not even a full-fledged employee...

what does that mean?

and not sure of your original point

and no one at Booz Allen is an employee of the govt.

Tho most all of them have had prior experience in intel agencies. Booz Allen is the home of various people who have conspired to assassinate elected leaders, etc. etc. in violation of our laws. But it's okay because they're too wealthy and white to have to follow the law.

A buncha George W. Bush clones, iow, except probably not as stupid, but who knows.

As far as Snowden - he worked for those guys.

but I don't see the point, there are hundreds of thousands of contractors. Here in Hawaii there are almost 15,000 alone. I am wondering what the linking point is in this sub-topic

to clarify for that person.

And this situation is an example of how fucked up this nation is. If you're working for the govt. doing the same work, you can't make as much money as you can working for a private company that bills the govt (while adding another layer of management to the costs) and removing accountability to the American people.

...which I know you know, since you work in the industry.

What's going on is a crime against democracy.

and have since the overthrow of Mossedegh - and the whole thing went on steroids when Ronnie Raygun was in office (and before, since he conspired with a foreign govt. to influence the American election with Iran-Contra.)

To me, he and the whole lot of them belonged in prison.

I have no doubt the private intel agencies are doing the same sort of Republican rat fucking and imperial crimes because they think they're entitled and we all just live in their world.

While the truth is that we'd all be better off without what they've done, for the most part, since they've been in existence.

is a joint use facility. Meaning that it is contractors, DOD civilians (Federal workers) and Enlisted, Warrant Officers, and Officers of all four branches. Snowden worked in a section that had all three types of people in it, and if he or anyone else claims otherwise, they are full of shit. That building in Wahiawa, Oahu is joint use. Drive up to it on any day and you will see all three types going in there.

Almost everyone he worked with was a government employee. Booz allen has a small admin staff in Honolulu, they have a few dozen contractors on island, the remaining hundreds of people they work with are all government employees. I am not arguing or being a dick, I am just pointing out an error in your post. That's all man.

I fall into that boat as well, there are three contractors on this island in my job role. Three of us, we work with hundreds of soldiers. My boss is in D.C. thousands of miles away. With the exception of the three I work with nearly everyone in our building is a government employee.

the point of my post is that Booz Allen is not part of the govt, tho, not whether he shared physical space with others who were in the govt.

How is it set up? Why are some in the military and some not? Are there general levels of years of experience, educational levels, etc. that determine whether someone is a private or military intel person?

Or is private intel the retirement place for former military, as it is for intel bureaucrats?

is definitely a retirement place for many intel people. Thats how I got here. Military contractors prefer hiring former military people, there is less of the type of stuff that Manning and Snowden have been accused of. Not bashing or supporting either guy, just pointing out that military contractors prefer military people because USUALLY (not always) they do their jobs and don't rock the boat. And yes there are levels of experience. Journeyman, Senior Analyst and Master Analyst are three in my company. We hire journeyman level people with degrees in Intelligence but no military time, as well as anyone with less than 8 years experience. Senior and Master obviously have higher requirements.

that not too many people would learn the craft of, if not for their former military experience.

Nevertheless, I oppose the entire idea of private intel contractors for the same reason that I oppose the use of mercenaries like Blackwater.

I'm not, by saying this, implying anything about you, fwiw. I am talking about the systemic problem of having people above the law who answer to a very few and not the American people.

That's a fascist's dreamscape.

Again, I don't think everyone involved in such enterprises qualifies for that term - what I am saying is the condition of existence creates the opportunity for just such governmental abuse. Private armies, etc. are not democratic by their very nature.

I think we should have the draft, again, because I don't think we'd have been involved in all these micro-wars against weak powers otherwise. It's a real temptation for a President to start a war to win an election - George W. admitted the same to Mickey Hershkowitz, that Sr. lost his election for that reason.

anyway - the Bush years, and what Cheney and Rumsfeld did vis a vis intel makes me very, very, very unwilling to grant power to private individuals concerning issues as important as national security.

