or military before he chooses a path for life.

This is GENERALIZED, of course, but education (which can not be lost or taken away, for the most part) is the thing that makes the divisions between economic class more permeable.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm

Lifetime Earnings Soar with Education
Masters degree worth $2.5 million income over a lifetime

By Robert Longley, About.com Guide

Dec 31 2011
How much is higher education worth in cold hard money? A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma, according to a recent report from the U.S. Census Bureau.

The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (.pdf) reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $3.4 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $4.4 million.

"At most ages, more education equates with higher earnings, and the payoff is most notable at the highest educational levels," said Jennifer Cheeseman Day, co-author of the report.

The figures are based on 1999 earnings projected over a typical work life, defined as the period from ages 25 through 64.

I get the impression that many of you are at least my age and finished your education in the '80 or before.

I just want to note that times have changed. Tuition at my college was $8500 when I graduated and the job market was good. The tuition for that same school today is $37,000, that's per year, and the job market awful. Kids are graduating today indentured servants to banks.

I'm recommending a trade for my nephews, HVAC. Like health care, it is projected to be a growth industry. Additionally, 18 is awfully young to be thinking in terms of life long pursuits. I received my degree in economics but after working in corporate finance, I grew completely disenchanted. Today, I'm a low paid mental health worker. I really enjoy my job. Had I known how much I enjoyed psychology when I was in college, I would have gone for an LCSW or PsyD. Go back today? Wouldn't think of it. There's no better feeling in life than being debt free. Sad, but almost the truth.

I'm telling my nephews to get some worldly experience first and find out who they are before thinking long-term. And maybe by the time they go back to school there will be jobs.

This is just one of tens of dozens of articles that I've read on this matter since 2007. I posted it, not because it's special, but because it was at the top of the page when I searched "employment rates for college grads."

Cracked.com lists are very hit-and-miss depending on the submitter, but some of them are great.

is about 4%. For those without, it's about 9%. That's worth something.

They hire you because you have a degree but they pay the wages that an unskilled laborer was getting a few years ago.
Last job offer I had was for half of what I was making in 2001 when I got laid off. That's why I work for myself now. The pay ain't much but I don't have to put up with incompetent stuporvisors.

I'm not saying college will allow him to earn significant amounts of money, but not going will virtually assure he won't.

With housing prices so low, you could buy a house (or put a big chunk down on one), and when the housing market picks up (it will eventually) he could take out some of that equity if necessary to pay for a student loan then, possibly getting both a house and an education for roughly the same price.

I guess it really depends on what your son's plans are after HS, though, if he's willing to spend a few years deciding what he wants to do in college or if he wants to go at all.

People's individual situations vary, of course.

The son would have a home free and clear (taxes aside)..

Or at least that's the way I read it.

From parents? Loan?

Duh.

specifically for college. If you can put down 40-60%, you don't need a great job to pay the remainder financed over 30 years. Obviously the person is going to have to get some sort of job, which may help them decide what they want to do in the future. A little hands on experience may be good to help someone decide with they do (or don't) want to do before they invest in an education for it. No, this isn't for everyone, but I know people who have done this and benefited from it.

Where I was going with this. He was just an ok student in high school. With money I have set aside I could buy something outright and he would have no housing payment ever.

does he know where he wants to live for the rest of his life? Does it make sense for him to be tied down geographically? I understand that you're thinking about security, but at his age, that is more of a hindrance.

go back and reread it!

several $100,000's over the average work life.

I can't cut-and-paste from the government PDF, but it says:

"Does going to school pay off? Most people think so. Currently, almost 90 percent of young adults graduate from high school and about 60 percent of high school seniors continue on to college the following year. People decide to go to college for many reasons. One of the most compelling is the expectation of future economic success base on educational attainment.

- snip -

...based on data from the Current Population Survey as collected in 1998, 1999 and 2000."

