will face a huge test to stay free. His record is one of physical violence, and this act was kind of a peak in that violence.

DUers are not violent types in my opinion. There is virtually no violent expression here. Frustration yes. But not violent expression. And if a violent remark is made, it is cleaned off the website so that the general tenor is one of discussion, sometimes vigorous, but not violent or out of control.

The Zimmerman trial, regardless how it turns out, will set off a firestorm of frustration. So did the OJ trial. And so did a number of other trials. Perfect justice is impossible to achieve.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
49. Kinda like Trayvon was "guilty", sentenced to death, and executed right there
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:55 PM
Jul 2013

on the spot by George Zimmerman, eh?

pasto76

(1,589 posts)
34. yeah, and we dont find people "innocent", btw. we find them "not guilty" of specific charges
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:02 PM
Jul 2013

you should really think about that word, innocent, and zimmerman. They are polar opposites.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
44. True.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:43 PM
Jul 2013

And if someone should have been found guilty and wasn't, it is very difficult for them to live their life without getting into trouble again. There are exceptions, but the people who do it were either clearly falsely accused (the DNA cases, for example) or struggle with themselves. I'm sure it is not easy.

If a person gets into trouble, is somehow charged in a criminal case involving violence or theft, drugs or alcohol or the use of a weapon and is not convicted, that person should try to get help. May work. May not. But the best thing is to get help of some kind.

Even being charged is a difficult burden. Even being involved in a civil lawsuit can be a nightmare. It depends on the case, but it is not nearly as easy as some think.

femmedem

(8,207 posts)
26. I suspect this photo changed the mind of the man you know because Trayvon was dressed preppy
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:29 PM
Jul 2013

Your friend or acquaintance had probably formed an image of him dressed in whatever he thinks a gang member wears.

It sounds like he was unconsciously racist and thought of Trayvon as a dangerous thug until the photo helped him see Trayvon as a kid. I can at least give him kudos for being flexible enough to change his mind, and big enough to admit it.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)
29. I think it's because his clothes are so untouched. Is this the body of a youth
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:33 PM
Jul 2013

who was just involved in a fight to the death? No way.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
31. That is the problem
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jul 2013

with the picture. Trayvon looks like a kid and you can also see how slim he is compared to Zimmerman's size. He doesn't even look like he was in a fight, even in a fight against a person who fought for his life. It is hard to see this slim kid beating Zimmerman to death much less manhandling him. What Zimmerman's trainer claims about Trayvon's physical stature to Zimmerman doesn't fit. You can easily see how Zimmerman manhandles and pushed this kid down, or even held Trayvon in place, just from seeing how slim he looked. Trayvon looked like a kid and not this physical speciman. That is the problem seeing an actual photo of him.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)
33. Yup. Just barely 17 against a man more than 10 years older, at the peak
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:58 PM
Jul 2013

of muscle development, and 40 or 50 pounds heavier.

vaberella

(24,634 posts)
45. Also i heard it was Zimmerman who was trained in MMA style martial arts.
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:03 PM
Jul 2013

I'm trying to wrap my head around a guy trained in martial arts uses a gun when he has the ability to take down, an untrained kid.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
35. This says volumes about your friend
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:02 PM
Jul 2013

So, a dead Trayvon Martin in the abstract is okay, a black kid justifiably killed by a white George Zimmerman.

But, a picture of a dead Trayvon Martin stirs, what, some sort of compassion? An alternate world view?

That your friend lacks the capacity to understand Martin's death without a photo documenting it is disgusting. I don't know your friend's political views, but I would suggest that those on the the other side of the aisle are pathologically incapable of appreciating other people's problems without the visual reference (and even then they just don't care, so it probably wouldn't make a difference).

Skittles

(153,193 posts)
36. yup: it should not matter what Trayvon was wearing
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:09 PM
Jul 2013

preppy clothes, gang clothes, dressed in drag - he wasn't doing anything wrong

matt819

(10,749 posts)
37. What also shouldn't matter
Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:12 PM
Jul 2013

is that a picture of a dead kid, whatever he's wearing, whatever he looks like, whatever his color, should not be necessary to draw some compassion for an unexpected, tragic, and utterly preventable death.

JI7

(89,271 posts)
48. but this is reality, just like the vietnam war got more opposition because of the images and that
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:49 AM
Jul 2013

girl who was burned running down naked .

look at sandy hook and how the early support for gun control started to go away a bit with time. i wonder if people actually saw the pics of the kids shot would make a difference.

there are people for who images make it more real to them.

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