General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGeorge Zimmerman is a 'law abiding gun owner'
Legally declared so by the state of Florida.
Which just shows that 'law abiding gun owners' are a menace to public safety just as much as officially criminal ones.
To our friends on the Gungeon: may you be surrounded by law abiding gun owners such as Zimmerman. Leave your skittles at home.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)He might even be a martyr like Randy Weaver or something.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)He shot an insolent black person and got away with it.
He's the face of American gun culture.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)or a staff
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Trayvon would still be here, and you'd be sad.
name not needed
(11,660 posts)to be the case.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Your insults and board brush are just
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)by gungeoneers. They will consider him the same now. And some will celebrate his so-called "self dense use of a gun."
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...will celebrate anything connected with the Martin shooting including yesterday's verdict.
OTOH, "self dense" is a good description of GZ.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Some, damn sure supported Zman. Others choose to remain in the gungeon where they are protected from criticism for their bad habits.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)First I don't "tote" a firearm, nor do I carry concealed. I don't open carry, either. I don't do any of those things with or without other "gungeoneers". To the best of my knowledge, I've not met in person another DU member.
I see your memories of the gungeon are faulty.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and what you do to stay out of jail when you pull a Zimmerman (ie, shoot an innocent person).
Gungeoneers are against all attempts like micro-stamping, registration, powder marking, etc., because they are afraid they might get caught if they screw up.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)I'm all down with microstamping and powder-marking (Never heard of it, but interesting concept). I'm just not certain if it'd be as effective as you think it may be.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)mechanism. Ain't that nice and law-abiding. They also are against it in case they sell a gun in the back alley, or elsewhere without a background check, and the gun is used in a crime down the road. They want no responsibility.
My favorite was still the thread about making sure to turn off your cell phone after calling police when they shoot someone, so that no one hears something that raises suspicion.
I'm sorry, most gun owners may follow the law (of course, they study it to know when they can blast away just like Zimmerman), but they aren't morality-abiding when the tuck one or two in their pants before walking among the public, or acquiring assault style weapons for use in some coming domestic war.
I'm sick of the gun nuts, who are usually bigots just like Zimmerman.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)What few posts that mention filing off microstamping seem to be done -solely- to troll you, and it looks like you bit the hook rather hard on most of them. Likewise, most posts that insist on illegal action against gun-control legislation seem to be trolling, and given the history of some of those PPRed regulars, it's not exactly unexpected. I can't say that any of the more reasonable (read; non-Troll) RKBA crew would inherently be opposed to most of what you've brought up here.
See, this is what I don't get, Hoyt. I read back through the archives, and at one point, you seemed to be a gun controller I agreed with on most issues. Then, for some reason, over a month, your arguments devolved until they hit the level of "Just for shits" dickery, and that's what has always puzzled me about you. You're definitely smart, you do have (at the very least) average debate skills, and yet you got yourself banned out of the Gungeon... For what? Fun? You're obviously capable of having an intelligent discussion, I guess I just don't understand why you went the route you did.
Also, a brief statement on morality: It's subjective. That's the problem with "Moral" arguments. What you see as moral, others see as immoral, and visa versa.
Either way, that's neither here nor there. I promise you, most of us genuine left-wing gun-owners are just as sick of the lunatic-fringe of the gun control issue as well. The only really pressing issue between our two groups, as I told BainsBane, is the fringe extremists on either side. As it stands, we're trying to bring reasonable and progressive debate to the gun violence issue, but we're fighting the whackos on the right and the loonies on the left, and we're finding the necessity to defend ourselves against both fronts. I -agree- with you on the "If it saves 10%" bit, but I honestly don't think it will. Filing and powder tracking can only be done after a murder, and while I cannot speak for you, I prefer to preempt the crime at it's source rather than treating a tool of said crime.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Have yourself a good day.
PsychGrad
(239 posts)People were lighting off fireworks in celebration of the not guilty verdict.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)I don't fully understand but thanks.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts):vomit: is right.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)the American Gun Culture.
and what you are saying about Trayvon even in sarcasm is disgusting.
I realize emotions are running high today over the verdict but, to turn on good, respected, donating DUers is just
Not Right or Good at all.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)
Kali This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)They were glued to this case.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Congratulations on making what is without a doubt THE most fucked up accusation against fellow members I've seen here. Bigger congratulations on getting away with it.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)I'm sure you apply the same process to everyone else found not guilty in a court of law.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Forgive us if we accurately view the concept of a law abiding gun owner to be a joke.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)the right to own guns? That would be quite a departure for you.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Or is your contention Zimmerman isn't a danger but should be free to kill again?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)I might also add there is more of a threat towards him than the average person.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Does that bother you at all? Do you care at all about his next victim? Did you care at all about his last victim?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)Using the logic portion of my brain, something I recommend you try, I deduce that he will go out of his way not to have to go through the fiasco that resembled a trial again.
So no, I'm not worried that he is going to start shooting up the place.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)or that he killed an unarmed boy walking home from the store? Why is Zimmerman's life more valuable than his victims? Because he carries a gun? Being a killer makes him better than someone who follows the law and minds his own business?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)... it should be evaluated by the same legal standard that anyone else would get.
I don't know why you are obsessed with which life is more valuable. I can tell you that if I feel that I am going to die or suffer grave bodily harm at the hands of another, that I will do everything I can do make it stop up to and including lethal force.
You can curl up in a ball and accept your fate if you like...
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That the prosecution could not prove his guilt doesn't mean the killing was justified. He stalked and killed a young boy. He will continue to kill. And I have no doubt he has already spawned gun nuts to go hunting for their very own black male.