I have a very intimate relationship with the world as experienced without college. I went to school having no idea what I wanted to do when I got there. I've decided on my major and am now working toward a profession. This may change, but it took being in college for me to really put in the time to do the soul searching required to discover what I really want to do and to see an actual path to get there. College to me is so much more than classes and a degree, it's about discovery and recognizing possibilities.

I spent several years in the workforce before going to college. I got really sick of being in the service industry and low level clerical positions.

College was my renaissance. It was much, much more than just a bunch of classes with a piece of paper at the end.

I think it's only a waste if someone goes who is really not ready or interested.

Best of luck to you!

College indeed is "All That." However (as I posted above), I've encouraged my nephews to get some worldly experience before entering college.

It wasn't the case when I graduated, but leaving college with no experience isn't worth diddly-poo in this day and age, folks.

I do feel that I might not have appreciated the unique opportunity I have in college without having worked low pay scale low autonomy jobs for the past 20+ years. So there might be something to be said for taking a bit of time off, but if the maturity is there, college is what you make of it and you can make a heck of an opportunity for oneself if one applies oneself.

you would never have had if you didn't go. It's priceless, IMHO

we would have been so much better off.

But depending on what your child wants to do, College is an absolute for most long term financially sound lives.

without college, we would be working until the day we died (and I would have died without the insurance coverage our COLLEGE prepared jobs provide)

on the major he selects. Some of the most challenging degrees are in demand and pay very well.

"Ditto" on so many other replies here.

Good luck!

On edit: it has been my experience to observe that for many high-paying jobs that do not require a degree, personal safety is at risk more.

I guess I would say that if he has or can get a job to carry a mortgage that mightbe a good investment.

the money I have saved for college for him would probably buy him a house or condo outright. He wouldn't have to worry about carrying a mortgage. He would just have to make enough for living expenses. I see so many kids buried in debt with no jobs.

Tuition and medical expenses are excluded from the gift tax. Property is not. You could not buy property outright in his name without him being responsible for taxes. The first $26,000 is excluded -- double if you have a spouse and the assets are held jointly.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html

He need not know exactly what he plans to do, he has time to figure that out.

I am the first member of my family to go to college. And it changed my life for the better. I took loans, cautiously, worked part time.

Of the guys I grew up with, about 14 of us ... 4 completed college ... 30 years later ... those 4 are way above the others in net worth.

Here is how my parents explained it to me a long time ago ... if your job is to carry heavy things, you can do that until you are 40 or 50, but it takes a toll on your body ... a college education helps you get a career that relies more on your brain. Your brain does not wear out as fast as your body ... in fact, your brain's ability expands the more you use it.

And so ... if you can ... you want to get a career that relies more on the power of your brain, then on the power of your body.

My father, and his father, and his father, were carpenters. By the time each was 40, their knees were shot.

They did not just encourage me to go to college, they demanded it. And I thank them for it.

Having said this ... one of my best friends is a sprinkler fitter. A Union guy. He loves that work. He loves the mechanical aspects.

You and your son should discuss such things.

There is no "right" answer.

Years out of four. I hope to go back some day.. so to me, yes.

path he wants to go before he starts, and also that his chosen path will result in a fairly decent job when he graduates. Some paths of study in college lead to no real job prospects upon graduation.

I've been there and done that. I then went to two years of technical school after college. Adding that all up worked extremely well for me, but today, college is too expensive, so IMO, he needs to maximize the resultant value of spending four years in college.

As some posters have said, if he does not go to college, that will probably pretty much lead to a cap on his lifetime earnings. To me, the value of a good college education leading to a job upon graduation is of more value than a house/condo.

it might benefit you both to sit down and discuss some options.

Consider the possibility of going to a community (2 year) college. At the very least, he could enroll in a 'General Education' associate degree program, which offers several benefits:

1. it is cheaper than a four-year.

2. it would allow him to experience higher ed and expose him to potential fields of study he may not have thought about.

3. it would, particularly if he completes the degree, give him a good head start if he decides to go on to a four-year program - a completed A.A. or A.S. is usually completely transferable, so he would be able to bypass many of the core gen-ed requirements at the four-year school (another $$ savings).

