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Justice wanted

(2,657 posts)
Sun Feb 26, 2012, 08:20 PM Feb 2012

Can we make futures speculation illegal? We see Wall Street again taking steps to crash our market

again. We see this happen with the "Housing Bubble" and the first crash in 2008 NOW we see the prices of oils going up and up because WALL STREET is again playing YET Again with our economy not even a FULL 4 years later.

NOW this article:
http://thinkprogress.org/report/koch-oil-speculation/

Honestly we need to gain some sort of control on WALL Street before we have a 1920s crash.

(humble opinion here.)

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can we make futures speculation illegal? We see Wall Street again taking steps to crash our market (Original Post) Justice wanted Feb 2012 OP
Yes. nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2012 #1
How about a hefty tax on all short term investing n/t doc03 Feb 2012 #2
Its not so much people as it is an insufficiently regulated market bhikkhu Feb 2012 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author MikeOlsen Feb 2012 #4
you can't make speculation illegal. you'd have a tough time even defining it. unblock Feb 2012 #5
I believe FDR made it a crime during his 3rd term. Initech Feb 2012 #6
...the worst president according to Libertarians and Reaganites. JNathanK Feb 2012 #10
No. Buying into the future is an important part of commerce. banned from Kos Feb 2012 #7
It was a crime until Reagan was president. Initech Feb 2012 #8
I've been molested enough times by the invisible hand. JNathanK Feb 2012 #9
We should regulate so the market serves max utility to the People PufPuf23 Feb 2012 #11

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
3. Its not so much people as it is an insufficiently regulated market
Sun Feb 26, 2012, 08:57 PM
Feb 2012

Its always tempting to imagine some individual mind behind bubbles and price swings and so forth, but if you look at the history of the markets its more just the dynamics of an unregulated market. Group activity can cause boom and bust cycles without any individual intention.

Its worth noting that "our market" essentially is Wall Street, and crashing it isn't in anyone's interest, except for a few who would see that as benefiting the next election - but I don't think that's what is happening either. Its just a regular cycle, lacking sufficient regulation.

Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

unblock

(52,236 posts)
5. you can't make speculation illegal. you'd have a tough time even defining it.
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 12:03 AM
Feb 2012

what you can do is cut down on LEVERAGE, by simply increasing the margins or capital requirements that already exist on futures and comparable derivatives. done properly, it would still let people help set the price properly, yet limit the influence of those without an immediate supply or demand need for the underlying asset.

for example, the initial margin for a nymex futures contract for 1,000 barrels of light sweet crude oil is a mere $6,885. so you can control about $100,000 worth of oil merely by putting up $6,885. if they were to double this, people would be able to control half as much oil for the same margin. this drives speculators away but the hedgers are stuck and have to play (though they may not like it much). this way, the market power shifts toward the people with genuine supply/demand needs.

the futures markets exist for a reason, which is that the market for people with genuine supply/demand needs simply works better when others are able to reasonably participate. the trick is to constantly set the margins in a range that doesn't let the speculators run rampant, not squeezes them out entirely.

i would opine that a 14:1 leverage ratio is permits too much leverage and that the margins should be raised a fair amount from here, at least doubled.

Initech

(100,076 posts)
6. I believe FDR made it a crime during his 3rd term.
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 12:24 AM
Feb 2012

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think St. Ronnie Raygun is the one who made it legal.

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
7. No. Buying into the future is an important part of commerce.
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 12:32 AM
Feb 2012

It will NEVER be illegal and making it such is a stupid idea.

PufPuf23

(8,776 posts)
11. We should regulate so the market serves max utility to the People
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 01:30 AM
Feb 2012

at minimum risk to the Planet. Humans are guests.

Futures in theory and principal are fine and stabilizing to markets.

In practice, futures are an insider and technocratic game that bleeds wealth and income upword from the People and local communities by the nature of the structure and ethic.

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