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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSmoking ban at American University will now cover outdoors, too
At least two other local schools have implemented smoking bans this summer: the University of Maryland at College Park and George Washington University. Nationwide, the American Nonsmokers Rights Foundation estimates that nearly 1,200 college and university campuses have gone smoke-free. Montgomery College and Towson University were among the leaders of the movement in Maryland.
For many years, AU had banned smoking indoors and within 25 feet of building entrances. But university officials, prodded by student leaders who oppose smoking, decided last year that those limits were not enough. Now the ban will cover outdoor areas as well.
Three small spots on campus have been set aside for smokers, but just through Dec. 23, when those havens will disappear, too, and smokers will be forced to leave campus to have a cigarette or cigar. In practical terms, that may push many smokers onto the public sidewalks along Massachusetts and Nebraska avenues.
snip...
James Manning, 19, an undergraduate, sat with his laptop on a shaded bench on the Main Quad, enjoying the unusually crisp late-summer air. He said he was glad that the air was guaranteed to be smoke-free. I used to really struggle with asthma as a kid, Manning said. Smoking, he said, is terrible for your lungs, smells terrible and is unsanitary, in my opinion. In previous years, Manning said, he was sometimes forced to endure clouds of smoke outside his dormitorys entrance. Its a pretty big nuisance.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/american-university-broadens-smoking-ban-to-outdoors/2013/08/15/754d182a-05de-11e3-88d6-d5795fab4637_story.html
Aristus
(66,442 posts)I don't give a shit if she has friends who smoke. Be a friend, Anna, and tell them to stop fucking smoking!
The fact that it is an outdoor ban is irrelevant. She obviously has no idea how far cigarette smoke can travel on the wind. So far that, during the Vietnam War, field leaders often cautioned their troops not to smoke while on operations, for fear that the smoke would alert NVA and Viet Cong to their presence.
Smokers need to find another planet to smoke on. I hear Venus is nice this time of year. Sure, the atmosphere is toxic, but so is that shit you're inhaling...
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Or is it just smokers.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)but aren't cowboys, for starters. But at least they're not poisoning my breathing air...
My objection arises from the outrage expressed by tobacco users to an infringement on their 'rights', all the while blissfully unaware that their idiotic habit is infringing on my right not to have to breath that shit in.
The remarks in the comments section from smokers simply re-inforces my perception of smokers as a classless mob of inconsiderate mutton-heads...
snooper2
(30,151 posts)after a couple billion people are gone we can spread out far enough where smokey won't get to you...
Does pot smoke piss you off too?
Aristus
(66,442 posts)No, pot smoke doesn't piss me off, for the simple fact that I never encounter it in public places to the same degree as cigarette smoke. And, unlike our cigarette-butt-littered landscape, I never see joint-roaches all over the ground.
By and large, marijuana users seem to be a more considerate demographic than tobacco users anyway...
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Aristus
(66,442 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)If you're going to ban smoking, then it should apply to all.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)Pot smoking is effectively banned in public already, simply by virtue of marijuana's wide-spread illegality. Marijuana is now legal here in Washington State, but I haven't seen a sudden rash of public pot-smoking as a result.
Second, even if it were legal everywhere, pot-smokers would undoubtedly be required to adhere to the same public strictures as tobacco smokers.
A gallant attempt to catch me out in an inconsistency; just poorly conceived...
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I was just making a point, however hypothetical. I'm really not as stupid as your condescending response would imply. But yes, I am highly allergic to pot smoke and would no more want to sit next to a person smoking a joint than to one taking a drag on a cigarette.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Don't they know the shit they eat tons of every day?
Aristus
(66,442 posts)they're not polluting the air with the by-products of combustion, or littering the ground with cigarette butts. Being fat does not enter into my objection. You seem to be confusing a specific grievance against a specific group of people engaging in specific actions that intrude into the lives of others, for a general objection to everybody in general for no particular reason. This is not the case...
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I can understand an indoor smoking ban (even though I voted against it), but who cares if its outdoors (and away from doors and windows). I've never been bothered by a smoker outdoor. There is a lot of air out there, and plenty to go around. If you don't want to be next to a smoker, just walk a bit further around them.