It's the lack of accountability that's the problem.

But, as Oliver North demonstrated, you can wear a uniform and still be a traitor to this nation.

I agree that there needs to be more oversight, but I like my job and feel I can still contribute after I retired. If the screening standards were higher, this might be less of an issue. As for the draft, it works and it doesn't work. There are some jobs that are so technical now that they require nearly a years worth of schooling. If the draft is only two years long you really are not getting much cost benefit out of drafting people for several of these technical schools. And one or two of these are not low density MOS's, there are career fields in the Army with a few thousand people in them each. Those are usually the career fields in the Army at least that have the biggest bonuses to retain people because it is actually cost effective to pay a 50,000 dollar bonus rather than train a brand new person.

Americans should have something at stake when they agree to attack another nation.

Actually, I think that Gen. Smedley Butler had the right idea - the way to stop wars based upon the greed of corporate entities is to take the profit out of war.

Let people earn government salaries, not private contractor salaries.

Let people pay taxes to fund the wars they claim they want - it's unfreaking believable that Jr. waged two war and reduced taxes on the wealthy at the same time.

Since Republicans have so little fiscal responsibility, someone needs to impose the real costs in other ways - and a draft would do that. Of course, we'd still have Cheneys who avoid all threat of danger and then send others to their deaths with impunity - but his generation stopped an unnecessary war because of the draft (which is, ultimately, why we no longer have one.)

Just as Republicans and Democrats have switched sides on issues since Lincoln, I'm one of those liberals who thinks the U.S. should mind its own business more than it does or has. I think a lot of the current problems would not be problems if not for the old, aggressive domino theory, which, imo, was turbo cranked and based upon false intel from WWII immigrants. Not that Russia wasn't aggressive in its own way - but, until someone says... let's be sane about this... things just escalate.

I think "The War on Terror," for instance, was a horrible propaganda ploy. We cannot be at war with something that's not a nation. We can deal with terrorism and terrorists - and that's where intel is so important these days.

And, even better, we can decide not to prop up regimes that create conditions for terrorists.

The two largest expansions of Contractors in military intelligence are Presidents Clinton and Obama. I voted for both guys so that is tough for me to say. Intel contractors started showing up on Army bases in 1996 when I was a young E-5. 9/11 happened and Bush made it a larger issue with the outsourcing of contract work for Intel. President
Obama got us out of Iraq but kept authorizing Defense budgets or other funding programs that kept hiring contractors. We are leaving Afghanistan next year and the contract positions are still going up, not going down. You are arguing morality and many of us are feeding our families because we have unique skills that government wants to make use of. Granted I and others work for corporations, but our customer is the government. We exist at their behest and do the work they task organize and contract us to do. I am not saying government is bad, wrong or evil. However any work a contractor is doing for Intelligence is work that has been ordered to be performed by the government. The only difference is who is issuing the paychecks. The government pays the contracting company to do the job, the contracting company hired the worker to do the job paying him or her with funds from the government. I, and others are doing what the government is paying us to do. In essence I am earning a government salary after the contracting company takes their cut. If I converted to a Federal position (of which none exist for the unique work I do,) I would not be taking a pay cut at all, Intel contractors make on par with what their few federally employed peers make.

Democrats are going to appeal to their voting base and they know it looks good on paper to shift this sort of work to private contractors.

But both parties are beholden to military contractors, etc. and campaigns are financed in such ways that neither party can step on those toes without massive public outcry to force it. Republicans have more of a political interest in looking like they're funding the military because, god bless 'em, such a stance appeals to their voter base.

And, since some flaunt it and some hide it, well... the world keeps spinning round.

...cause the bottom line is to maintain the largest military presence (govt or private) in the world in as many places in the world as possible. the military is the only "welfare program" the Republicans don't hate and Democratic willingness to interfere in other nations' sovereignty goes back to Truman and has never stopped.

I don't think govt is all good or bad, either. And the difference between neoconservatives and neoliberals is not that much, in terms of issues of national security.