Additionally, most community colleges offer degrees in areas that used to be the purview of vo-techs, so if he truly has no interest in pursuing an 'academic' course of study, he could still get the training and skills he needs to find a decent job. Many offer culinary degrees; firefighting; various health related fields (respiratory techs, EMTs, etc). Some offer degrees in mechanics of various types; drafting; even truck driving.

Best of luck to you both.

if neither one of you is sure about it. He might get a much better handle on his life by going out and working for a living for a year or joining the military or the Peace Corp.

Unless there are some specific jobs he wants to pursue that do not require a college degree, such as a licensed electrician, employment is for high school graduates is insecure and very poorly paid, and is likely to get worse. But graduating with the wrong degree doesn't help either. A general liberal arts or social science background isn't the ticket to a good job any longer

Students with work experience who have lived their own tend to do much better in college and be more motivated. They are also more likely to have an idea of what kind of work they might like and do well.

One suggestion about buying a house: You could reverse the normal order and buy the house first. Then if your son wants to go to college in a year, he can take out a line of credit against the house. Buying a house might actually make your son a lot more attractive to colleges, too, since it indicates responsibility and initiative. If you stick with state universities and in-state tuition, you might not even need the whole $80k depending on where you live.

Just some thoughts. There are a lot of problems with the way Americans go to college and the way colleges fail to connect with careers, but if it's done thoughtfully, a BA or BS gives you a MUCH better chance at a good future.

the idea that "employment for high school graduates is insecure and very poorly paid".

I have two college degrees myself and they seem to not be worth the paper they are printed on. I was working as a factory temp and trying to get hired at this factory where I worked. The factory hired instead some 21 year old kid, except they fired him after a background check because they found out he lied about having his GED. The bottom line though, is that they hired a kid with a GED over a 38 year old with two college degrees.

I have now worked at a decent paying janitorial job for ten years. I make semi-decent money doing that. Do I need a college degree for this job? Not hardly.

Then there is the army. A high school graduate can join the Army or the Navy or the Air Force and make decent money, and retire at age 39 with a decent pension. Some chance of getting killed in a war or severely injured either physically or mentally, but that can happen in other fields too, or when you are commuting to some civilian job.

There are other jobs, like plumbing or truck driving, that make decent money without college degrees.

A house is nice though, like you said. I noticed when I graduated from college that about $10,000 of the expense was for tuition, and $15,000 of expense was for room and board. But board is a big part of that expense too. The dorm provided meals as well as clean sheets and bathrooms and dishes. No grocery shopping, cooking, dishwashing, etc. was required. A big savings in time and money.

Today, even a master's is not enough

nt

A lot of kids go straight to college from HS because a) it's expected and b) there are no alternatives. Consequently, too many drop out or don't finish in four years, in both case with a ton of dubious debt.

I think if a person doesn't have an articulable reason to go to college right after HS, he or she should take classes at community college or find something else to do before plunging into debt on someone else's agenda.

BUT, he needs to be careful about his choices. Make sure the major he eventually chooses is marketable.

If he has no clear direction, it is unwise to pay out-of-state or private tuition. Best to stay in state and public for the best value while he makes up his mind. The first two years are typically general ed courses. Later, he might consider transferring to a school with the best program in the major he finally selects. Also, check if there are any regional campuses for a state school in your area. If he could continue living at home, it would save substantial money as well.

I would say get started and give it a try for at least a year. It's not like you have to pay for it all upfront. Short-term, he'll probably be OK but will lose a ton of ground in his later earning years. It's so much harder to go back later.

Not in this economy.

I have an associates degree, and I earned a living with that for almost 20 years. However, it was extremely stressful (working with nasty lawyers and judges) and I burned out before I was forty.

I also got a BA in biology from an excellent pre-med school. Couldn't get a job with it.