(and for the record, I don't smoke, I'm just against stupid laws.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I understand your objection to smokers. I dont have negative views of them though and think theres a lot of teh stoopid on both sides of the argument. Nicotine is extremely addictive and its not an easy habit to quit. Im more inclined to sympathize with smokers rather than shame and punish them.
I reserve my contempt for the corporations dumping shitloads of toxins into our air every day. They get a pass while smokers take all the blame for peoples breathing problems. When smokers are confined to their houses it still wont be enough for some people. I think its really sad and unfortunate.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)People who object to smoking wouldn't object to it if it didn't exist. My smoke-free respiration, and specifically, my expiration, does not cause potential harm to smokers. The reverse is not true. The only way the 'both sides are wrong' argument could be valid in this instance is if my vocal objections to cigarette smoke caused physical harm to smokers.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I said they were stupid. Many of those article comments you mentioned are just that.
edit: clarity
Aristus
(66,442 posts)But consider: stupid on the non-smoking side may be annoying, but is essentially harmless. Stupid on the smoking side perpetuates a deadly, addictive habit.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)But I have seen some fairly aggressive anti-smoking people go out of their way to harass smokers in public. When all the demonizing empowers some to behave that way towards others, its more than annoying. Its hurtful.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)But it wouldn't surprise me at all if a smoker were to consider thoughtful, reasoned, polite, civil legislation against smoking to also be 'demonizing'.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)But Im speaking more of the type of thing that goes on in these threads. Smokers are stupid, losers, they smell like hell, they're forcing others to breathe their "filth". I dont wonder why they get defensive with all the blame and derision being thrown their way.
adding: there are comments downthread which illustrate my point beautifully.
Sotf
(76 posts)And welcome to DU.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)As a non-smoker, I am better than a smoker.
Now if a smoker can throw a baseball well, or draw something other than stick-figures, that is a way in which he is better than me. This does not trouble me in the least.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Do you realize how many poisons are out there...YES THERE where you live. Sanctimonious hooey. Did a smoker blow in your face today?
Aristus
(66,442 posts)They work.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Because vehicles pollute your breathing air far more than cigarette smoke does.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)endorsement of everything not mentioned in the original objection.
Rookie mistake.
Not to mention the fact that, just as with cigarette smoking, we legislate the reduction of carbon emissions from vehicles. And just as with the e-cigarette, we are slowly adapting to emission-free modes of transportation, as well.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)on the grounds that it will lead to tobacco use. The truth is the majority of e-cig users are former tobacco users who have transitioned to the healthier alternative.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)A ban on something actually harmful to others that someone is actually doing seems to be the way to go...
bhikkhu
(10,722 posts)...but having read a bunch of research, having taken a good look at the many forums about it, and finally after having gotten an e-cig setup for my wife, I have to say I was formerly very wrong-headed.
Nicotine by itself is a very different (and not especially bad) animal than the rotten cocktail of poisons in cigarettes, and the better e-cigs are so much better than cigarettes I think they will eventually replace them. And, as a bonus, nicotine alone is only about as addictive as caffeine.
So I'm all for stricter measures for cigarettes, but I would rather see some leeway for e-cigs. They carry a guilt-by-association that they don't deserve.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)and their high-carbon, dry-leaf-burning practice for making crackled-glaze Raku ware. I mean, that nasty smoke goes everywhere and in huge plumes!
We can go after the welders and brazers next
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Lets start a list.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)TDI = Turbo-Diesel Injection
While it makes for a wonderfully high-mpg rating, it also puts out high levels of fine-particulate soot, the kind that coat our lungs and cause major health problems. I don't know if anyone has ever compared the emissions between one TDI engine and one smoker, though...
bunnies
(15,859 posts)You see, thats perfectly ok because a corporation is doing it. The point here is just to target individual people doing something completely legal. The corporations that dump all that toxic shit in our air everyday are not to be blamed here. Damn people doing legal shit. WTF?!
kentauros
(29,414 posts)we need to add those New Agers that insist on burning their Nag Champa incense and using essential oils on everything!
