The minute I heard the news about Manning, I just knew we were going to have to deal with this. Such a shame on DU.

Today has been a trying day.

We used to see posts ok'ing inmate rape for those who committed really awful crimes until enough of us said, "No one, NO ONE DESERVES TO BE RAPED." Now I rarely see those posts.

It really gets me down when I see so many DUers with such hateful attitudes.

Somehow, I avoid most of the vitriol by watching what posts I even open.....some I just know will bring grief. But sometimes it just pops up in an unrelated post, like these people have to insert it for me to read.

But I totally believe DUers are open to having their consciousness raised.

the smart ones learn to keep their opinions to themselves after being informed of how insensitive they are.

Either way works for me. I don't want to be subjected to the same things I hear on right wing talk shows when I come here.

I saw it today as well.

I seem to have been swimming in it today.

'There is nothing so dangerous as ignorance in action'.

Not sure who said it, but I believe it is to be very true.

Very Highly.

Thanks.

Well put.

R&K

Thank you for addressing it head on. I like your style, too.

It's from the heart.

Well said.


I'm sorry this needed to be said.

I still remember the days when people who called themselves "feminists" started a war with TG. The folks on the feminist board will remember that, and I saw many feminists defend the TG, to the point where the main bigot was driven right off of here (names need not be named). Now I see some people throw grenades behind walls of internet to say things that frankly, were intolerable, but are hidden because the rabble rousers have filed the teeth off the jury system.

But I do think some of them were mislead to what they were actually arguing about at the end. Some...

I wish I can explain fully to them what was going on behind the scenes. The transphobia and sexism in the feminist's flame-war was horrid. I'm glad that was over with. BUT isn't this the same fucking debate in different shoes? Different arguments in the same bigotry... I don't know where to even start. But at least this is an argument where people can see the fine details of who's a bigot. It got SO murky after I intervened last time, because the debate became about me intervening. That didn't go so well.

A lot of people used you coming in and saving the ship from crashing on the reef as an excuse to spew crap. However, I am not trying to rip open old wounds, but pointing to the past that says yes, the light can prevail, and, as Catherina said so well, we are not done by a long shot. Right now, the main thing is to make sure the jury system is not abused, and the only hope of that is for people like us to force people to own up to their crap, even if they hide behind a wall of internet smoke and mirrors.

Some people hate change, and the people that change it. I represented that change at a certain point and people jumped at it. Not knowing what the fight was about in the first place. I can recognize that. But at the time, we were simply thinking that they were supporting the trans phobic crap that iverglas spewed along with the other trolls who were banned. The original fight was about how they believed trans women were imposters to the feminist movement, because they are not true women, and because men cannot be feminists. Plus feminism is about making our society a matriarchy? That is the bulk of it. That was the true fight. Besides the clutching pearls and what-not.

The fight against me was right after I kicked iverglas's butt out for saying that and trying to use her power to simply ban people from the feminists group instead of trying to come to some sort of peace. Then it became about why in the world is that allowed to kick out iverglas's butt? When I didn't "allow" a vote from the other co-hosts. Even though it seemed clear that the co-hosts were completely on board with iverglas at the time, and they definitely weren't helping to calm down the flame-war at all. They simply furthered it by making me an enemy for no good reason. At a certain point my main goal was to simply keep iverglas out of any kind of true power. She repeatedly used it against me when she had it. She also said that the LGBT group on DU aren't like the LGBT people in the real world and kept stating how nasty they all are. Oops, I'm a bisexual on DU. Never mind me. Seemed to be anti-LGBT in general come to think of it.

We also found out at the time that everyone can share Du Mail, and people were also outraged over that. Even though I begged Skinner's forgiveness a few times, I wasn't out of line in sharing a Du Mail it seems. (I was totally naive about DU rules at the time, just like everyone else. Except I wasn't around on DU2 much, so I was further clueless on that point.) I shared it to figure why the fuck people were fighting. They all turned out to be hosts of other groups anyways. But consorting with the enemy was bashed against at the time. Hence the website iverglas set up. She didn't want our conversations to be in the forum hosts group. By the time the questions came to be about why I wasn't allowing a vote in a fucking flamewar, I decided there wasn't any reason I should explain why. It seemed pretty obvious. It was about power and who had it, and I didn't even ask for it, didn't want it. Wanted to say bye bye DU. But I'm stubborn. It's how I got through my first semester of college with double pneumonia and being abused at the same time. I don't stop like that...


