It won't be the first time our own government has killed American citizens on the government's say so.

He just worked for US for a while, before we fired him without so much as a thank you.

For some reason they kinda like to keep things like that quite.
The government's killings in this country involves everything from small planes to "heart attacks" to bad brakes and suicides by multiple bullets to the head. Usually hard to prove after the fact. Like JFK assassination, or Rick Rescorla on 9/11. Presidential kill lists are something new.


Kill List Exposed: Leaked Obama Memo Shows Assassination of U.S. Citizens "Has No Geographic Limit"
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/2/5/kill_list_exposed_leaked_obama_memo

Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo

US Citizens on Gov. Assassination List, Secret Bankers Meeting, Flight 253 Strangeness
Revealing News Articles February 8, 2010
http://www.wanttoknow.info/10/100208_secret_bankers_meeting_citizens_assassination_list

The due-process-free assassination of U.S. citizens is now reality
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/30/awlaki_6/

Al-Aulaqi v. Obama: Government Kill Lists Target U.S. Citizens Far From Any Armed Conflict
http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/kill-lists

Americans on Government Assassination List
http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/406189924/ciaassassins

Obama ‘kill list’ paper leaked, includes criteria for assassinating US citizens
http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/05/obama-kill-list-paper-leaked-includes-criteria-for-assassinating-us-citizens/

[hr]
Edward Snowden is not on US soil at the moment either. If he were, he would have been disappeared already, as Bradley Manning was for a while.

Prove that negative.

BTY, not all those links are conspiracy sites.

The NYT is a conspiracy site...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Gets worst, even the WAPO has gone rogue...better stop now, before I go into "the Cable" one of the top foreign policy blogs read by foreign policy types.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-12/opinions/35461683_1_drone-strikes-obama-administration-civilian-deaths

Oh look, foreign policy has gone off the deep end too

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/05/31/kill_the_kill_list

(Note to the OP, these are as establishment as you get)

Will see what the OP does...with these conspiracy sites.

Phew, it's good to know FP is a conspiracy site...as well as WAPO and NYT. What a relief!!!!

abundantly show otherwise.
The same people on a wide variety of subjects.

Is the NYT, WAPO and Foreign policy making unproven allegations too?

I guess they are conspiracy sites too...at this point...it's willful

It is actually a town cryer secret. You are, quite frankly, in denial

Both executed without a trial.

that not possible to accuse him of 'treason?'

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not a Snowden defender, but to say as this article does that he is at no risk for facing the death penalty is not the case.

When we legalize the murder of Americans without trial on the say of one person, as is now the case, well, that has forever taken from me the certainty that "we don't do these kind of things"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government#Capital_offenses


These are the offenses punishable by Life Imprisonment or Death under United States Code:[7]

Causing death by using a chemical weapon
Killing a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or United States Supreme Court
Kidnapping a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
Conspiracy to kill a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
Causing death by using an explosive
Causing death by using an illegal firearm
Genocide
First degree murder
Murder perpetrated by poison or lying in wait
Murder that is willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated
Murder in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate any arson, escape, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery
Murder perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children
Murder committed by a federal prisoner or an escaped federal prisoner sentenced to 15 years to life or a more severe penalty
Assassinating the President or a member of his staff
Kidnapping the President or a member of his staff resulting in death
Killing persons aiding Federal investigations or State correctional officers
Sexual abuse resulting in death
Sexual exploitation of children resulting in death
Torture resulting in death
War crimes resulting in death
Crimes Against Humanity
Large-scale drug trafficking
Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror, or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, even if such killing does not occur.
Espionage
Treason

violations of 18 U.S.C. 641 (theft of government property), 18 U.S.C. 793(d) (unauthorized communication of national defense information), and 18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) (willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person) ... http://jurist.org/forum/2013/07/tung-yin-edward-snowden.php

As has been pointed out many times, the maximum penalty for each of those charges is ten years and a possible fine

They know they'll never be able to extradite Snowden from an ECHR country on a death penalty charge. So, again, (possibly without the snark this time) what's stopping them from simply using the non-capital crimes to extradite him, then adding a capital crime once he returns to the US?

if he were to face the similar treatment given Manning. Extended solitary confinement is viewed as torture in ECHR nations (which Russia is one of).

They were willing to ground the plane of the PRESIDENT OF BOLIVIA just to find Snowden!

espionage statutes. Second, Snowden has good reason to fear being tortured while in captivity, given that Bush and Cheney are still walking around free men.

EPIC FAIL!

violations of 18 U.S.C. 641 (theft of government property), 18 U.S.C. 793(d) (unauthorized communication of national defense information), and 18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) (willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person) ... http://jurist.org/forum/2013/07/tung-yin-edward-snowden.php

As has been pointed out many times, the maximum penalty for each of those charges is ten years and a possible fine

that Snowden has a well-founded and quite reasonable fear of torture while in U.S. custody awaiting trial. Maybe you need time to absorb that.