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I dare you.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)They are quite nice. I have some (can't remember the varieties now) that I burn in a bowl of ash to both collect what falls and hold the stick up
We need to go after the physics departments on campuses, too, what with all that high-energy plasma causing all that ozone pollution. Not to mention what they do for fun with LOX and campfire grills...
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Oh... campfire grills? Im glad you brought that up. Sometimes my neighbors grill smoke makes it way into my yard. Just who the hell gives them permission to smoke-up MY air? Thats it. Time to take this ban the smokers thing all the way. We need a zero tolerance policy on grilling outside. Wont someone think of the children?
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Especially those for cooking wood-fired pizza and artisan breads
And candles. Do you know what those damn things are made of? And the STINK of some of 'em! Ugh. Gross candle-burners.
<---- what a loser.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Oh, and pilot lights! Haven't water-heater manufacturers heard of electrostatic ignition by now?!
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Lets just ban fire! Smoke pollution problem solved. I must alert the peeps at Nobel so they can give me my prize.
The Perfect Solution!
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)They're just making the event that much hotter and adding to global warming, if mostly not more than a few feet from the ground
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I don't smoke but I could give 2 shits about those that do. You do live where they have cars? Maybe Venus would work for you, they don't have cars last I checked.
Bake
(21,977 posts)I guess you're "allergic" to cigarette smoke.
Please don't fart on this planet. I'm allergic to it.
Bake
Aristus
(66,442 posts)I don't suffer an abnormal histamine reaction when I breathe cigarette smoke. But it does serve as a contact irritant to nasal mucosal surfaces, and the bronchial tree. Those chemical irritants are carcinogenic. Allergies don't enter the picture.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)If not we're cool.
If so it's douchy. Stop.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)Yeah, I don't like that gesture, either...
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I'm no longer a smoker and am glad I quit but the militant line of thinking here is ridiculous. Anyone ever go into a public bathroom while someone is taking a shit? You're breathing in their poop vapor, which while not toxic, is extremely gross when you think about it in that way, yet most wouldn't bat an eye.
So everyone, please stop shitting in public restrooms. I don't care to breathe air that comes out of your asshole.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)and we never smell any of that, despite the millions and millions of them in the outdoors. Why? A single word that gets dismissed all too often in discussions like this: dilution. The atmosphere is huge, and thus, so is the outdoors. Separate the smokers a hundred feet or more from the doorways and walkways, and most people will never know they are there.
Better yet, give them a nice water-wall fountain in a half or partial circle around their smoking area. The negative ions and higher humidity will cut down the smoke and odors immensely while giving them a tranquil place to smoke
Aristus
(66,442 posts)natural, sometimes unpleasant, by-products (ingestion and egestion), with a pointless, useless, addictive deadly habit. Another logical fallacy. See above.
Edited to add: However bad someone's #2 may smell, I never think: "Well, you know, that wouldn't have happened if they had just refrained from eating..."
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)And admittedly probably not very funny. There's no confusion, though. I do find people's shit stink infinitely more disgusting than cigarette smoke, though I concede that is a matter of personal preference.
Aristus
(66,442 posts)Although there is something to be said for the fact that we tend to confine public defecation to specialized places, often very-well ventilated, with infrastructure specifically tasked with getting rid of the offending matter in a sanitary way. If offensive smells transmit beyond the boundaries of these designated spots, people register complaints.
Bake
(21,977 posts)You just said all we need to know.
Thank you, Smoke Police.
Bake
Aristus
(66,442 posts)n/t
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)It would make this one so much more pleasant.
Sotf
(76 posts).. and mind your own damn business.
Drale
(7,932 posts)The University of Illinois at Chicago or UIC is a smoke free Campus and I thank all the Gods for that. I'm tired of coming out of class and walking through a cloud of smoke because people feel the need to slowly commit suicide.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Good to know.
Drale
(7,932 posts)I would bet you've derided someone at some time for cyber-bullying, well my friend you've just indulged in a minor form of it.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)You equate this with bullying? Really? Sorry not playing Drale but GO CUBS!
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Nowadays, people are typing on phones with weird autocorrect and such.
That person just made a typing error.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)Are they banning just tobacco or electronic devices also?
