it happens way too much and it affects the children greatly.

On the fact that mass deportations, in practice, serve no useful purpose except to mollify those upset about seeing too many brown folks around?

The child can't even petition for the parent until (s)he reaches 21. In the meantime, papa or mama no con papeles gets arrested and deported, if located by ICE.

If you're a xenophobic bastard, you might want the kids stripped of their US Citizenship and thrown out, too. If you're a "compassionate conservative", you might just stop at throwing the kids of undocumented parents out of public school.

Like most things in American politics.

We have no problem putting US citizen parents in jail (and the kids in foster care) for breaking the law.

If mom and dad don't want to take the kids with them back to their country of origin, the US citizen kids should be entitled to foster care in their community.

Which undocumented immigration is, basically. It's a misdemeanor offense that amounts to "being where you shouldn't be." It's not the earth-shattering high offense that the right wants you to think it is.

Littering is more criminal.

"Go home" isn't a punishment, it's a prerogative of the host.

Any immigration law which doesn't send a violator back home really isn't a law.

If they don't want to take their kids with them (an act I find pretty dubious) then the kids are citizens and entitled to foster care.

Is that the latest sanctimonious self-deception?

Being forced to do something against your will is not a punishment? WHAT IS IT, THEN? A reward?

I'm being kicked out because it's your living room and subject to your rules.

And I've done it.

"Subject to your rules" is a gutless attempt to duck responsibility.

I can never figure out why everybody gets so excited about 'illegal aliens'. And my husband works in construction, where this is a hot button topic. Thing is, do you know how hard it is to get a crew of AMERICANS to come out and replace your roof? Or to hang a 300 board house in a day? It is next to impossible, even now when you would think there would be a lot of Americans greedy for work.

If that there are lot of people wanting to come here and waiting to go through the proper process.

Either we need to enforce the process or completely get rid of it.

Personally, I am for opening up immigration significantly but still deporting those who are here illegally.

And yes, I had a crew of Americans do my roof. It took a week and didn't come close to passing inspection. It had to be ripped off and redone. The second crew was Hispanic. Those guys worked their butts off and did an amazing job. They were shocked when I tipped them in cash (mainly because I was so grateful for the job they did). Immigrants are what made this country great and continue to do so.

First, our trade policies. Most blatantly is the fact that it's cheaper to buy American corn in Mexico, than it is to buy Mexican corn, because of US subsidies. We have, in effect, killed all local agriculture in Latin America and the Caribbean; Jamaica used to have a thriving dairy industry... and then we literally destroyed it. Same with rice in Haiti; our subsidizations and trade "agreements" obliterated the main crops in these countries and replaced them with American=produced stuff.

We have, in effect, created millions of destitute homeless people outside our borders, and we have done so intentionally, to benefit our agricorps.

And then these people, with nowhere else to turn, come north to our borders, only to find that in order to get into the "land of the free," you have to have some wealth to spare. It all comes out to a total of $5,000 or so, just to get the basic paperwork filed; you can still be deported no problem if you make even a small misstep.

So how about that? We create widespread destitution, and then close our border to the destitute.

Don't give me this sob story bullshit about the people who filed all their papers legally. I mean hey, good for them, I'm happy they could and did do that, thumbs up. But for every one of them there are fifty more people who cannot do this. It's not that they will not - there's that right-wing mythmaking again - it's that they flat cannot accomplish it. A lack of funds, some criminal record, lack of "marketable skill," etc.

Maybe ever.

If the jobs paid more, you'd find more citizens doing them. In areas where there are few undocumented immigrants houses still get built and roofs still get replaced.

before they haul you away like cattle.

When parents are deported they can bring any U.S. born children with them. No one is 'separated' from their children.

And the question is whether they should be deported in the first place.

Put them in the streets? Put them in the already overburdened foster child program? Any other alternative than putting with their parents would not be a good options. They should be with their family. What type of parents would not want their children? The only exceptions I can see is if they have relatives in the U.S. willing to take them in.

They're citizens and entitled to it.

As minor children, they are entitled to return with the parents to the parents country of origin. The only reason the family would be split is because the parents chose not to take the kids with them.

If I were illegally in Mexico and deported, I would elect to bring my Mexican-born children back home with me. If I chose not to, those children would be eligible for whatever supports are available to them as mexican citizens.

is separating thousands of families where the parents are not giving the choice to be deported with their kids. They are simply snatched and deported. And the administration is on track to separate many more.

So this idea you have that those parents have any say in the matter is mistaken.

If deported parents want their children returned to them in their country of origin (absent major criminal conduct by the parents) it should happen immediately.