I understand, too, that I'm on the outside looking in, and if you are someone who is tasked with protecting national security - that's a heavy burden to bear and it's natural that people would err on the side of caution.

I also think Samantha Powers has strong arguments to make in "A Problem From Hell" about the need for nations to sometimes help others who are the victims of genocidal campaigns. But I think these should be multi-national with specific goals in response to specific situations.

But, again, private contracting, for me, holds the same problems that private prisons do - in terms of having profit as a motive that is much more of a driver than having govt. as the repository for this work, which people will scrutinize more heavily, just in the general population, when issues of how tax dollars are spent is on the table.

But, Congress has ways around that, too, with agriculture bills, etc. From what I have read, and maybe this isn't correct, but funding for things is often tucked into more innocuous-sounding spending.

And a lot of money that's for the war on drugs goes to military contractors - the bulk of it, in fact, so there's that. And there's really, really not much oversight there, it seems - at least based on the last Senate sub-committee report I saw.

do people go back and forth, at Snowden's level, between the CIA and private contractors, or, once you're out, you're out?

He was in the military, then went to the CIA, then to a private contractor. I would assume that's the usual career path, unless someone bypasses the military by going directly into a govt. job.

back at forth.

Many enlisted military go contractor first because there are literally thousands more jobs of this type, Federal jobs are few and far between in various Intelligence disciplines. And the CIA and NSA actually don't hire all that many former military. The CIA especially has a snobby attitude about former military, preferring to hire Ivy League School graduates with no experience, but a nice "pedigree". There are two intelligence universes, the CIA and NSA with their snobby attitude and then the various contractors and smaller agencies the DIA, NRO, etc.........The CIA and NSA is a private club you normally have to get invited into and they don't like the common grunt Intel person from the Army.

and that's based upon its history as the OSS and that whole elitism thing that goes on in America, with those with monied families assuming their "rightful places" to keep this country friendly for their CEO, etc. neighbors.

This is why our military, imo, has been used wrongly so many times. I hate to be entirely cynical, but it would be hard to convince me that the last Iraq War was anything other than Bush Jr. making the world safe for the oil cos that were dividing up the nation with Cheney during Energy Policy meetings long before 9-11. That was just the pretext to go into Iraq and Jr., with his lack of intelligence, could easily go for the "revenge foh ma daddah" b.s. Not that Hussein wasn't an ass - but he was an ass of our making.

So, that's why I ask... why are those who put him in power not held accountable, here, for doing so. And the reason why is because there are some, those elitists, who think they are a law unto themselves and the hoi polloi be damned.

Since Snowden didn't have the right credentials for the CIA, he must have been good or useful (i.e. talented or the sacrificial ratfucker... I still have no idea which) to end up there - or is that taking it too far and the reality is that there are enough people who end up working for the CIA, at least since 9-11, who aren't part of the club, that this isn't an issue?

job because he needed one or two more pieces to make a more complete picture. Before that he'd been at Dell, possibly as a contractor since they do the same work, and at CIA**. Remember he said he had all the station chiefs' names and locations? He's been doing this for years.

He worked in Switzerland for a bit, and in Japan and in the Ft. Meade area, but I am not clear on his timeline; I wish some paper or magazine would lay that out. Wasn't it four years ago he was insisting that leakers should be shot in the balls?

I also can't understand how he was accepted into an Army program that requires a high school diploma without one--some things are waiverable, I know, but usually the education requirement is a hard-n-fast for programs that require extensive/expensive training. I wonder if the problem with his clearance goes all the way back to his ENTNAC and NAC. If they were gundecked, they're the foundation for everything that came after. Also, I'd love to see his enlistment package, to see if there's a forged diploma in there (it happens).

The other thing I'd like to know about is the "adult onset epilepsy." Is that real, is he medicated, what did his brain scans -- if he had them -- show? That could be the reason for his behavior, right there.

He was in Japan while working for Dell but not all the time. Dell is a huge Bush contributor, you know. And you known the Bush/CIA connection.

