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FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:38 AM Jul 2013

If "I" was a NSA Data Mining Contractor ....

1.) I would be collecting Data and Eavesdropping on every phone call of Wall St. Firms specializing in "Mergers and Acquisitions" making a Killing in the Stock Market.

2.) I would collect Data on celebrities cheating on their spouses and sell it to Enquirer and Hustler Magazine

3.) I would definitely "Fix" the next election

I would So Not do an Edward Snowden and feel some form of "Duty or Patriotism" but rather between me and my Swiss Bank Account buy an Island some where and retire early with my posse of exotic dancers. Hell I'd even commission J-Zee to write a rap song a video depicting me and my posse of exotic dancers living the "Good Life" Hot tubing together on my private island

Suckers ....

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randome

(34,845 posts)
1. NSA requires 4 levels of approval before data can be viewed.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:42 AM
Jul 2013

Even Carl Bernstein says that sounds like a robust system to prevent abuse.

So, no, you would not be able to carry on your personal financial jihad.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
2. "I'm so sure your right"
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jul 2013
NOT

That's exactly why Snowden got all those documents and information

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
5. He downloaded Powerpoint presentations from a Sharepoint site
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jul 2013

He did not actually produce any documents from him being able to actually login to any systems - so he never requested the level of access that he would have needed

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
7. He produced not one iota of personal data. All internal NSA documents.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:02 PM
Jul 2013

Seems like the system is pretty well protected to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
11. Apparently private contractors are NOT trusted with personal data.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:05 PM
Jul 2013

As evidenced by Snowden's failure to obtain any.

Clearly the NSA had a security hole in the area of their internal documents but they have since taken measures so that future Snowdens will find themselves with fewer options.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
13. The FBI could be doing that, too. The CIA. The Coast Guard. Your local police dept.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:10 PM
Jul 2013

Where is the evidence they are doing so? Funny that neither Greenwald nor Our Beloved (Snowden) could provide evidence of any illegality.

As for other countries, we do not hand over data on foreigners that the NSA has collected without legal requests to do so. It's the same as any law enforcement cooperation between countries. There needs to be documentation and it needs to meet our standards for being a legal request.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
14. So far no one has provided any evidence of illegality to you. Really?
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:58 PM
Jul 2013

Never mind how much it clashes with the 4th Amendment. How can something be legal when it is clearly unconstitutional?
Just because some call them "warrants" does not automatically make them legal either.

You don't you seem to have a problem with the word "secret" or its normal definition, as applied to a free country? This is supposed to be a representative democracy, after all. How are we represented in the secret courts, with secret members and secret warrants, when we are denied knowledge of what they are doing? Where is our say in all this? Has anyone seen a copy of one of these secret warrants, so we know what it consists of?
Or does Nation Security trump all, and we are not allowed to know what our government is doing in our name against us?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
3. That is absolutely not true during the first 72 hours NSA has to gather evidence to seek a warrant.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:51 AM
Jul 2013

Please read this post analyzing the Snowden documents, and come back for a discussion of the facts. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=143890 Here's some of it:

There's a little-known loophole provided by the PATRIOT Act and expanded by the 2008 FISA Amendment (the same one that Senator Obama voted for) that allows NSA three days to seek a warrant and seven under "exigent circumstances" - the government has interpreted this to mean that during that time, analysts are free to look at whatever they want in real-time (this program) and across US government and foreign databases. See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=143890

Indeed, it is virtually certain that large amounts of US person data are available without warrants to NSA personnel, at least in the files of other agencies that analysts and contractors may access in the process of profiling suspected terrorists and other NSA targets. Under the law as it was changed by the PATRIOT Act, analysts have 72 hours to examine US person content before they have to seek a warrant. See FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1801(h)(4): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1801

no contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless the Attorney General determines that the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person.


Furthermore, NSA and its contractors have a full week to seek a FISA warrant under "exigent circumstances". 50 U.S.C. § 1805(e)(3): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805

(3) In the absence of a judicial order approving such electronic surveillance, the surveillance shall terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the application for the order is denied, or after the expiration of 7 days from the time of authorization by the Attorney General, whichever is earliest.

PRISM is a “database of databases.” Analysts have access to many databases, both domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, and those contain information from all sources – and they generally are not minimized to segregate US person information. According to the sequence of steps shown in SLIDE 2, US person voice content does get separated out and sent to NUCLEON, and the metadata is deposited in MARINA, but only after a US person has gone through the profiling process. This suggests that US person content is utilized in some way at the initial profiling stage of PRISM, which appears to skirt the intent of FISA, if as we see below, loopholes allow it's use in practice.

Under the law, US person telco content is supposed to be "minimized" under Sec. 215 of the PATRIOT Act, and Sec. 216 is supposed to do the same for US person Internet records. Meanwhile Sec. 702 of the 2008 FAA (FISA Amendent Act) legalized the sort of targeted NSA activities that PRISM carries out, but that targeting is supposed to be restricted to foreign persons abroad. Nonetheless, because of loopholes in the law -- such as the allowance under Sec. 1801(h)(4) and 1805(e)(3) for up to seven days of unfettered viewing of US person data that has been worked into PRISM's Tasking process (profiling) -- it does not look like the FISA wall that is supposed to separate these two NSA programs provides any real separation.

• NOTE B, SLIDE 3: NSA intercepts email, on-line chats in real-time, CONTENT TYPES C,D

This appears to answer some of the issue of whether analysts can access communications in real-time, or whether they have to wait for a warrant. That question was raised by this report in CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA's formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically, it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls.

James Owens, a spokesman for Nadler, provided a statement on Sunday morning, a day after this article was published, saying: "I am pleased that the administration has reiterated that, as I have always believed, the NSA cannot listen to the content of Americans' phone calls without a specific warrant." Owens said he couldn't comment on what assurances from the Obama administration Nadler was referring to, and said Nadler was unavailable for an interview. (CNET had contacted Nadler for comment on Friday.)

Because the same legal standards that apply to phone calls also apply to e-mail messages, text messages, and instant messages, being able to listen to phone calls would mean the NSA analysts could also access the contents of Internet communications without going before a court and seeking approval.


Bear in mind two things: the system seems to handle phone, internet, and email messages differently, and under FISA as revised by the PATRIOT ACT, NSA analysts and contractors have 72 hours to do what they want with all data before seeking a warrant. A warrant is only required if the decision is made to target the individual.
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
4. An analyst, supposedly, still needs approval to view the data.
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jul 2013

None of what you posted precludes that. Granted, we don't know how internal matters work in the NSA but to suggest that anyone who wants to look up data on a jilted lover is able to do so flies in the face of reality.

Snowden's lack of evidence of personal data is, in itself, evidence that the system is pretty well protected from lone wolves like himself.

All Snowden was able to steal were internal NSA documents, not anyone's personal data.

Do you really think that 72 hour period is not signed off by anyone else?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
6. I could "So Totally collect Porn Stars Personal Cell Phone Numbers"
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jul 2013

"Man O Man" I bet that list would go for a pretty penny on Ebay

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
8. So why isn't it listed on EBay, then?
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:03 PM
Jul 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

flamingdem

(39,332 posts)
15. Exactly, if it was so easy we'd see incidents of leaked info for cash
Sun Jul 28, 2013, 01:42 PM
Jul 2013

and I don't think there has been one case attributed to NSA data leaks about a celebrity, for example.

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