If they want them raised in foster care as US citizens, I'm okay with that too.

It's separating families that may never be reunited again.

And of course, the wishes of these deported parents are of no account to our government whose own criminal conduct in separating them will never be addressed.

Official policy is to let the parents take the children when they are deported. Do mistakes get made in a one size fits all immigration law? Of course just like any other program.

and the government doesn't intervene to force them back under the custody of their biological parents, then is the government guilty of separating the biological parents from their children?

They should all go back to their homeland together. But what some people don't understand is that many times I think the parents want their kids to stay here, regardless. There was a woman in Chicago who holed up in a church for a year to avoid deportation (as well as call attention to her plight). When the law finally caught up with her, she made arrangements with friends to take her 7-year-old son. She could have brought him with her, but wanted him in America. Well, after a short time her son went down to Mexico because he didn't want to be separated from her. That is what really turned me off. I felt that she used her son as her tool of manipulation for sympathy. She was also asked about the boy's father but would not reveal his identity. My suspicion is that her baby daddy was a citizen, hence would be able to take his son and so her ploy for sympathy wouldn't work...She did not help the cause one iota and actually made things worse. If you want to learn more about her case, Google Elvira Arellano.

Why should they all be sent back to their 'homeland'?

Better yet, why don't we pass comprehensive immigration reform? Provide legal status, maybe not citizenship, to those who have already made lives here and create a work permit program for seasonal laborers. Now, we have a situation where, because of increased enforcement, people who would have gone back home for the season just stay here because coming back is too risky and difficult.

And people are not "pouring in" anymore. Immigration is responsive to economic conditions. Check with ICE and and BPS and they will tell you that the number of people they're grabbing is way down.

Of course, now we criminalize them. Before about 2006, we often just sent them home. But now, we have a whole system of privatized immigrant detention centers and assembly-line justice where these wannabe laborers are turned into felons.

I suggest you check out Tom Barry's "Border Wars" for a progressive perspective.

I believe in Socialism. Does Obama? What about Clinton and NAFTA? Actually, all the so-called liberals who champion the tsunami of people coming in are right on time with Big Business, who LOVES us all competing against one another. So maybe I should accuse YOU of being a teabagger?

there are undocumented people from Eastern Europe and Asia. And the burden to schools is huge. The public schools are required to accept all the children regardless, which disenfranchises the other students.

Really? "Disenfranchises"? How many disenfranchised kids have you run across that would name illegal aliens as the reason for their discontent?

You do get that if illegal immigrants are employed, they are paying taxes which pay for their kids to go to school just like anybody else's? Also, don't say that stuff about illegals using Social Security and not paying in, blah blah blah. It has been proven that, typically, illegals pay more INTO the system than they take OUT of it.

in a very short period of time. Because it was a suburb (with more resources), they built three new schools in less than a decade. But in the city they just cram in more kids in one classroom. I wish I could link the article about this very issue. There was tension between the legal Hispanics and the undocumented ones because the legal citizens saw their neighborhoods and schools become overcrowded. Do you think they hire more teachers after an influx? HA! It just worsens the school experience for the kids. The trash overflows in the alley because the urban planners only accounted for a certain population.

That's Ok, I think you have answered any questions I might have had about your position.

Unless you personally know this woman, how do you know what she was thinking?

Their parents should be made legal and that's that.

Of course, I think worrying about illegal immigration is pointless.

were brown people. I knew an English couple who sneaked into the USA via Canada and had a couple of American born children while they were here. Eventually they were caught by the "migra", but they were given Green Cards because the judge ruled that the American born children needed their parents to raise them and provide for them. A background check showed that other than their illegal status, they were law-abiding and hard working. I believe this was fairly common practice back then in the sixties. It's when the children were born to immigrants from south of the border that the tables turned.

the system is way lax. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the massive issue with it that we do. And I have been hearing about undocumented people coming from South America, too! That's quite a distance. It makes me wonder what the hell is going on and who is sponsoring this and creating these networks where people are willing to sacrifice everything to get here...

And who is 'we'??

Maybe you live in a very White area and can idealize this issue. It is very serious and trust me, it's the reason why some of these states finally got Draconian. My concern is LEGAL immigrants being given visas! I have been hearing an alarming number of British and Aussie accents in the last five years. Why would they be lured to come here during a depression?! Because it's being done by DESIGN!