I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our dirty laundry is showing because we have no moderators. It has always been this way on DU and people simply never knew that. Meta gave people a nastiness that wasn't ever tolerated on DU before that forum was created. I'm glad it's gone.

The good shown here on DU against the ignorant or trolls is wonderful however. Count your allies too and believe that at least the jury system works sometimes.

If there is any theme to the Obama era, it is that all the masks we wear came off, for both good and bad. It hurts, but it is also the first step towards getting problems solved.

Though since you did name names, I will say this, I AM happy to see iverglas GONE

The debate only became about you intervening to take the focus off why you intervened. I've put that whole thing behind me because what healed after that whole mess is only stronger and there were trolls on both sides who worked hard to divide. What comforts me is that our group is stronger than ever now to confront this head on. Yeah, so we lost a few trolls who pretended to be on our side but were more interested in attacking some principled Feminists who had dared critique the President than standing up for any principle. Good riddance to them lol. That was certainly a defining battle here and I'm grateful we had that first battle to be stronger for this one. We all know who we can count on and who we can't. It went well darling. Principle won thanks to your intervention and it's going to win this one too.

The debate is always about you, or me, or BB, or whoever when the assholes have no leg to stand on. Fuck them. They're too miserable in the lies and hate consuming them to pay any attention to. Unhinged by their own blind hate lol.

New chapter? I can't tell you how excited I am for you! I'm hoping for one too because we may be expanding our shelter to another town near the Honduras border. Right now it's still just talk from a socialite but she seems sincere about helping us. We're crossing our fingers because this would be big. It would increase our tiny operation many, many times over.

...I usually wonder if they are liberal and then wonder if they would like something to drink.
It's like saying "Tom here is 5' 11".

Why defend the message, when you can attack the messenger instead?

are the most honest and the bravest people I know. Anyone who has never been through the process with someone or part of the process with someone cannot possibly understand how very difficult it is. The outcome is miraculous in most cases but the process is torturous. All it takes is a little thought to begin to imagine how difficult and life changing this is.

I have no respect for those who refuse to even try to learn how to address people dealing with this issue.

I almost wish I had been here to fill my empty ignore list. At this point there is bigotry or acceptance and the only reason for bigotry is willful ignorance and a need to hate on others. I have no room in my life for people like that.

Well said.

Thanks for that.

but you have said what I could not. I've been so angry and disheartened today I could hardly string two words together . . . and even if I'd been able to, I'd have never said it as well as you have done.

I'll listen to you anytime!

Most of DU didn't go there,
and those who did only exposed themselves as the bigots they are.

Most of Du is very giving & caring. Thats a good reason to stay here.

I did wonder where I'd been, that I didn't have a clue about Manning being transgender, but I figured it wasn't my business and as long as he isn't hurting anyone he should do what he feels best for himself (or herself, if that's more appropriate).

I interacted with transgendered people in a previous job, and always caught a lot of not-so-gentle kidding because I called them "he" or "she", depending on circumstances; mostly they were male to female.

I've had to tell more than one person that people should be treated the same, with respect and kindness, regardless of what we think of their sexual identity, orientation or lack there of.

It says something that you had to post this on a supposedly forward-thinking message board.

This world is hostile enough without us attacking or disparaging each other.

We had a Trans woman stay with us for a few months while she looked for a home.

Discrimination was a very real problem for her.

I hope things worked out for her.

We run into her occasionally and she is living a happy life.

Next time you see her give her a hug from me.

I hope my doesn't get jealous.

and to twist fundamentalists, that skew His words in to hate and exclusion.

I agree with you, 1000 percent.

Anyone paying attention to this story would know Chelsea didn't make some snap decision for attention.

Trans rights are the next frontier, and we still have a long way to go with gay rights.

We need to get a trans-inclusive ENDA now!

but I just posted this to my facebook page.

when I find myself recommending what should never have to be a post of this nature on what is suppose to be a progressive site, but it is the way it is these days and someone needed to call it out. Thank you, William.

Thank you for speaking out for honorable behavior and common humanity.

Was it about Bradley Manning? Thank you for speaking up for our transgender friends. Glad to be the 100th rec!

to get surgery.

...to see this happening. Let's hope some much needed common sense returns here and fast!

Looks like that is underway, I hope it is a clean sweep.

