!!

and trust he is trying to maintain appropriate pressure on the administration to prevent (cure?) excesses.

I still support Obama but I do not believe he is being totally forthcoming and perhaps he can not. But it is uncomfortable not to be able to fully trust in a President I worked so damned hard (twice) to get elected.

I hate that on DU you have to think Snowden is a great man and Obama a tyrant or you must support the PATRIOT ACT

it's so refreshing when reality is presented. Like a diamond in a coal mine.

To be perfectly honest, there are indeed very real and valid concerns about the NSA, and I believe that Wyden & Udall truly do have the best interests of the people in mind; Snowden I'm not so sure of.....given his prior sentiments about hackers & how they should be treated, and his support for Ron Paul.....and so many other things I've discovered.....something just doesn't add up about him.

I still think that other people are behind this whole "scandal" and I hope we find out just who has been pulling the strings of Mr. Snowden, and Greenwald. Like you, I have to wonder about his support of Ron Paul plus all those rants of his from the past, which sure sounded like libertarian BS to me.

that they're are many many of us out here who do trust the President.

I have not withdrawn my support, but I'm damn well going to hold Obama's feet to the fire on this.

Personal attacks against supporters of PBO just because we trust him and have a different opinion than you do?

And, it would NOT have required me to be "touchy"....


Re-read it now and ask yourself honestly how it reads.

You're "uncomfortable" because you don't "fully trust the President".. and I do.

no matter who the individual is.

Thus absolute, unquestioned "TRUST" on the part of supporters is foolish, IMO and that of most others-- including Obama, who also admonished us to "keep his feet to the fire".

Edit: As far as I'm concerned.. he's earned it.

did you use the word? I'm not being snarky, I'm curious. Why use the word if you thought no one in the conversation and no one being discussed resembles it?

I said nothing about that poster in that regard, except that they were condescending in throwing my being "uncomfortable" with some of Obama's actions, as though that equates to being a "non-supporter"..

All that will be left are the outliers that don't mean anything anyway.

while firmly stating that much more needs to be done is quite a bit different than you make out.

"The right people" aren't lining moving, rather the President is making sounds that he is moving. We shall have to see if he actually does, I'm not overly encouraged as it sounds like mostly PR to me but some movement and acknowledgment of the concerns in some material way is something.

WOW, that is a huge admission coming from a Senator.

See what happens when they admit to getting off script?

I second his emotions.

This is Diplomatic of Wyden ..in that he's given a WARNING to HIM.... and just as I and many DU'ers want to see Obama do the right thing...now that he's "partially admitted" that the "Spying (he said didn't exist...does exist) it's WYDEN who will watch him and see how fast the moves with this.

From Wyden:

Notably absent from President Obama’s speech was any mention of closing the backdoor searches loophole that potentially allows for the warrantless searches of Americans' phone calls and emails under section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. I believe that this provision requires significant reforms as well and I will continue to fight to close that loophole. I am also concerned that the executive branch has not fully acknowledged the extent to which violations of FISC orders and the spirit of the law have already had a significant impact on Americans' privacy.

Without the help of Edward Snowden this wouldn't be happening in spite of Obama claiming he wanted a review and this would've transpired anyway. Who believes this guy anymore?

"Without the help of Edward Snowden this wouldn't be happening in spite of Obama claiming he wanted a review and this would've transpired anyway. Who believes this guy anymore?"

...don't believe him, what exactly do you think is "happening"?

Because the Obama administration spent so much time defending the program, it would've been handed over to the next administration as is.
Like most politicians, I think Barack Obama is simply covering his ass!

so as to be essentially meaningless, which Wyden seems to know. Obama's proposals don't make a dent in the real problem. They are cosmetic changes only that will let NSA continue to do whatever the fuck it wants to do, while letting Obama go into his well-rehearsed act and pretend to the best of his practiced ability to be folksy that the FISA court isn't still rubber-stamping everything NSA wants, when NSA bothers to go to FISA at all.

the totally one-sided "justice" he could fully expect to receive from Obama's DOJ. Unlike, say, the criminal Bush administration.

And Obama's proposals just highlighted that.

I mean, anyone dismissing the reforms proposed by the President can't be taken seriously.

Those who acknowledge that they're a start or step in the right direction know that this was an important move toward reform.

is because he defies people, like you, that swear fealty to a man above principal.

Two fronts on this.

1) The President and Snowden as individuals.

2) The lack of transparency and the violation of the "spirit" for which the original surveillance legislation was intended.


Many folks were indifferent about point 1. Not any more. Much of it to do with the great effort at demonizing Snowden to folks that initially were not concerned with Snowden, but more concerned about the surveillance state instead.

You elevated Snowden to this status. You created this martyr.

He is a hero now because of you.

They want to create the impression that most people view him as a hero, which is far from the case.

It is you that has created the noise. A means of deflection.


You claim it is others who are "loud" about Snowden, after screaming Snowden at the top of your lungs, all in an effort to divert attention from the real problem.