I used to question the immigrants about it in the restaurants I worked. At that time it wasn't illegal for the business to hire illegals, but one Mexican kid of sixteen said it all. He had to quit school in the fifth grade to help support his family. He worked in a brick factory for the equivalent of 75 cents a day. Here he was making minimum wage, which at that time was $3.35 an hour and was able to send more home every month than he earned in a month in Mexico.

I know an Israeli who was deported some 20 years ago after his green card marriage fell apart. Still see his "wife" occasionally.

find immigration records that admit they deport people according to the color of their skin, yet my observation, when living in a city that had immigrants from every part of the world, and we rubbed elbows with them everyday, whether in the workplace, socially or in the neighborhood, the white illegals were never in danger of being deported unless they got into trouble with the law. The Central Americans, however, lived in fear daily of being deported. I know because I worked in restaurants a lot, which hired these people. I was actually hired because I'm bilingual English/Spanish and was able to be a liaison, communicating between management and those employees. So I got to know their stories pretty well.

The only time I ever saw white, European immigrants deported was a group of Australians, who got in a bar fight, and the manager called the immigration. They were all back within a month. Yes, it's all anecdotal, but since no one likes to document these observations they will have to remain so.

I lived in NYC for many years and can't remember anyone besides the Israeli ever getting deported.

I now live rurally and the authorities are always harassing the farmers about their seasonal labor, yet the local Irish tavern in town that is patronized by many European illegals never gets raided.

to make these workers legal and protected from exploitation under the law. Before it became illegal to hire immigrants, all of them were hired at at least minimum wage. They had taxes and FICA taken out of their checks and they were protected under labor laws. I know because I was the person who did the payroll and who listened to their stories if their supervisors weren't treating them well. The labor board had no interest in their immigration status. Neither did the cops. Both agencies felt it was not their job. We need to go back to something like that but giving them a work permit or guest worker status, something like that. The more we drive them underground the easier it is for unscrupulous employers to exploit them, under pay them and by under paying them drive legitimate workers out of the job market. It's what's happening today.

However, I don't know too many Americans who want to pick onions in a field all day so those workers are needed by the farmers to bring in their harvests. There just aren't enough domestic workers to do it. Also, in restaurants, the Americans take the jobs that earn tips. They don't want to slave away in the kitchen peeling potatoes and washing dishes for minimum wage, so the owners of those establishments need those workers as well and they hire illegals to do the jobs. So I believe those workers should be able to do it legally.

Bringing workers from India or anywhere to work more cheaply than Americans is wrong and there should be a law about it. Actually at one time there was. In order to bring in a foreign worker, you had to prove that you couldn't find anyone else to do the job. An example would be the German rocket engineers and scientists brought here after WWII. They knew the stuff our engineers and scientists didn't. We once had a law like that. I wonder what happened after Raygun became Prez?

work in the fields where they know how to work in those conditions?

straw man to me.

"However, I don't know too many Americans who want to pick onions in a field all day so those workers are needed by the farmers to bring in their harvests"

So brown people belong in the fields because that is a skill set that only they possess?

I said Americans, who if you look around can be any color. Most "Americans" are unwilling to do this kind of work. However, according to you, maybe we should bring our farm labor over from the Ukraine because they are white enough for you and we shouldn't demean others because they aren't white? Honestly, do you know what you are saying?

I get really tired of people up in arms over H1B visas because they take white-collar jobs and depress wages, but when you point out that illegal immigration tends to take blue collar jobs and decrease wages you get answers such as: they are just looking for a better life, those people should be retrained, should have thought about that before they went into that career, should have been born to a wealthier family, and the list goes on and on.

Those dish washers, onion pickers and other minimum wage jobs that most Americans will only do as a stepping stone to something else, need the protection of the law, so that they don't decrease wages and put other blue collar workers out of a job. I will repeat it again the further you drive these people underground, the more unscrupulous employers will exploit them and depress the job market all the way around.

And without that you will always have illegal immigration.

need them to work for them is hardly open borders. When I was in high school in So. Calif. the summer job my friends and I had were picking fruit. We worked alongside the braceros then and were paid by the boxes we picked. The braceros were Mexicans who came in during the harvest seasons legally to pick the crops. There weren't enough high school students to meet the need, so the Mexican nationals filled that need. Then a few years later, the bracero law was rescinded. Yes, there were problems; low wages and families sleeping in the fields that they worked in, without proper sanitary facilities, but the workers didn't have to fear being herded into detention centers, humiliated and then deported. The fact is that with some fixing, the law allowing them to come and work legally here was a solution. No it wasn't open borders, because the workers were accounted for because of their paychecks. So we need to revisit that.