Yes, I think there were forged docs in his app. More probably that he hacked and produced a record that didn't exist. That may have been how he got noticed. That school he work for at U of Maryland that's associated with NSA is right creepy. Don't know if he was really a security guard there or not. Then to CIA. Then to Dell. Then to BAH.

It doesn't make sense.

ensures profit will be maximized rather than costly stuff like basic security and oversight?

1. The information was not high level. Snowden released briefing type information, not detailed technical documents which would be held much closer to the vest. They were PowerPoint slides with wide overviews and no details.

2. Much of these revelations were already known for some time and had been reported years ago. What possibly Snowden added was to put names to the programs.

I make no claims to have the truth here but both these scenarios have been floated here with a variety of support the past few weeks.

But the question the OP asks is a damned good one.

I would have agreed with both your points until this happened.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

hard to characterize it. It may just be more briefing presentation slides, on the same level as the rest.

It isn't unlikely that what Der Spiegel is reporting is to mischaracterize what they have. News organizations do that; even good ones. Let's see what it is, first.

I am basically with your thinking on this whole affair however. I try not to jump to confusions, so to speak.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

Why dont you spend as much energy trying to find out what Booz-Allen-Hamilton is up to? Or are you afraid of the possible answers??

Oh that's right, you have FAITH in your government to keep you safe and free.

Maybe you didnt see this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262522 Maybe you shouldnt have blind FAITH in your government.

But I know you can't believe everything you read. Neither should you believe everything S&G say.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

warrant an investigation and I believe those that use character assassination (a logical fallacy) are working to conceal what's really going on in our intelligence agencies, either intentionally or not.

If the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, why would you be so willing to acquiesce?

And as soon as Snowden is captured, that process can probably begin. But the longer he seeks to damage our country instead of opt for change, the less likely he makes it that those changes will take place.

We don't know enough about how the NSA works. We should. I have no problem with that. Unfortunately, S&G are showing us very little about how it works with their PowerPoint slides and implied threats.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

when working in a SCIF you must have access from nearly the day you start or you are not earning the money you are being paid as a soldier or a contractor.

If you work in Intelligence, you need access to the varied networks to do your job. Without access you can go mow the grass at the motorpool if you are a soldier or do admin work if a contractor. Your clearance travels with you through JPAS http://news.clearancejobs.com/2012/08/06/what-is-jpas-joint-personnel-adjudication-system/

With JPAS your clearance level can be validated and it can be determined if you need to be "read-on" for a new job. If so once you are read-on you now have access. It really is that simple. What would be insane would have been if Snowden had worked there a few months and had NO access. Why hire someone if they are not already a trusted agent within JPAS?

To get as far as he did implies -to me, at least- that he had inside help. To not get as far as personal data implies that the safeguards and restrictions in place are pretty good.

A conclusion that Carl Bernstein reached, as well.

But he definitely needs to stand trial so we can learn how he was able to steal so much.
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mega-corporation when you can lynch a commoner.

Why dont we start an investigation right now. A special prosecutor? What are you guys afraid of? Dont want to make the Booz-Allen/ Carlyle Group mad?

Whistle-blowers upset the comfortable status quo that some so love to wallow in. Freedom and liberty take work. Having blind FAITH is the lazy way to lose your democracy.

And we should know the result of that investigation so we can be assured it won't happen again.

Maybe when S&G stop issuing lame threats and Snowden stops running to hide, we can get to some central issues regarding the NSA.

And Snowden is probably the best source as to how he was able to steal so much.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

Most likely they will investigate themselves and tell us that they have everything fixed and we can go back to watching American Idol. That would be enough for some that just wish this would all go away so you can believe you are free. What you dont want is for someone to explain how you are not free.

Dont give up your freedoms and liberties for the PROMISE of security. Use reason and not blind FAITH.

But not by the NSA watching my thoughts form as I type. Not by the NSA downloading the Internet on a daily basis or by real-time monitoring of all Internet providers.