If Bush and Cheney's freedom doesn't convince you, maybe the pre-trial torture of Bradley Manning, Jose Padilla and (arguably) John Walker Lindh will.

Or not.

it must be true.

Honestly, whatever somebody's alleged crimes are, I really don't blame countries for refusing to extradite suspects who could face the death penalty.

The Department of Justice will determine what law to charge them with. That law could well be treason. Knowing of the insecurity of the American Government. It is possible.

he has not been charged with any crime under US law; and as he owes no allegience to the US, it would be impossible for him to face treason charges here

(2) Mr Manning's trial is drawing to an end; the prosecution has made its case; the defense has made its case; the prosecution is currently offering its rebuttals; and the defense will next offer its responses. Anyone who has been paying attention thus knows with perfect certainty exactly what charges Mr Manning has faced: those charges do not include treason. Moreover, Mr Mannings trial is conducted in a military court martial: under the UCMJ, one of the charges could have posed the possibility of a death sentence, had it been originally preferred as a capital charge, but it was not so preferred and hence under the rules a death sentence is impossible

So (3): Mr Snowden is not changed with treason, and none of the charges against him carry a death penalty

but..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/may/11/us-opens-wikileaks-grand-jury-hearing

It's pretty thin

The suggestion that the US government is pursing charges against Assange is not. All reports are a Grand Jury was empaneled in Arlington , Va. Considering what happened to Morales' plane, why is Assange's fears seem so outrageous.

Don't tell me you didn't know that

Remember, this is not a military matter.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

Tried for espionage, executed June 19, 1953.

Also, for transmitting or attempting to transmit to a foreign government information relating to the national defense. Huh.

the USC section under which the Rosenbergs were charged

based on a capital crime.

And here we are, full circle back to my original point.

And when I was going through the criminal justice system, I had charges dropped and added three separate times.

irrelevant in the face of this fact

Also didn't realize we were at war with Yemen.

when situations understood as war. So in contexts where political consensus regards military action, rather than criminal prosecution, as the appropriate response to certain terrorist conspiracies, persons allegedly involved in those conspiracies will face military action

When we decide it's inconvenient? How very law abiding and civilized...

But it's ok when the Executive branch does it? I think Nixon said something to that effect...

a monarch as Louis XIV, only four years at a time, and is not subject to the processes of any court in the land except the court of impeachment"

Except that we don't impeach anymore, so bonus for the King, huh?

more capital in crime than that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/edward-snowden-charged_n_3480984.html

communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, said the criminal complaint, which was dated June 14. The latter two offenses .. carry penalties of fines and up to 10 years in prison"

Do consider taking a reading comprehension course

Here's a clearer explanation.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/u-s-government-charges-nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-with-espionage-20130621

specifies 18 USC 641, 18 USC 793(d), and 18 USC 798(a)(3) which you can access directly from my prior post #13 ... As has been pointed out many times, the maximum penalty for each of those charges is ten years and a possible fine ...

Assuming the worst possible punishment (death!) is just seeking excuses for those crimes committed.

I'd throw in another 10 years for extortion.

I'd throw in another 10 years for extortion.

Replies in posts have shown that is an option, depending on what the government decides to charge him with.

just give him his passport back, call off the dogs, and drop the charges against him.

It seems they proclaim their guilt with their actions. If there was nothing to worry about, why are they being so recalcitrant.

How can those of you who proclaim it so evil stand to be here?

Why not emigrate to a "non-surveillance state"?

Ahhh...nostalgia for the good old days of HUAC and McCarthy?

some of you are directing at this government in defense of Snowden's lawbreaking and in your near certainty of his 'fate' should he be apprehended, it's curious.

I guess the answer lies in the fact that people can say these things from the comfort of their computer keyboards without true fear of, say, being literally eviscerated the way Mexican bloggers were for speaking out against drug cartels, or being hauled off mysteriously in the night by this so-called tyrannical government.

Don't you?

I also consider the fact that our government fears us enough to spy on us a bad thing.

the run.

And, lookin' for a comfy port in which to hide for life.

Then he can continue to leak documents and make them look like fools.

That wouldn't be too bright.

He could technically get away with it if, as he has said, Greenwald has all the remaining documents. I don't know why anyone thinks this wouldn't happen.

What penalties would that person face if convicted? I wonder if this will really be considered fleeing persecution by the Russians and not fleeing prosecution.

They want to wait until they have him to add the charges, most likely. More charges are coming, I can say that with absolute certainty, though.

He is without a doubt facing life. Probably facing death when all said and done.

want any of that either. Anywhere but Russia or Latin America would mean extradition and indefinite SuperMax detention.