You keep changing the apples into oranges. I'm talking about unskilled labor (which is actually pretty skilled if you ever have to do it. You just don't need an education to get the job.) You are talking about techs who have an education and skills comparable to our domestic white collar educated labor force, who are willing to work for less money.

never have to suffer such an indignation. Do you think white-collar workers are more important than blue-collar workers?

and your words have proved it. You just want a pissing match. I will answer your question though. All workers are important in their field or there wouldn't be jobs, would there be? As far as the princes of the corporate world, I don't consider them part of the labor force but parasites that profit from it. Just to really firm where you stand, answer me this question. What do you think of all the free labor women do in the home? Should they be paid? Or is what they do not important like the so-called "bread winner".

My wife is about to start being a stay-at-home mom so it's very much on my mind. She's quitting her state gov't job and will just focusing on her private practice and holding sessions in the evening. Maybe 3 times a week. She controls all the finances so I'm the one in danger of not being paid, lol.

We made the decision because we felt it would be better for our children and it's something she really enjoys.

I'm just trying to point out that there it little difference between H1B visa holders and illegal immigrants. Both are just a source of cheap labor.

Basically, if you enter the U.S. and pass through immigration inspection at the border, airport, crossing, etc., immigration law treats you much more kindly than if you sneak through without inspection.

Hence, it is possible for the parents in Cleita's example to have gotten their permanent residence, while it would be next to impossible (barring lots of money, attorneys and approved waivers of inadmissibility) for someone who entered without inspection.

a visitor's visa. Many of them were savvy enough to do this. Usually, they would come in once with the Coyotes and then they got smart and figured out how to do it. This is how many of the European illegals come in on a visitor's visa and then just stay. Yet, the Mexicans by and large were hunted down in raids when the immigration was cracking down, periodically, while the European illegals were left alone.

about this. Let's face it anyone of color is the problem and especially south of the border. It is so very sad. They are doing jobs that many don't want to do. I live in a rural area in Tn. We have alot of Mexicans working in the fields around where I live. I will tell you they work very very hard. They are good people. All they want is the same thing we want. They want to send their children to school and get an education. Some of their children are born here and have never been to Mexico. America is their country. Just ask some of these states around the south how hard it has been to find field workers to pick our veggies and fruit. They sure took a hit. There should be some way to help these people that are here now.

I know there is some problems with illegal Irish immigrants taking blue collar jobs in NY for cash under the table.

If Americans just started pouring into Canada, would they be justified in deporting us?

go and come freely across the borders. That would solve alot of problems.

Similar to some of the Eastern European bloc countries that are trying to join the EU.

could work.

Repeating that tired phrase is NOT true and a complete slap in the face! First of all, where I live there are huge numbers of illegal Poles, Russians, and other E. Europeans and I feel the very same way about them. They have taken over the roofing and construction industries. Do you honestly believe that no Americans do these jobs? They just belong to unions and this is one way to get around it! And they don't make peanuts, either, but they can still undercut a union worker.

My partner works with his hands and has seen his business cut like crazy because of the competition. There are Black women picketing downtown because the hotel industry kicked them to the curb and hired undocumented Hispanic women.

Stop making these FALSE STATEMENTS!

but you don't have to use it on every single one of your posts. Animated smilies are kind of distracting.

And my husband works in construction in the southeast. We live in a community that has seen a good bit of immigration. I don't see the downside. My husband has had jobs where the homeowner specifically requested American workers and we couldn't FIND any to do the work. You try to find a crew of American hangers to hang a 300 board house in a day, do a good job, arrive early and work late and do it for $5 a board...which is what the going rate for hanging sheetrock is in our area. Cause if you can do that, I would really REALLY like their number for the odd job that doesn't want us to use Hispanics.

Honey, in the summer of '08 we were spraying the ceilings on ten house A DAY, and doing the drywall contract on another 5-6 per month. We ran three crews and were making bank. These days my husband works by himself out of a mini-van and does drywall repairs and small remodels. Your partner's work isn't being hurt by immigrants, it is being hurt by the economy and a housing market that is glutted with empty houses. We scratch and scramble and fight for every job. Half the time that my husband goes to give an estimate, he winds up getting told that their cousin/brother in law/uncle is going to do the work for them. We are charging $25 a board now, with us supplying materials on new construction. We have to sub out the hanging. Four years ago we were charging $40 and had to turn down work. These are just tough times.