Aristus
(66,442 posts)at least is not hurting my lungs, or the users' lungs for that matter. Anything that helps them to quit...
bhikkhu
(10,722 posts)I got my wife a nice set-up a little while ago, and that was the thing. She smokes because she wants to smoke, and its nobody's business (which I find no point in arguing with). But plenty of people, especially in Europe and the UK, vape because they want to vape, and aren't interested in quitting.
So she can vape all she wants and not get cancer, and not quit, which is fine. Its clean, and no more harm or addictive than coffee, really.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Revanchist
(1,375 posts)All of my liquid is made in the US in store. Started out using the Chinese cartridges but now I only get nationally made liquid, so I'm supporting local businesses.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)And yet almost no smokers do this. They do what's easy. Go to the quickie mart. Buy a corporate produced pack.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)Most people take the quickest and easiest way out, I used to make my own cigarettes when I used tobacco also, always looking for the cheapest solution to satisfy my vices.
edit:
You have to admit though, e-ciggs are generally safer for those to use them compared to tobacco cigarettes due to the abundance of chemicals in commercial cigarettes and are less offensive to those around them due to fact that they only emit water vapor and less aroma than most perfume/cologne users.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)the smokers formed a gauntlet in front of every door. While there were other covered places where they could stand, they always huddled in front of the door, blowing smoke in everyone's faces and blocking entrances. And the cigarette butts were ankle deep even when ashtrays were provided. So maybe the smokers are responsible for their own banishment.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)A gauntlet in front of every door? Jebus how fucking horrific.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)And yes, every door entering any building on campus had smokers clustered in them to shelter from the rain between classes when everyone was trying to go in or out.
Now you may not think that is horrific, but for non-smokers who have allergies and other upper respiratory issues it is an issue to have to hold your breath to enter a building, push past loitering smokers who won't move so others can enter or exit. In front of twenty buildings on campus.
In the 60s, students and profs smoked in class. Hard to imagine such a thing today. Then the state outlawed smoking in state buildings including offices some that took years to air out! The ban on the smoking by the doors was followed by a campus-wide ban including suspending tobacco sales at the school bookstore.
I was skeptical at first that it would work, but the smokers complied. And it really is nicer to work in an environment where you are not forced to breathe another person's poison that they thoughtlessly blow in your face.
We have been smoke-free outdoors for about 10 years now. Times have changed since the days when all buildings were smoke-filled. Most smokers do not inflict their habit on others these days. And the non-smokers appreciate that.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)it stinks.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Because that really isn't comparable to having a dozen or more smokers impeding every entrance to a college between every class blowing nasty smelling cancerous smoke that is harmful to one's health at others.
I am surprised that anyone would object to the rules. At my workplace they have been in place so long, students have really never questioned the policies.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I did think comparing smokers to those with bad breath was like comparing a candle to a forest fire.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Aristus
(66,442 posts)in a short story of his. Now whenever I see a group of them huddled outside an office building, that's how I think of them.
Blaspherian
(94 posts)most of them are
bunnies
(15,859 posts)You must be a real expert on addition.
Blaspherian
(94 posts)Didn't know you condoned blocking entry into a public building by smokers gauntlet.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'm glad you don't exaggerate. Anyway, it sounds like the second paragraph of a good short story.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Average precipitation 39.2 inches. And that's average! The extremes are wet wet years indeed. Try walking to classes between 20+ buildings spread out across a large campus every winter during years when we had less than two weeks of sunshine the whole year. When we count down the record rainfall or record flooding or see the picture of the salmon swimming across the highway near the county line. We get a lot of rain, and I walk in it every day. It is the major impression I have after years of wading through it. Forgive the hyperbole. But when it rains 55 days in a row, it is easy to feel like it is always gray and wet. And wet cigarette butts do pile up ankle deep.
on edit: Actually they float.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I loved it, but you're exaggerating.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)There are permanent sandbags along the fire exit by the old computer lab that routinely floods when it rains. The terrain of badly leaking old buildings means doorways are usually filled with standing watew and cigarette butts. Whidbey Island does not get the same level of rain as the south sound which is hemmed in by two mountain ranges.
