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Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 12:52 PM Jul 2013

In Ohio, Zimmerman would have been guilty!

Because in Ohio, a defendant claiming self-defense had a burden to prove their story. Thanks to Ruby the Liberal for pointing it out.

If Zimmerman had to prove his story about the night he killed Trayvon, rather than letting a dead victim be presumed guilty, I think the outcome would have been very different.

Here's an article on the law in Ohio which was upheld by the USSC:

Under the Ohio Revised Code (Code), the burden of proving the elements of a criminal offense is upon the prosecution, but, for an affirmative defense, the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence is placed on the accused.


http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/480/228/

More in depth at the link and it's an interesting read in reference to what happened in Florida.
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In Ohio, Zimmerman would have been guilty! (Original Post) Just Saying Jul 2013 OP
Yep. Ohio is alone among the 50 states COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #1
That's what the Florida prosecutor mzmolly Jul 2013 #2
I can not believe that this is the exception rather than the rule. Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #3
Link is missing. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #4
Oops! Just Saying Jul 2013 #5
No problem. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #6
It seems it is the same in Delaware... Spazito Jul 2013 #7
Yay Delaware! Just Saying Jul 2013 #8
Yep, hopefully there will be more following the lead of Ohio and Delaware... Spazito Jul 2013 #9
Wow. My state did something right. Who would've thought. n/t Dawgs Jul 2013 #10
This is where we need to take the SYG challenge Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #11
Not with that prosecution team ksoze Jul 2013 #12

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
3. I can not believe that this is the exception rather than the rule.
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jul 2013

IMO; keep the burden of proof (the way it is) for proving the actual killing; and put the burden of proof for claiming self-defense on the one doing the killing. You could still implement a relativey low threshold for proving self-defense and thereby guarantee that this would not be done at the expense of the innocent legitimately defending themselves.

Spazito

(50,498 posts)
7. It seems it is the same in Delaware...
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:11 PM
Jul 2013

§ 304. Defendant's affirmative defenses; prove by preponderance of evidence.

(a) When a defense declared by this Criminal Code or by another statute to be an affirmative defense is raised at trial, the defendant has the burden of establishing it by a preponderance of the evidence.

(b) Unless the court determines that no reasonable juror could find an affirmative defense established by a preponderance of the evidence presented by the defendant, the defendant is entitled to a jury instruction that the jury must acquit the defendant if they find the affirmative defense established by a preponderance of the evidence.

(c) An affirmative defense is established by a preponderance of the evidence when the jury is persuaded that the evidence makes it more likely than not that each element of the affirmative defense existed at the required time.

http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c003/index.shtml

Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
8. Yay Delaware!
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

I read that there are 2 so I guess the other is Delaware.

I'm just happy for the rare opportunity to hold up my state as a good example for a change.

Spazito

(50,498 posts)
9. Yep, hopefully there will be more following the lead of Ohio and Delaware...
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jul 2013

after seeing the results in Florida where it is nearly impossible to disprove self-defense under those laws.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
11. This is where we need to take the SYG challenge
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:46 PM
Jul 2013

If you claim self-defense, then prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Requiring the state to prove a negative is bullshit.

ksoze

(2,068 posts)
12. Not with that prosecution team
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:53 PM
Jul 2013

With the prosecutor riding the dummy representing the defendant and no real counter to the fact that the Zimmerman did have some wounds, not so sure there was still not a self defense claim. The issue of how they encountered each other may not matter as much as the fact there is a defendant with injuries and evidence the plaintiff was on top of and hitting him. Was the amount of force used as a defense wrong - of course, that is another question never fleshed out at trial.

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