It's amazing how many so called demcrats can get so nasty when it comes to things like transgender identity. It reminds me of how this board gets whenever we try to talk about rape. I just don't understand how democrats can have some of the attitudes they have about these issues.

Luckily. I think the vast majority of DU is better than that, but I winced pretty hard when I had coworkers making prison rape jokes about it this morning when I got to work.

As said in Star Trek 6:

Gorkon: "Well, I see we have a long way to go."

What I miss in the Forums if it's hidden I see there. Let's just say today has been a very busy day.

I saw a post this morning (jury hid it thankfully) and knew it was going to be a rough day here. This is supposed to be a site for liberals.

Let's hope they are shamed into leaving or are MIRTed.

To the rest of your comment.

people who post such ignorant and disgusting transphobic bullshit. Fuck it, its long past due for admins to issue straight forward guidelines about transgender topics. I can understand if someone is honestly confused about proper mode of address, I can even understand that lots of people are simply ignorant about gender identity and genetic component,. But what I saw today was straight forward bigotry and those arseholes were getting away with it.

Fuck it. Just really fuck it.

Thank you for the hug. I'll stand by you doesn't matter what.

How does altering technique affect character?

Well said!

when issues like this come up. I, for one, am always appreciative for the opportunity to confirm my suspicions about people who I have no doubt don't really belong in this community.

It sucks but is ultimately a good thing if some housekeeping is done.

I am so sorry this is going on here.

Hekate

One of the many things I admire about her is that from the day he made up his mind to transition, she referred to him as "my son."

I remember the beating of a transgender woman at a McDonald's and the ones here who showed such a display of hatred are no better than those savages who have beaten that poor woman.

k & r

myself, I know who you are talking about, she is worthy of support.

I have been a patient advocate. And I know how damn difficult is for transgender folks to get respect at your local ER, for example. In this place, people should be more careful

A Navy SEAL's biggest secret: Life as a transgender

Former team members praise Beck's courage to come out after 20 years.

In the super-secret world of the Navy SEAL, Chris Beck carried around an explosive secret of his own during his 20 years with the elite, all-male unit: a transgender life.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/04/seal-team-6-transgender-memoir-warrior-princess/2388431/

Well said. It sadly shows how far some assholes will go to defend the evil their masters do.

WE will get there dear William. The transphobics are on the losing side of history.

CeCe McDonald whom I wrote about so much last year hoping to get DUers interested in her case, and several did thank you, is still languishing in a MALE prison for daring to stand her ground against a vicious transphobic attack.

Just last night, another transgender woman was savagely beaten in NYC and died.



RIP beautiful Islan Nettles.

We will not lose this fight. For Frederique my cousin, RIP, for Cece, for Islan, for all my trans friends here, and all the transgender brothers and sisters scared shitless of the haters, WE WILL NOT LOSE THIS FIGHT!

Well said. Like the old times dear William.

I can't handle another day of this.

And yes RIP beautiful Islan Nettles.

I'm so sick of this. After reading about Islan last night, I logged off and cried and cried but this morning I'm ready to kick more ass. Take the day off if you need my dear friend.

At least we've established since last year's painful war, that we won't tolerate it and it won't be tolerated on DU. I have been so proud to be your sister.

RIP beautiful Islan Nettles

He grew up as Little Harold, named after his father. My uncle Harold was a WWII vet, served in Germany, volunteered for the testing at Bikini Atoll and never ever let anyone forget his military career of 35 years. Imagine the shock when he thought his namesake was gay. He finally realized that he was not gay, but actually Hannah, a woman trapped in the wrong body. This was back in the 1970s and I was a child, so I did not understand all the fuss and yelling and crying when she announced she was flying to Switzerland to have gender reassignment surgery. Hannah did not see her father again until 1982, when he was dying in an isolation ward in Walter Reed. I remember thinking "if only we were all like children and could accept other people at face value."

K&R.

the hate parade because it is predictable and I have a hard time being civil to those who like to attack my trans friends and family.

It doesn't seem to be letting up.

Take care.

that certain words and phrases are offensive. Luckily, most people are willing to edit and learn from OPs that anger others. If someone insists on using certain terminology or pronouns after being personally warned, that's a different story.

Edited to add that I have been away from DU and haven't come across the OPs and offensive posts in question. I am not in anyway defending anything offensive that may have been posted.