Also got a Juris Doctor (Law degree). Couldn't get a job with it either. I could have been a super-qualified paralegal or training trial lawyers, due to my years of courtroom experience as a court reporter. Went through my law school's placement office to look for a job. In two years of searching, I got exactly ONE interview for a paralegal job, and no offers. That's damn discouraging. It's been twenty five years since I graduated from law school.

I am glad I have the knowledge I got from all that schooling, but nothing beyond the two year degree even got me an interview for a job using the bachelor's and the doctorate.

I did not have enough energy to go to undergrad and work at the same time. Parents paid for that. I worked fulltime at the courthouse and went to law school at night and it took me five years. I don't owe any student loans because I managed to graduate before everyone got them.

I had some crummy temp jobs that drove me nuts. The people I worked for just didn't understand me and they could not communicate. They would end up firing me for breaking some arbitrary rule they didn't tell me about. I gave up looking quite a while back. I just can't deal with management types who think that a policy is the same thing as a law.

If you are two minutes late to work, the sun will explode, we will be little cinders on a big rock cinder, and we will all be dead and not know what hit us.

From my experience, I was lied about, discriminated against when I was far more qualified than other candidates, and there were some people that just like to yell at their subordinates. I was a perfectionist at work, and I was always efficient and pleasant and I did not deserve the years of abuse I put up with.

Your son needs to explore what his interests are so he can major in something he truly enjoys. My folks told me I had to get a science degree because they thought that was marketable. Turned out to be difficult for me, and didn't get me a job at all.

and finish off at State

the first few years are spent taking requirements like English, math etc anywhere you go. you can take a few classes in things that you have an interest in to see if like the subjects. Then most if not all of those credits can be used to finish off at a 4 year school. Plus you already have a 2 year degree. This gives you 2 more years to figure out what you want to sturdy. If I was 18 again this is how I would do it.

just kidding. Yeah its worth it but keep debt at a minimum

Many private schools do give out lots of $ in scholarships

I would recommend going to either a two or a four year public school that is within driving distance. I spent four and a half years living at home and attending a state university. I graduated debt free because the 10,000-12,000 a year I earned working part time was enough to pay my tuition, my books, and my gas money. Actually, I only took three and a half years to graduate (I happened to know exactly what I wanted to do and walked in with almost 30 credits from high school), but I spent two semesters taking classes of interest after that just because I was still trying to find a job. I've been happily employed for a little over a year now, so it all worked out in the end.

... he can work towards a military career.

He could work within the ROTC program and get his commission. Only you and your son know if that would be a fit for him though.

It may be a roll of the dice whether college fattens your wallet, or whether playing the stock market or investing in real estate might bump you a couple rungs farther up the social/economic ladder than a college education would...but I'd still vote for a good education any day.

I am currently paying off student loans myself toward a career that didn't pan out, but it was worth it in many ways, and down the road one never knows. I don't know anyone who would look back and wish they were less educated, or that their mind was smaller, or that they knew less about the world around them, or that they had just learned less and had more money.

Can he buy a house in a town that has both a junior college and a state college?

If he has no rent, then he can work his way through junior college very easily.

For college, he could continue working, take on roommates, take out student loans, and/or do a number of other things.

What does he say he wants to do? Does he want to go more for the liberal arts, or something like science or engineering?

On the other hand, he could stay home for a few years and go to JC there.

Eh, you have options.

Figures claiming hugely increased earnings over one's lifetime are grossly exaggerated and wildly unrealistic. They also have the added bonus of making you feel like shit when your degree doesn't actually net you a million more than the plumber who fixed your sink.

It's largely a scam preying on young people who are generally ill-prepared to anticipate the realities of decades of crippling and inescapable debt.

In short, college can be worth it, but it sure as hell isn't any sort of guarantee of future success or earning potential.

Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying, poorly informed or delusional.

Even if he has an interest in a "useless" degree the enrichment value of the time spent exploring and thinking about various subjects is invaluable.

The house will come if it's something he wants. If he wants to go to college I would encourage it 100%....

Just to let you know my daughter just graduated with a degree in Vocal Performance and found a job for almost 50,000 per year. Now I know she was damn lucky...but still.