All claims made by Snowden without evidence.

And I want to know the result of any investigation of the NSA. I want it to be more transparent and less secret. Maybe if S&G can stop running their mouths everyday, we can focus on that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

Not, at least, within the next 50 years.

Secrecy trumps the public's right to know. That, in a nutshell, is our problem.

-Laelth

We can always override the 'secrecy' fetish but it takes time and hard work to do it through Congress.

The NSA simply needs to be more transparent in general. There are a handful of senators who are on this. Let's hope they keep up the pressure.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

I doubt that your hope is well-founded in reality.

-Laelth

This is where he's hoping to pitch his tent?

Implications on Venezuela for Granting Asylum to Snowden
By The World ? July 15, 2013

Anchor Marco Werman speaks with Venezuelan blogger Francisco Toro about the implications of Venezuela’s government offering asylum to wanted NSA leaker Edward Snowden.

http://soundcloud.com/theworld/071520132-1

First China, now Russia, and on to Venezuela? All three double down on what he claims to be running from. Do you think any of them will give him the run of the place? He's a leaker, so you know they'll never trust him. WTF?

because that's the tip of the iceberg. There are many who would like to subvert the US govt.

* Nice to see you're still posting! I guess it's after hours

...

and in this case, it's to use the mainstream press to smear Obama's administration as somehow worse than Bush, just as the Bush family is spreading out on their Rehab the Bush name tour before they roll out Jeb2016.

You've always had a keen eye for the big picture. The battle for 2016 is beginning to take shape.

in Africa. Seems Obama's doing a lot more to rehab the BFEE than Greenwald EVER could.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/07/15/201571729/in-second-term-obama-takes-softer-tone-toward-bushes

would come from Bush family. Obama was made to feel it was a good deal for the immigration reform he wanted to pass with bi-partisan support. That's how they always do it. You think GWBush just 'happened' to be in Africa helping to build a clinic at the same time the Obamas would be there? Sorry, but the Bushes are masterful at the appearance of doing the right thing while milking it for immediate and future political benefit. Obama is one of the weakest presidencies in modern history, and is certainly not adept at outmaneuvering the Bushes and their powerful circle.

During the Nixon years, Poppy Bush was the goto guy who would even blackmail members of his own Republican party to coerce them into supporting legislation that Nixon wanted. Then Ford made him head of the CIA. For those of us familiar with most every aspect of Bush history, their machinations are fairly easy to spot.

Bush Family Evil Empire, for those who haven't been around as long as some of us.

is providing a service to the Bushes. And, if he did, he would never admit it. From all my encounters with his efforts over the past decade, he doesn't possess the I-may-have-some-of-this-story-wrong gene.

If Greenwald hadn't participated they would have found another useful tool. The NSA narrative was designed to undermine ONLY Obama and has helped to push Obama's numbers down to the point where he is STUCK in yet another dog and pony show starring the Bush family.

think Greenwald has that agenda AT ALL - he's been against domestic spying under both B*sh and Obama. It's a huge difference in goals and impact.

all thank Bill Clinton for that for his remarkable protection of POPPY Bush and Jackson Stephens on BCCI and IranContra crimes against the constitution.

The Dem presidencies have ALL kowtowed to the Bush family, including Carter - not one of them ever accumulated the power necessary to move this country PAST the influence of the Bushes and the powerful elite. Obama never had a chance.

Always interested in elaboration on this,
the usual suspects

I'd guess metadata is not much more secure. Certainly not completely secure - I'm in IT and have worked on government-level secure networks.

The most dangerous leaks aren't the ones we hear about. There's metadata (and probably "real data&quot on congressmen, candidates, donors, and other people Rove would be be very interested in hearing about.

How many leakers didn't/won't go to the press? If Snowden is treated bad, how many potential whistle blowers in the future may decide to use the information "for the better of the country" rather than expose it.