My muddy shoes do not exaggerate nor do my wet toes. The dozen broken umbrellas sitting in my office do not exaggerate either. Whidbey Island! Average 31 inches. Pfft A desert oasis compared to here.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Blaspherian
(94 posts)Smokers stink
alp227
(32,047 posts)Did the tobacco industry infiltrate DU or something? What's so hard about not forcing others to breathe your filth?
kentauros
(29,414 posts)The atmosphere is absolutely huge when compared to even a large group of smokers outside. There are no ceilings, no walls, only the ground, and often there's a breeze. Only the existence of the ground remains for comparison for those smoking indoors, where dilution, or lack thereof, is a major problem.
Why not just require a smoking area at least a hundred feet from all doorways and walkways (easily done on most university/college campuses) along with a fountain to help cut down on their emissions? The fountain creates negative ions and humidity that help precipitate those odors and particulate out of the immediate atmosphere, further diluting the offensive emissions. You'd never know they were there!
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)SOMEWHERE for people to smoke.
If you are worried about the air from 50 feet away then maybe somewhere ventilated. The way the article makes it sound would leave no where for people to smoke.
Blaspherian
(94 posts)in the sewers, smells about the same.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)And people would complain.
How about offering heavily ventilated areas in select locations.
Though as a life long non-smoker (though my parents used to smoke, and I do have friends who smoke), I do not see the issue of having out of door smoking areas. Being far away from everyone else and the smoke going into the sky rather into other people's faces sounds like a good idea.
And as noted above cars and other combustion machines create far worse contribution to the air than a sole smoker.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)for smokers. I suppose this will include pot smokers soon.
As I said upthread, smokers seem to have accepted the smoke-free campus idea as it is about 10+ years old and hasn't really encountered much resistance other than the occasional scofflaw.
clarice
(5,504 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)... to a mostly smoke free society.
I remember watching the clerk sweeping up butts on the floor or our local grocery. Smokers have, as a whole, always been self entitled slobs that left their mess for someone else to pick up. They might not see it that way. They may see it as the way it's always been - having someone clean up after them.
Sorry for the word slobs but that's just the way it is. When you throw your garbage on the floor/ground, you are a slob.
Last spring, I happened to walk past a Starbucks after the thaw and saw now less than 500, maybe a thousand, butts that accumulated on the sidewalk and were covered up by snow until the temperatures warmed. Talk about disgusting.
I spent the first 10 years of my work career having to sit through meetings where the smoke would be so thick it would hang down at about waist height by the time the meeting were over. God only knows how much extra I spent dry-cleaning suits. Some of the guys I worked with died of heart attacks in their 40s. I always wonder how much damage I incurred to my system so some idiot could burn some rolled up leaves inside.
I just don't have any pity for poor put upon smokers for having to keep their stupid habits to themselves.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)They think when they cast away this 'tiny' remnant, that it magically disappears.
Nope. They can clog sit in the ecosphere for decades, clogging water systems and leaking poison into lives.
Blaspherian
(94 posts)everyone who smokes wants to quit, this gives them extra motivation.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)It's the sort of place where if 1 person finds 1 thing enjoyable, 5 people have to try to ban it. Political correctness, nosiness, NIMBYism and liberal-authoritarianism run amuck.
I'm going to go hang in the quad with a Camel and my friend Jim Beam while talking on my cell phone about having sex in the dorms. (That's 4 things AU has banned or attempted to ban from campus in the past 15 years: tobacco, alcohol, noise-polluting electronic devices and sex. Only the last one was met with any real sense of absurdity.)
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Although, Whatsamatta U has a nice ring to it as well
bunnies
(15,859 posts)alp227
(32,047 posts)And the thing with outdoor smoking...OTHER PEOPLE are affected.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)They really are a laughing stock with their ever more absurd efforts to modulate and control the daily lives of their students. I went to college in a strict religious seminary at The Catholic University of America and there was less of a coercive effort to regulate the lives of the students. RWers are not the only people capable of being totalitarian controlling fuckwits. American University has taken it to high comedic art repeatedly.