Curl up in a ball? That is a completely delusional comment. The only reason Z found trouble that night is he went looking for it. He killed for no reason. Trayvon was walking home from the store. That is not a justified use of a weapon.
I'm not going to wind up in a jam like that because I'm not a paranoid lunatic. Normal people don't act like vigilantes. That is what killers do. Zimmerman got away with murder. That doesn't mean he is any less a killer or that the killing was justified. It clearly was not. Murder is evil. I hope he and every last gun nut killer like him rots in hell.
You say you want civil conversation and then support a murderer who kills innocent children? You show no concern about the lives of his victims and worry only about the killer? What kind of person are you?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)of my entire life. I will not be responding to your posts in the future, and I ask you to do the same.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #79)
Post removed
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That is humanity, just basic humanity.
Yes, I have lived a fortunate life in that I do not know killers or those who privilege killers above law abiding teenagers minding their own business. I would bet most people don't know anyone like that. Most of those people are in prison where they belong.
Blackford
(289 posts)He's never used a gunh illegally and more important, he used a gun in self defense legally sanctioned by the state.
That makes George Zimmerman a RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.
And gun nuts wonder why that "responsible gun owner" bullshit is just that, bullshit.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and follow young black men in 38 different states.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)He was well versed in the whole ideology of walking around with a loaded gun. He's not just any old responsible gun owner, he's almost the platonic ideal of responsible gun ownership.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)We just couldn't prove he was a irresponsible gun owner.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)I'm serious about the rule of law. You're serious about your own prejudices. The latter is the real tragedy.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)So no need to respond with that BS.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)That's fine.
"And, yes, I'm bigoted against gun nuts, and their racism."
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)his bigotry ... not so much.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Just sayin'...
bvar22
(39,909 posts)AS much as you would like to tar All Law Abiding Gun Owners with the Zimmerman Brush,
the dictates of Logic prevent that.
*Zimmerman is a Law Abiding Gun Owner.
*Therefore, Law Abiding Gun Owners are Cold Blooded Stalking Murderer of Unarmed Black Children.
You CAN see the problem with this type of thinking?
Can't you?
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)nebenaube
(3,496 posts)Now chain those and many other inferences together, add an weighted coefficient for each element and you might be treading into a state secrets zone...
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)and soon to be many more.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Visiting your wife after you are gone to work twenty times because she was a crime victim? Ordering you out of the community pool to prove you belonged there, calling 911 on the landlord, the pizza delivery guy, kids in the street, open garage doors, black roofers, anyone black. He's a menace. Like having a loose rottweiller patrol the property.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)You should swing past some time, have yourself a coolada and waffles
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)and "own" the words but, really it is not helping and only serves to further confuse other DUers.
Do you understand what I am saying here.
but, Yes, do make new DUers feel welcome to any DU Group.
Thank you for understanding.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)I understand your point, but I cannot agree with it, brother. I will try to refrain from confusing the newbies, at any rate, for what little that may be worth.
ON EDIT: Wait a minute, he's been here longer than I have. o.O
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)the most famous word I can think of starts with N ... but, that still does not make it right.
And it is still nasty to be called those words just like it is nasty to be called the N word.
Please, I know we have to use humor in there a lot to deflect all the bigotry but, at some point,
it just is getting ridiculous.
Today is not the day, I think.
It is just too serious and emotions are running way too high.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)I genuinely consider myself, and those I shoot with, gun nuts. We tag each other with the name, and we refer to ourselves thusly. It's as second-nature to me as calling myself Russian or American. I'm not just trying to make a point, but it's how I identify.
However, I suppose I could change that, at least for a few days, or try to stay out of the gun issue in GD for a bit, as a courtesy.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)when you are among friends it is fine but, on here, you must remember that you are a minority and as such you are held to a higher standard.
We have to be twice as nice and do twice as much to get half the respect, you understand what I am saying here.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)In the middle of a halfway-decent dialogue with Hoyt, of all people. However, if you would prefer, would you rather bring this to PM, seeing as we're essentially talking at one another?
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)TROLLS. I beg of you. That word has a connotation that can get one PPR'd around here. It is not cute or funny and has dangerous implications on this board.
SunSeeker
(51,572 posts)It is the "RKBA" (right to keep and bear arms) group; guess the nickname comes from the contraction of "gun dungeon." It's for folks who love their guns and are against most forms of gun control.
They are not to be confused with the relatively newly formed "Gun Control Reform Activism" group, who favors gun control.
Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You should take advantage of Decoy of Ferris's offer and check it out sometime.
A recent thread extolled the virtues of a speech by a gun proponent chastising the families of the Sandyhook victims and proclaiming "My rights trump your dead."
Whatever image you have in your head about gun nuts can't compare to reality.
Baitball Blogger
(46,736 posts)People like him never stay on the straight and narrow.
NealK
(1,870 posts)Sorry for this to be so macabre but that's what it was: A lynching, with a gun. That guy is a racist scumbag
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I wasn't sure if I should post it.
Taft_Bathtub
(224 posts)When laws allow for murder, being law-abiding doesn't mean much.
AndyA
(16,993 posts)He had a restraining order against him for beating around on a woman. He also hit a cop. Can you say anger management problem? This guy absolutely should not be permitted to possess a gun!
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)I think I'm good.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)This trial showed Zimmerman to be reckless and dangerous when he confronted Martin and reports of his previous bad behavior is also very troublesome, but he has not been proven to be a law breaker in court yet.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)although it may be enough to pull a CCW permit depending on FL law.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Because of what less than 1% do with them? You want to change the laws to make you feel better?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)these so-called law abiding gun owners are. There is nothing more dangerous that someone who believes himself ENTITLED to kill.