I imagine many people at DU would have been willing to "misuse" Romney metadata they had access to if it was necessary to help Obama win. And no doubt people on the other side would do the same on Obama metadata.

It's very bad to even collect the metadata so broadly since it is pretty easy for many people to justify misusing it "for the better of the country".

I'm disappointed that he didn't get more...If you've decided on going this route of whistleblowing, then go all the way, name names and expose so much information that the entire system falls apart...I'm also wondering why he didn't get his asylum/escape route fully plotted before taking the leap...

Unless of course Snowden is holding out on the REALLY good stuff...

I don't believe that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

First of all intelligence is an oxymoron, I have known several in the field and they proved it every time I talked to them.

Second, when someone is in the intelligence world, they know everything, or at least they are really good at making you believe they do. This must be drilled into them from the day they start because seemingly ignorant people quickly become the smartest people in the world once they join the intel world.

Does he know what he says he does, who knows, I have learned not to believe anyone from that profession. It is personal experience. What he has everyone thinking he knows and what he probably does know is most likely enough to do damage. And that is what everyone is excited about on both side of the love him/hate him conversation.

How does he know it? Don't ask him because if he told you he would have to kill you!

thanks for letting you know what you think of me before you even know me.

you don't know me, but you seem to want to prejudge me and all other analysts.

you are not getting any of my PII.....So try again.

And if you don't want to trust me that's your business.

But I was a 96B/35F for 20 years. I am now a contractor doing Intel work in Hawaii. I am curious what constitutes as proof for you.

Especially not concerning this case. Nice try on your part.

I just said no PII from me. You don't have to believe me.

I am not trying anything. I even asked what constituted proof?

And, when it comes to this case, the risk of liars claiming a bunch of bullshit as fact is extremely high.

For the third time what constitutes proof for you?

well then we will agree to disagree. No one is getting my full name, apparently you missed the part about PII and me not giving any.

Prior employers (in this case will be units)

1992 1st Brigade S-2, 2nd Infantry Division Camp Casey South Korea
1993-1995 2nd Armored Division G-2 Fort Polk/Fort Hood, Louisiana/Texas The division moved to Hood while I was there.
1995-1999 Fort Hood 1994-1996 2nd Cav Squadron S-2, 12th Cav Regiment 1996-1999 Division ACE detachment 4th Infantry Division
1999-2002 1st Military Intelligence Battalion, 66th Military Intelligence Wiesbaden, Germany
2002-2003 (COT consecutive overseas tour) 2nd Infantry Division G-2 Camp Red Cloud, South Korea
2003-2007 1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Division S-2 Fort Riley, Kansas (deployed 2004 as a follow on to the Brigade in Ramadi, Iraq)
2007-2010 2nd Brigade (Stryker) S-2, 25th Infantry Division Schofield Barracks, HI (deployed to Taji, Iraq December 2007)
2010-2012 USAICOE 35F Instructor Fort Huachuca, AZ (Retired)
2013 Embedded Intelligence Mentor (Unnamed Corporation) 25th Infantry Division G-2

And you also are not getting my ERB from my time in service. I will continue to post as someone with job experience in Intel, you can continue to not believe me. Others can decide for themselves.

If I get hacked, my first response is not going to be, "oh that little @&$#!"

My first response would be to kick myself for allowing such a thing to happen, because I probably messed up somewhere security-wise. How much do you want to bet that they changed nothing procedure-wise, so that another Snowden can just go ahead and do the same thing?

How much of this info was relevant to his job? How could he have that much information?

Amerika. They completely avoid certain threads that discuss problems with out government. They much rather assassinate characters.

Here is an example:

"The executive, legislative and judicial branches of government have been taken over by corporations and used to protect and promote the criminal activity of Wall Street, the destruction of the ecosystem by the fossil fuel industry, the looting of the U.S. Treasury by the banking industry and the corporate seizure of all major centers of power. The primacy of corporate profit trumps our right to a living wage, affordable and adequate health care, the regulation of industry and environmental controls, protection from corporate fraud and abuse, the right to a good and affordable public education, the ability to form labor unions, and having a government that serves the basic needs of ordinary citizens. Our voices, our rights and our aspirations are no longer of concern to the state. And if we try to assert them, the state now has mechanisms in place to shut us down."
posted in http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023264521

Wake up and smell the tyranny.