Generally, no actually. Unless you're in a partially-enclosed space or right on top of a point-of-egress, it's been shown repeatedly that outdoor smoking has a near-zero environmental-quality impact; the smoke dissipates too quickly into too large of a volume of air to have any appreciable impact whatsoever. It has less of an effect than direct sunlight on smog and the natural release of putrefying gases from trash cans. I'm hardly a smoking activist, in fact I'm in favor of banning the cancer sticks completely...but there is a need to remain confined to reality and fact so one does not become absurd. Outdoor smoking bans on the basis of public nuisance are absurd.
alp227
(32,047 posts)Do you not believe in the right not to be forced to breathe other people's filth?
And here are examples of pollution caused by outdoor smoking:
http://www.repace.com/pdf/outdoorair.pdf
http://www.repace.com/pdf/OTS_FACT_SHEET.pdf
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/may9/smoking-050907.html
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/may9/smoking-050907.html
It's not that difficult to understand not everyone wants to breathe one's filth. Or see others' vulgarity (regarding so-called political correctness).
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Who said anything about seeing? There is no seeing involved here. It's people butting into other residents lives...think all the things the state can't invade your privacy for and realize the university's position is that they can invade your privacy for any reason they see fit to enforce their imposition of social values they (and apparently you) find appropriate. In public and private. With or without cause. Even conduct that is legal.
Are you on the side of freedom or the side of the Moral Majority? The side of the right to privacy and civil liberties or the side of imposed morality and Big Brother? Me? I support freedom. You're free to support the authoritarian imposition of morality...you, American University, Mary Ann Glendon and Rick Santorum. I'm still going to make fun of all of you for it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Much as many will, I imagine, laugh at the intransigent and fundamentalist dogma implying that one either has the freedom to smoke wherever, whenever, and onto whoever they want; or is guilty of bowing at the feet of that diaphanous and over-dramatic "Big Brother". A rather stark (and fallacious) choice, lacking both thought and nuance (not to mention knowledge of relevant law).
Being a smoker myself, I think I'll allow myself a few giggles at that astounding particular lack of critical thought and context, and then dismiss it as little more than a badly conceived melodrama.
(You may insert a sad, but righteous rationalization here to better justify the irrational...)
Chan790
(20,176 posts)It's about yet another overreach by the moral imprimaturs of American University to impose social-behavior and morality that they find appropriate on a society in which they are a very-small vocal morality. Any Democrat or progressive that condones that kind of overreach and conduct isn't truly any different from those on the right that attempt to impose their morality universally on the rest of society.
You see smoking, I see the same identical justifications and argumentation I get when I run into my friend from college Kate (who works for National Right-to-Life) who feels it's vital to tell me whether I really want to discuss it or not why it's imperative to well-functioning society that no woman have the right to ever have an abortion. It's bullshit no matter which side of the political divide you're on and there is no appropriate response to it other that dogmatic intransigence. Now I find myself closing in quoting that eternal enemy of the fundamentalist right and authoritarianism, Barry Goldwater:
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
alp227
(32,047 posts)Complain all you want about busybodies, but SOMEBODY has got to intervene into people who butt into other people's health by burning cigarette butts, no pun intended. In the REAL WORLD, the majority of people do not want to breathe other people's filth! Not to mention some people are ALLERGIC to tobacco and can get very ill or even die with a whiff of tobacco! And the real world has RULES too. Don't like American University's rules? Find another college instead of a religious one.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Having been a pack-a-day smoker since the summer of '84 (and still smoking a pack a day), I can empathize with the grade-school defensive posturing and petulant labels of "nanny-stater" and "authoritarian" from my fellow smokers to a certain degree, yet I have pretty much relegated myself to smoking only in my apartment and in my car.
As an adult, I can't really justify pushing it onto those around who don't wish it, or rationalize my habit in allowing its damage and unpleasantness onto others. If I did think that way, I be forced to call myself 'self-centered.'
But I'm quite certain that many selfish people will in fact, justify it, and rant on with a gloriously righteous rage about a Stasi-style police state denying us the freedom to blow smoke onto whomever, whenever and wherever we want to.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)It is called common courtesy. And being honest about the effects of second-hand smoke on others. In the long run, denying yourself a few cigarettes will ultimately not hurt you right?
I recall my father making the decision to smoke outside when he wanted to quit. It slowed him down a bit. And the inconvenience was self-inflicted because he loved his non-smoking family enough to want to clear the air.