Which is considered "good money" for those who don't have a post secondary education. The disadvantage is that it is highly physical, usually doesn't offer benefits, and mostly seasonal here in Wisconsin. There are still many Americans, mostly young men who are willing to do it.
Most of these businesses include a labor hour charge as part of their bill which is significantly more than they are paying their people.

also have a mother (god rest her soul) who came here to america from another country legally. Also grandparents came here legally and all became US citizens the legal way. If you read my comment you will see I was talking about hispanics in our area. I have nothing against anyone coming here. All I am stating is what I see. I don't live in big cities so I don't know what goes on in those areas. But you must admit when you see a Russian, or a Pole or someone from a East european country they are not going to get stopped as fast as a hispanic. That is a fact. I do think if all these people are here then let them come out in the open and find a way for them to stay in the country if they have children. ALL foreigners (not matter what country) come here and they know the deal if they get caught. But I do feel people south of the border are getting a raw deal. They are our neighbors and they work hard and pay taxes like the rest and we should find a legal way if their children are born here to help them stay. But you must admit everyone knows the deal. I am don't hate anyone. I am talking strictly farm work. That is what I see in rural Tn area I live in. They are good hard working people.

Oh by the way don't worry before long the republicans will do away with the child labor laws and we won't have to worry about losing jobs to foreigners, no we will have to worry about losing jobs to our kids.

The statement doesn't seem to be false at all in your case.

I noticed that. I have already gotten one comment deleted today, so I went back and edited my response. But...yeah...

I am not sure that is always the right answer. I get that she was racist and, seriously, ignorant. But if you read her post about her partner, I think a lot of it stems from the financial pressure they are under. It is natural to want to blame somebody. In this case, they are blaming immigrants for her partner's lack of work. I happen to know from painful personal experience that it is mostly just this shitty economy and the housing bust. And that certainly wasn't the fault of immigrants, illegal or otherwise.

If we keep kicking people off for not being quite up to our standards, then we are going to wind up talking to ourselves. Yeah, there are some people here solely to stir up shit and they need to go. But that is not the feeling I got from this one.

While I understand your sentiment here, she needed to go

I thought it was weird that she jumped right into this thread so boldly with her first post, but figured maybe she had been lurking for awhile and just got excited about this issue.

here at DU. It hasn't in over a decade.

behind them are former eastern european block countries citizens. most if not all major cities in the usa has european illegal populations.

starts to speak. But with people of color they will look first. I think am right. Am not trying to be offensive am just stating some truths. I all people from all over the world. I lived in europe and I loved living there.

child immigrants, check out:



Which Way Home
2007NR83 minutes

In 2006, Rebecca Cammisa received a Fulbright Scholar Grant to travel to Mexico to document the plight of the children left behind when their families travel to the United States to find work. This Oscar-nominated film is the result of her journey. Cammisa and her crew follow a trio of children who set out on their own from their Latin American abodes on a dangerous trek through Mexico en route to the U.S. border and -- they hope -- their families' embrace.

Director:
Rebecca Cammisa
Genres:
Documentaries, Social & Cultural Documentaries
Language:
Spanish (Neutral)
This movie is:
Cerebral, Emotional, Dark

Dad is the illegal. That is what I have seen in working in Title 1 schools in south Florida. In some cases Mom is a "Gringo" and her family has been American citizens for generations. Deport the entire family? Deport an American citizen who roots could possibly go back to MAYFLOWER times in ENGLAND, not Mexico? HER child too? Some of these idiots say deport ALL of them to Mexico. These "white" women are just trash and should not be making babies with Mexican men, illegal or not.

That is blunt, but I have actually heard that said in this very, very red part of Florida. The kids? They don't give a crap about them. I have to say coming from up North it defintely was culture shock to me.

HockeyMom (7,557 posts)
63. Mom and child are natural born citizens


Dad is the illegal.

Your question says, "should only the father be deported".

Did you mean something else?

Better phrased as "should the father be deported"

The guy married a Japanese citizen. For some reason, they had problems filing the right paperwork at the right time. They decided that they probably would be better off all in Japan given the situation.
It is up to the family what they do. Certainly those targeted for deportation should be given a certain amount of time to make the right decision for their family and arrangements for the changes that they will have to make.
I know that non citizens married to citizens are supposed to be able to be legal residents but that the paperwork is difficult and expensive for many families. Maybe there would be a way to make it easier, including no cost help.

That is NOT my opinion. In a case like that there should be a path to citizenship for that man, who is married to an American citizen, has an American child, is working paying taxes to support his family, has no criminal record, etc.

Though I feel that there should be a penalty of some sort and they should be required to become documented when caught.

It's much, much harder to be undocumented here with a family than without one.

If the immigrant has a child here, every effort should be made to make the immigrant legal.