But there are thousands of people with this level of access. I am retired military (Analyst myself) and I have had similar access since I was 19 years old. If the analysts involved with the work cannot have access, why would the even have the job. Once you have been given your security clearance, once you have been "read-on" once you have your caveats in place, you have access from that point forward until you are either "read-off" or you quit or you ETS from the military. I work in a building right now in HAWAII where there are 200 hundred people with very similar access ranging in age from 18-48. I don't understand why you are surprised, access is given on day one if you have the clearance and caveats. Once you are read-on you are authorized to use any systems on JWICS to do your job. This is the only way it can be or else the work cannot be done.

You would agree they need to tighten up the ship.

but not by much. Just better screening. I have no problem with the number of people with access. Maybe a better mental profile would be a solution.

President Merkin Muffley: General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you *assured* me there was *no* possibility of such a thing *ever* occurring!
General "Buck" Turgidson: Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.

level secrets than he was cleared for. It's a thought. I think the real problem is that our security has been outsourced to private companies. These kind of files should be kept under lock and key within the agency who is gathering the information. No need for outsiders here particularly outsiders who seem to be rather careless about whom they hire and how they protect the information.

Only one network in the building. If you don't have access you can't even get in the building.

to Booze Allen. Somebody didn't look very closely at whom they were hiring. What is wrong with our government agencies doing their own work and keeping it within the confines of government?

I am also a Private contractor working for a subcontractor, and I also do Intelligence work and I am also in Hawaii. I don't do SIGINT work though so I am different from Snowden in that regard.

And there is nothing wrong with our government, there are not enough trained people in the government to do the work that must be done. For example, I just did twenty years in the Army and am retired from the service. I wanted to continue doing Intelligence work, my options were stay in past my twenty and not get my choice of assignments, reduced pay, etc, or retire after 20 become a contractor doing the same work as before, not being forced to PCS and I got a hefty raise.

The only thing the govt. did wrong with Snowden is not perform a thorough mental health assessment on him.

It's just too Republican for my liking. If they used the money they pay to the contractors, they would be able to train enough people to do the job.

hi, we don't know each other, so I just want us to talk like two normal people that are cool with each other.

I was in the Army for 20 years and saw the rise of contracting. The first contractors in military intelligence at the tactical level started showing up around 1996, they expanded their numbers under Bush and 9/11. When President Obama took office in 2008, the numbers increased even more. They even have contractors down at the company level now (company is about 100 soldiers or so). No one in government wants to get rid of contractors, they are surviving the sequester cuts quite nicely compared to the Federal workers. The sad truth is that the government prefers contractors to more Federal workers.

It was not a good thing.

than with job duties. A system admin needs to be able to access the systems he's administering. Analysts typically have much less access, since clearances are on a need-to-know basis. IT employees are more like electricians in that they need to have wide access to do their jobs.

NSA is one of the most secure organizations in the world, but you can't hide everything from the people whose job it is to work with it.

most low level analysts are getting caveats for all sorts of levels beyond their immediate work. And that is a government problem. I am not saying the snowden issue is a govt. problem, but Privates and Specialists probably dont need all the caveats they are given when they are read on here in PACOM.

so I would defer to your experience.

What is frustrating about the way the Snowden case has unfolded is that providing too many clearances to low level analysts is the kind of issue that should be addressed by the 'national discussion' this has provoked. Instead, 90% is on a level that is so simplistic that it's difficult to see anything being done as a result.

Maybe our so-called national security state is a bullshit sham and with the usurpation of the state by corporate power, there is a networked corporate club that has access to all intelligence now. Maybe it's not hard to access intelligence at all if you're in the club. Could be.

Stranger things are happening.