General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFelony-Murder Doctrine anyone?
Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 06:24 PM - Edit history (1)
On Edit: Thank you, Question answered
___________________________________________________________
There used to be an offense status known as the Felony Murder Doctrine. The felony-murder doctrine states that if someone dies as a result of a felony that you initiate, even though you may not have directly caused their death, you are responsible for putting in place events that did directly lead to that person's death.
For example, I walk into a bodega and pull out a gun and start robbing the clerk. A shopper in the back of the store who is legally carrying a concealed weapon pulls their weapon and shoots, killing the clerk or another shopper. I am responsible for the sequence of events that ultimately resulted in the dead clerk or dead shopper even though my hand never touched them, nor my bullets kill them. I could be found guilty of murder based on the felony murder doctrine and the shopper who had the gun, shot the gun, and killed the clerk would face no charges.
So....
Why wasn't Zimmy charged with a violation of the Felony-Murder Doctrine for getting out of his car, initiating physical contact, or even for stalking Trayvon which led to the events that directly resulted in his death?
In Florida aggravated stalking and aggravated abuse of a child are examples of crimes that can have felony murder charges applied if a person commits either of these offenses and a death occurs as a result. This is considered Murder. It is not considered Murder 2nd degree or Manslaughter, but Murder.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)by daring to question brave zimmerman, self-appointed neighborhood watchman
BainsBane
(53,074 posts)as the connecting crime that would enable felony murder. No one thought the charge was reasonable, so the judge didn't allow it. The prosecution needed evidence of another crime to establish felony murder. The prosecution withdrew the aggravated assault charge because they didn't think they have proved that charge.
Also felony murder is often tried as a capital offense.
onenote
(42,778 posts)Getting out of his car? Not a felony. Not even illegal.
Folllowing Trayvon? Not a felony. Not a misdemenor. Not illegal.
Initiating contact? If in fact there was evidence that Zimmerman had committed a felonious assault on Trayvon to initiate their altercation, then maybe. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall such evidence -- capable of being sustained under a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of proof -- being introduced.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Ag child abuse for striking a 17 year old child, according to Rachel's description of events when he knocked the phone out of his hands.
They didn't work hard enough to prove either of these, but it should have been something they tried to establish.
Or is it perfectly legal for a Not-A-Cop to patrol a neighborhood, follow a child, approach, and lay hands on him? Trayvon had his hands full and was on the phone. He didn't initiate shit.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and ignoring the dispatcher is not against the law.
onenote
(42,778 posts)Its not illegal to get out of one's car, even if a dispatcher suggests you don't need to.
It's not illegal for someone to follow someone. It only becomes "stalking" if its done "repeatedly" which has been interpreted by Florida and other jurisdictions that follow the uniform stalking law, as requiring the perpetrator to have followed someone on more than one occasion (not one occasion with an interruption). And stalking is only a felony in Florida (rather than a misdemenor) if it happens repeatedly and is accompanied by a "credible threat" that the person engaging in stalking will harm the individual being stalked (or their family). In short, stalking law is designed to address a particular type of behavior, not what occurred when Zimmerman followed Trayvon.
For Zimmerman to have committed "aggravated child abuse" under Florida law he would have had to have committed an "aggravated battery" on Trayvon. To establish that Zimmerman committed an aggravated battery it would be necessary to show that Zimmerman intentionally or knowingly caused great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to Trayvon. Knocking a cell phone out of his hand doesn't meet that standard.
IMO, the jury should have convicted Zimmerman of manslaughter.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)is not considered a crime. As for who initiated the physical confrontation, the prosecution failed to prove that it was Zimmerman. I don't even remember the prosecution really trying to prove Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation.
Here is the Florida law on stalking:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.048.html
hack89
(39,171 posts)following someone and even accosting them is not illegal.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Was the state at least able to prove that Trayvon was in fact dead? From what I saw and read they did a horrible job and botched a gimmie.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Lest I or anyone like me befall the same fate as Martin...
hack89
(39,171 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)#1 dial 911. Keep them on the line, don't hang up no matter what. Let your pursuer know you have the police on the line.
#2 Go where there are people. The more the better. Even if they are the kind that don't want to get involved, they are a witness and predators hate a witness do many will back off
#3 if close enough get into your car or home, that gives a layer of protection between you and gives you greater legal protection in many states should #4 become necessary.
#4 Be prepared to defend yourself. Know the laws of your state on what is and is not allowed, have an effective self defense tool available, based on your personal choice an the laws of your state.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)believe me; any attempt to defend myself in this state gets me shot instantly...
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)There was no felony committed involved with the crime- hence the law is not applicable.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Felony murder requires a felony.
No matter what one may wish to believe, it is not a felony to get out of one's car.
There was no "stalking" as a matter of law.
"Initiating physical contact" is not a felony, nor was it proven in the case.
And if you think it was established beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ assaulted TM then you were watching some other trial. Based on the evidence, the jury implicitly found the opposite.
As to child abuse, see above re: assault.
The standard of proof for an aggravating felony would be the same as the standard of proof for the felony itself.