That'll get the GOP to support it.

of this country.

the Congress. nt

But I can say that it doesn't bother me when he lies to us. And I think most people here just want the spying to stop.

The Robert's court, is unlikely to even hear a challenge, much less rule against how the executive branch is using duly passed laws to protect "national security". Hell, the FISA judges are appointed by Chief Justice Roberts and it would seem that all of this activity takes place with the court's approval.

So your comment makes no sense. There IS a scandal, and according to Ron Wyden and Udall, it is way, way worse that what we already know. This isn't going away, it is effecting this country. Not everything is about ONE politician. And frankly people are at the point now on all sides where they are sick to death of the partisanship that has helped bring this country to where it is today.

If Obama doesn't want to be tainted by this ever-growing scandal, he needs to get on the right side of it right now. But that's up to him. The rest of us have families, loved ones, relatives and friends who have served in the US military and who do not want to live in a country that is more like what they were told they were fighting against, than the country they thought they were fighting to preserve as a Democracy.

There are 300 million people in this country, NONE of them are more important than any other. No politician, no Wall St. banker, no one.

I eg, care far more about my family than I do about any politician, no matter who it is. And so does everyone else I know.

Something has gone very wrong in this country, but we knew that. We elected Demcorats to begin the job of fixing it.

the problem, instead of working fixing it. A prime example is Obama himself. I feel so betrayed. I had such high hopes about his change. Now I wonder, where is it?

It doesn't fit my ideal of what type of person Obama truly is? Maybe the President didn't know? We can argue that he should have known. We don't know the truth but I think the President does have a responsibility to get to the bottom of it. This character Alexander at the NSA was appointed by Bush and has been at the NSA for longer than the President has been in the White House.

These people take roots in places like the FBI, CIA, and the NSA and they must be watched very closely and changed as often as needed. That is the responsibility of our Congress. They need to do their jobs also.

I do not at this time think that this President conspired or planned to keep the facts from the people. Maybe he is only repeating what they told him were the facts? How would he verify that??

We simply do not know enough facts to start pointing fingers, in my opinion. But the President should ask his Attorney General to check it out thoroughly and report back to him in 60-90 days. But, in my opinion, he does need to address this issue, even if his advisers might be telling him to just let it cool and let it go away in a few days?

Your relentless efforts to belittle or diminish those of us who express concern about this administration's missteps are becoming tiresome and offensive.

investigations. I will add yours. Help me if I characterize your argument.

1 Calling for investigations into possible major violations of laws and possibly the Constitution constitute "trying to make a scandal that will stick to the President."

2. The current NSA/Booz-Allen scandal is on the Congress and not the President. (help me here, I need a justification)

Also, how does the President's misleading rhetoric (the NSA / Booz-Allen arent spying) fit into placing the responsibility.

Principles over party. Always.

Pole dancer.
Boxes in the garage.
Traitor.
There was nothing we didn't already know in Snowden's dump, but the stuff he revealed got people killed.
Tea Party racist.
Bush was a lot worse. Why weren't you complaining then?????

Look! Shiny!

If Snowden really thought he was right, why isn't he willing to spend time in jail until a trial?

The jury has already been selected for his trial.

Even though it's quite alarming.

Thanks for lightening up this thread.

And sadly, that is the truth.

How did that work out?

They have beg, pleaded and pressured multiple nations. They have threatened nations through various diplomatic means. They caused the Bolivian President's plane to be grounded. They have canceled meetings. There have been high profile calls and press conferences on it. And, that is just what is public. They have done about everything but "scramble jets" and put boots on foreign ground to get him.

....remember, he sent out at least 19 requests for "asylum", all were refused.

Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Russia.

The point remains, the US has tried like hell to get him.

...direction vs aimed at whatever dem that can win in 14 or 16

"It is time for another full scale investigation, much like we had with the Church Committee in the 70's. They will fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening but, in my opinion, it is much worse today than it was when Frank Church led his investigation. "

...you said that before:

It's worse than Watergate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023339427

I still completely disagree.

On the NSA, this is what happens when reports conflate the Bush and Obama administrations.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023471576

and lead the way to reform. That would be a major plus for the next election cycle plus it would be the RIGHT thing to do.

"Luckily, it is not up to you! I am hoping the Dems get on top of this and lead the way to reform. That would be a major plus for the next election cycle plus it would be the RIGHT thing to do. "

...doing what: enacting the reforms already proposed? establishing a new Church Committee?

being spied on is weak when newspapers are reporting it is not so. He needs to get on top of it and really push tough reforms or the Republicans will do it.

Really?

It's interesting that you're dismissing reforms proposed by the President and Democrats, but implying that Repubilcans will push through "tough reforms."

You're talking about a party that supported Bush's illegal spying.

But they'll put together a duplicitous campaign that implies that they will fix it all, and they may win on it.

the above post. Sometimes I don't understand where that person is coming from.

that Americans aren't so dumbed down to the point that they actually believe republicans will fix anything. A republican couldn't run a lemonade stand without totally corrupting it and screwing the customers.

And yes, I agree, Warren 2016.

Bush Republican, in charge of selecting an 'independent' committee? Who says Republicans can't push reforms? The President doesn't seem to agree with you. Did he not appoint Clapper for the job 'working' on getting these reforms started? He IS a Republican, is he not?

repugs jumping up and down about this.

Met every racist fuck in my city at the time... how fun that was. I even drug my hungover ass out of bed on a sunday to meet him and shake his hand. When the time came, two people behind me reached out around me and all I got was the moment of terrified panic from candidate Obama... Now, we had been through four levels of security to get there... You'd think he'd been calmer. It's been downhill ever since.

I got that same panic--I swear he was looking right at me when he sorta leaped back with a frightened expression on his face. I have been wondering ever since what the hell I did to trigger that response.

