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pa28

(6,145 posts)
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:31 PM Jul 2013

Detroit’s Creditors Eye Its Art Collection

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/arts/design/detroits-creditors-eye-its-art-collection.html

Despite the Michigan AG barring the liquidation of Detroit's artwork creditors will push the issue in front of a federal judge anyway. The emergency manager decided to "help" by siding with the creditors.

Make no mistake. The emergency manager is there to strip Detroit down to the tacks and place the public commons into private hands.

“We haven’t proposed selling any asset,” said Bill Nowling, a spokesman for Kevyn D. Orr, the state-appointed emergency manager appointed to deal with Detroit’s debts, which could amount to more than $18 billion. “But we haven’t taken any asset off the table. We can’t. We cannot negotiate in good faith with our creditors by taking assets off the table. And all of our creditors have asked about the worth of the D.I.A. And we’ve told them that they’re welcome to find out.”

......

Samuel Sachs II, who was the director of the museum from 1985 to 1997, said on Friday, “If they do attack this, it will be the end of one of the most venerable cultural institutions in the country, not just in Detroit.”

He added: “If you could sell off Detroit’s hospitals and its universities, would you do that, too? If you do things like this, you’re basically spelling the end of the city as an ongoing entity.”


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Detroit’s Creditors Eye Its Art Collection (Original Post) pa28 Jul 2013 OP
Fuckin' vampires! TDale313 Jul 2013 #1
The Nazis made millions off of looted artworks..... Wounded Bear Jul 2013 #2
Simple question: where do they get money from? Dreamer Tatum Jul 2013 #3
Wall Street got bailed out, why not the people of Detroit? leftstreet Jul 2013 #6
The federal govt, then. Fair enough. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2013 #12
IIRC, the Feds bailed out NYC a few years back.... Wounded Bear Jul 2013 #17
Tax the rich ... oldhippie Jul 2013 #7
I'd rather it burn than end up in some rich fuck's estate...nt Earth_First Jul 2013 #4
Remember, the goal is to dismantle every public good ... ananda Jul 2013 #5
+1 gollygee Jul 2013 #8
+1 TDale313 Jul 2013 #9
Kevyn Orr could have reiterated the AG's position against a sale. He did not. pa28 Jul 2013 #14
Kevyn Orr: Howdy Doody Not For Sale In Detroit’s Bankruptcy Chiyo-chichi Jul 2013 #10
Blood-sucking leeches. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #11
makes me think mstinamotorcity2 Jul 2013 #13
Tax the churches, including their real estate holdings theHandpuppet Jul 2013 #15
If they try Union Scribe Jul 2013 #16
Why would Detroit keep an art collection if it cannot afford to pay pensions to retirees? (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #18
I think pensions and unions should be first in line but unfortunately the opposite is true. pa28 Jul 2013 #20
The federal government needs to step in and move the art to the Smithsonian. roamer65 Jul 2013 #19
Wholeheartedly agree. pa28 Jul 2013 #21
I think that there would be a HUGE backlash against this from the tri-county area. demmiblue Jul 2013 #22
Right, I read about that as I was digging into the issue. pa28 Jul 2013 #23
I am not going to pretend to be knowledgable on this issue, but demmiblue Jul 2013 #24

Wounded Bear

(58,706 posts)
2. The Nazis made millions off of looted artworks.....
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:35 PM
Jul 2013

Sorry to go all Godwin's Law and all, but hey, it fits this situation to a tee.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
3. Simple question: where do they get money from?
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:37 PM
Jul 2013

$18 billion right this moment. Where does $18B come from? And if you get that, how do you keep it coming?

Simple question.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
7. Tax the rich ...
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:41 PM
Jul 2013

.... is mostly what you will hear, if anything.

People have been looking for another solution for decades. Haven't found one yet.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
14. Kevyn Orr could have reiterated the AG's position against a sale. He did not.
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:51 PM
Jul 2013

Instead he put it all back on the table clearly showing he's with "the program". I'm guessing Belle Isle is next.

mstinamotorcity2

(1,451 posts)
13. makes me think
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:48 PM
Jul 2013

he knew the bankruptcy was going to get thrown out. I personally would rather the Federal Government do it if it has to be done. If I am not mistaken the pensions will get guaranteed up to a percentage under the Government pension rules. Which in my opinion is better than nothing. They will also probably place the Arts under some Historical preservation act. Don't trust Snyder or ORR.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
15. Tax the churches, including their real estate holdings
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:55 PM
Jul 2013

That alone should put a sizeable dent in the deficit.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
20. I think pensions and unions should be first in line but unfortunately the opposite is true.
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 09:56 PM
Jul 2013

Orr offered these unsecured creditors a little over twenty cents on the dollar in negotiations while offering Bank of America seventy-five cents.

If the collection is liquidated bondholders are first in line. I would question Orr's motives and I'm not just prepared to believe his assertion that the city cannot afford to pay it's pension obligations.

roamer65

(36,747 posts)
19. The federal government needs to step in and move the art to the Smithsonian.
Fri Jul 19, 2013, 09:31 PM
Jul 2013

If Detroit cannot keep it, it needs to become the property of the American people.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
21. Wholeheartedly agree.
Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:22 AM
Jul 2013

If the collection were to be liquidated I'd rather see it stay in the public commons.

Right now it looks like the difference between city assets and obligations is in the neighborhood of 5-10 billion. The fed currently pumps that much every single week into MBS purchases with questionable collateral to support financial institutions.

If the artwork were about to be lost to private purchasers maybe it could be included as part of a federal bailout package and returned to the commons.

demmiblue

(36,885 posts)
22. I think that there would be a HUGE backlash against this from the tri-county area.
Sat Jul 20, 2013, 01:02 AM
Jul 2013

Shoot, this area recently passed a millage that entitled people of all three counties to access the museum free of charge. That is saying something given the income disparity, political affiliation and the historical divide that has existed in this area. The fact that the importance of the DIA is so ingrained in such a diverse population gives me hope.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
23. Right, I read about that as I was digging into the issue.
Sat Jul 20, 2013, 01:43 AM
Jul 2013

The levy you passed is not a small amount, something like 25 million a year in support of the museum even in the face of economic hardship. The DIA is clearly valued by the community.

Your millage brings up another issue that is almost as disturbing as breaking up the collection piecemeal at an auction. If a foundation were to come in and offer a flat price for the whole collection in exchange for keeping it in place I believe it would be hailed as kind of a happy ending bedtime story. All good right?

The art would stay where it is but you would lose ownership. Secondly, your substantial tax levy might now be directed into the hands of the purchaser. The future returns from that tax could be considered an asset.

demmiblue

(36,885 posts)
24. I am not going to pretend to be knowledgable on this issue, but
Sat Jul 20, 2013, 02:26 AM
Jul 2013

your scenario is kind of, well, ridiculous. A flat price for the entire collection?! I am guessing that that would be totally impossible given the legal restraints that were placed on the sale/transfer of some of the donated works (I can't be specific, but I know that this was one of the issues discussed). Also, the patrons of the DIA would raise a shit-storm. The mere fact that the millage passed in this economic climate is a testament to their ability to reach out to the public.


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