I understand that the main thrust here is "earning potential." I'd rather look at it as a "quality of life" issue. I could never replace the college education I received so many years ago. I could also never measure the value of it when it comes to my life. It isn't the "major" that effects you as much as the "well-rounded" general education on any number of subjects that has made the difference.

I learned far beyond my emphasis...I learned about the world and learned to speak intelligently on any number of subjects.

-P

100 %. I have a "useless" liberal arts degree that has brought me a wealth of happiness from my broad scope of interests.

College isnt for everyone. I didnt go after high school and went back when I was 33. I recieved an Associates degree and that was 20 years ago. I now work for the state government but I still dont make much more than when I was working in construction in my 20's. In fact, I was making quite a bit back in the late 70's and 80's by working in construction.

My daughter just graduated in 2011 with a BA from California State University and it nearly broke me. And right now, she can only find a retail job for not much more than minimum wage. If you want to invest money wisely, a person can do just fine getting a degree by going to a junior college and then transfering to a four year institution a few years later. Calculus and C++ are the same regardless where you learn them.

As for buying that house, that is the best investment you can get for him. With a house to call home, there is opportunity to go and follow whatever path he deems to be his destiny. But he needs to learn to always save for that property tax or he will find that he only owns it as long as he pays the tithe.

In so many ways for me. Everyone's different, but I really got a lot out of the college experience.

I'm going to be graduating with my 2 year associates degree this semester; At 40 years old, married with two kids, working full time and taking 6 years to do it at my local community college. I self funded it the whole way.

Why? I'm a 20 year IT veteran and have a boat load of certifications old and new. But for any job that is posted that says bachelors degree required, HR will filter into the trash before the hiring manager gets to see a resume. My son is 4 months, I'm hoping I'll complete my bachelors before he hits high school.

Oh, if I had that bachelors degree, I could have been making double the salary for the last 5 years; without it I can't get in the door unless I know the hiring manager personally. Sigh.

Since he doesn't know what to do, go for a general education transfer associates. Get all the basic classes done as cheap as possible. Then if he goes for the 4 year degree only that last school will show on the diploma.

Why not start off at the local community college and see if he develops an interest? Trade schools (if he knows what he wants) are a better investment.

For now, a job and a few courses in community college. Eighteen is very young for many to know what they want, and the cost to muddle around for a year or two at most four year schools trying to figure it out is prohibitive. In a community college he can keep his hand in and perhaps working will generate a little motivation and give him a clue.

You don't say whether he's the academic type. Does he have other aptitudes? Mechanical, carpentry, whatever?

The US economy seems short right now of a lot of crafts/tech labor. If he likes to work with his hands, training to be an electrician or a plumber or almost any of a number of skilled trades is a good option.

in my case, I was out of work for over a year, if I didn't have a college degree, or if I was tied down to my previous town due to owning a home there, I'd still be out of work.

I would favor a college education over owning property. It's not necessary to go into $80,000 debt, he can go to a state college of course.

It seems to me that at this point, more than anything else your son needs to focus on discovering his own interests and aptitudes and exploring career options. If there are universities and/or junior colleges in the area, he should visit their career centers to see what kind of services they offer in that regard. He should shun for-profit "career" schools, especially at this stage; they'll only try to sell him a bill of goods and they're very costly. Despite the low housing prices these days, I kind of think a house might not be the best thing right now; it might tie him down if he needs or wants to relocate later, as young people so often do.

Have you ever heard of the book "What Color is Your Parachute?" By Richard Bolles? It is a wonderful book about job hunting and career exploration. A new edition comes out every year. Here's its website:

http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/

There is quite a bit of money in construction.I have a number of friends that make 500k to 1.5m per year owning their own company after 10 or so years of OJT.I did the same.

I also have a few friends that went to Tech School for HVAC that now own their own company and do quite well after a few years of OJT.


Drive to succeed is a must tho to accomplish either.