I want all private contractors out

Giving private corporations money to spy on Americans and others around the world. What is the recourse, a civilian trial, a fine of 100 million when the company netted one billion from the deal. Or better yet, we can hear the excuse, 'too big too jail!'

Because the private contractors are selling info...

I don't mean the people, I mean the system, the laws, it's all set up to put property over people, the right to buy what you want as the ultimate right.

Look at CIA folk in Congress: Porter Goss, was one, and he used his new position to hire crooks.

Who else?

“I just don’t want to see something this significant – whatever the pros and cons – go through without anyone noticing,”
“ says one source on the Hill, who is disturbed by the law. According to this source, the law would allow “U.S. propaganda intended to influence foreign audiences to be used on the domestic population.”

Iran-Contra was quite close, and most Americans are against Iraq--but Congress and the WH will still waltz with the CIA/NSA/NSC/Pentagon hawks: that's the important thing

than watergate...the problem is mr idontrecall was not impeached

for those too young to remember in iran/contra the cia brought in cocaine to the USA and sold it to pay for weapons for the contras...all while mr idontrecall was escalating "the war on drugs"

Lemnitzer was a golpista, too, and Secord and Singlaib were his followers: Poindexter and North were just cat's-paws and disgraces to the uniform: the Adm. was in charge of TIA (glad that's gone!) and the Ltcol. is on Fox after ordering 1.5 metric tonnes of cocaine from just one druglord...

That and the Al-qeda (gold seal) hash.

They had a secret agreement with the Iranians where they were not to release the hostages until after the 1980 election. This bunch has no regard for democracy, in the US or anywhere else.

The increase in Afghan poppy production cannot be an accident. Heroin use has expanded into rural areas of the US where it has never been heard of before. It's a war on drugs in name only.

That includes anyone doing the investigation. Let's hope that anyone doing the investigation doesn't have anything to hide.

It would show that the threat is being exaggerated and it's mostly avoidable as a lot of it is due to blowback for our policies and covert operations.

If those stopped, the world would be a lot more peaceful.

and even if it did, it would be a total whitewash. You have not faith, you say. You'd be correct.

Fantasy

before they allowed a real investigation.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

— Frank Zappa

Even if we have an investigation.

The laws to prevent illegal use of the data are already there.
If the government chooses to secretly ignore them what can you do?

An investigation might send a few minor minions to prison but that doesn't do anything to mitigate the problem.

LIES, abound. But another ''investigation'' carried out by the corrupt will render absolutely nothing. How many times must we use the same processes, the same laws, the same methods of correction which do not work, before we realize that only the insane do the same things over and over again, expecting a different outcome to result.

It's time for a NEW PARADIGM.

- No more new wine in old skins......



“Problems cannot be solved with the same mind set that created them.” ~Albert Einstein

we do not have someone like Church in Congress anymore.
Remeber it was the DEMS who signed onto TARP and Patriot Act,
and who have been vewy vewy quiet and ineffectual about all the bank and morgage fraud.

The NSA is running scared, for sure. They have been caught violating their rules of procedure and infringing on the privacy rights of thousands of American citizens. This afternoon I heard was an NPR report on the latest revelations. The presenter went out of his way to offer the NSA story line; that is, that the NSA only made 2,750 "mistakes" out of the millions of phone calls they have listened to, so we should be quite satisfied that they are doing all that's humanly possible to protect our rights.

Well I have a story for them too: I ran a red light and got pulled over by a cop. He gave me a ticket and I had to go to court. I told the judge that I had gone through that intersection thousands of times and had never before run a red light doing it. I assumed, of course, that he would let me go with a warning, just like the NSA expects us to do in regard to their crimes. Guess what really happened . . .

in Washington DC, just before the election in 2008. Now who could they have possibly been listening to? Remember that Bush and Cheney were still in charge and were ignoring all the rules at that time.

Sounds like someone who would be interested in buying a bridge I own in Brooklyn.

Not a foreign language to be found.

- Immolation

another 9-11 if it looks like one might happen. lol.

eom

he is FISA

We need to get that away from him. That and canning the contractors. Those are two reforms I could agree with.

it can been going on for so long though. I'm glad this has come out for the public to see.

outside the "circle."

I worked inside what some called the "green NSA." Some things need to be revealed, some should never be revealed. Outing Plame is an example of something that shouldn't have happened. It endangered American and foreign operatives. It also harmed our efforts at controlling the spread of nuclear weapons.

Intelligence work is like shovelling a ton of shit in the hope of finding a pearl. Most never find the pearl, and spend the rest of their lives smelling like shit.


After a few hours of sifting through traffic, you are so fucking bored you don't care what you see or hear. All you notice is words that matter, and when you see the words or phrases, it is probably nothing. Computers only add another layer of boredom.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."-- William Casey, CIA Director
My Teacher was an ex-navy officer who taught American History,he was not seemingly happy until he had our class in a lively debate.
We need more of those who can engage young minds and arouse passion and free thinking.

For right now,i am sick of defending our Government to the Rabid Right.
Especially when they do something so stupid as to violate our constitutional rights in order to protect the elite from the common citizenry.
Reminds me of another quote:
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."--Benjamin Franklin

It merely required thousands of intercept operators listening to encrypted radio signals.

but it won't just be "luck" it will be because people everywhere, of every stripe,
rise up and insist that it be done to preserve at least some pretense of democracy.

The CIA for instance when screening potential new hires looks for the ability and the willingness to lie and lie well. I know for sure I read this in one of my political books. It surprised me to see this in print. I am pretty sure I read this in the opening chapters of this book.

Sam

So if we want a functioning intel operation then we have to have some "lying".

Filled with truthiness and lacking any specifics.