And it greatly expands your world. We need much, much more of those attributes in this country. If you want to be a professional, it's essential.

College isn't for everyone, but it's a real path to success.

Seriously. It is all a fucking game to them.

education is free or nominally priced. Even in the US it was fairly affordable until just 15-20 years ago.
What is wrong with the USA that only well-offs are allowed to achieve their full potential? That is the
question one needs to be asking.

Assuming you're not skull & bones

nt

and I make more than your average plumber. I know, because I'm also a licenced plumber.

I had no high-minded motivation for getting my degree, only the desire to get my ticket punched. The kind of life and career I wanted required a college degree. The job ads always ended with "College Degree Required." No job application ever required a transcript or asked for my major. Working my way up Fortune 500 Land, my college degree was less than useless when it came to actually functioning in the job, but I would not have been considered in the firstplace without the sheepskin. There were many reasons for the "College Degree Required" phenomenon, one being that aptitude tests were severely restricted in the mid 60s so the gatekeepers used college as an administrative shortcut.

Had I stayed on the careeer track I probably would be retired now. Most of my colleagues took early retirement and big cash payouts long ago. I chose to go out on my own as a freelance speechwriter more than 30 years ago and never looked back.

Of course, my college degree cost me close to zero--Community College, followed by CUNY Hunter--so it was well worth it.

The plumber thing? A friend of mine was a third generation plumber who had failed his licensing exam twice and asked me to help him study for his third try. I helped and learned more than he did, including all the skills required for the practical section of the test. I decided, "What the Hell" and took the exam too. He passed, just barely, and so did I. Achieved a very high score in the joining-cast-iron-drain portion--oakum, molten lead, etc. Being as absent minded and accident prone as I am, handling hot lead would NOT have been my first career choice.

Is a $200,000 college degree worth the cost? For most of us, probably not. Graduates of the so-called top schools do well after graduation because of associations that go back to before they were born. Is a college degree worth it?

Absolutely yes! And for reasons that go far beyond dollars and cents.

An "average" high school senior can't get a scholarship

under $2,000 per semester and most of his friends receive some level of financial aid.

Is a college education worth the price of a sub-compact car?

We started putting money away for tuition when the kids were born, but if we hadn't I'd take a second mortgage, a student loan... anything. I don't know how well they'll do or even if they'll ever get their degrees, but if they don't it won't be because we didn't do our best to encourage and support... and yes... go into debt if needed. We've done it before for less important things.

It's. Just. A. Piece. Of. Paper.

That piece of paper helps risk averse HR personnel sleep at night.

... but not so much any more. And I would say, for all of these wonderful studies about how much a college degree will increase your lifetime earnings, that "that was then".

College used to be relatively affordable, but prices have been rising well beyond the inflation rate since almost forever, and now it is not.

I would say whether or not a degree will "pay off" depends ENTIRELY on what the degree is in, if you get an Art History or Anthropology or almost ANY liberal arts degree it is not worth a bucket of warm spit to an employer.

That's exactly the kind of thinking criminal banks cash in on. A lifetime of learning is what's important so by all means spend money on your child's education to facilitate that but don't needlessly waste money on the institutional corruption that most colleges practice. English and math skills are easily obtained at affordable places like community colleges and are the most important parts of the first couple of years of college. After establishing a solid foundation of those skills, then consider dropping some big money on a large institution.

I was so incredibly shy and very attached to my family. Luckily, my Mom pushed me to go to college. I had to learn to speak up for myself and fend for myself. I was always good in school so the learning/degree part was the easy thing. I have a degree in Psychology. I never went on to make big bucks being a psychologist or anything but I do work in an elementary school and used some of the knowledge of child psychology at my job. Maybe college is not for everyone but some people get a lot out of it and not with just the degree aspect. Also, if you want to save money, try community college or a state school. I went to a state school and never regretted it.

The only way we can compete as a nation is by having a highly educated and skilled workforce. That does not mean that every individual with a college education will succeed, or that everyone without will fail. It means that your sons chances are much better with a college degree than without one.