http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Projection.html

be sure to engage the real perpetrator.

That is why we oppose military action!

And the first bully I'm going to stand up to is you. Because this situation is nothing like the one in WWII. Syria does not have the most horrific military force the world has ever seen, it is not invading other countries, it is not rounding up minorities in concentration camps and throwing them into furnaces. Its nothing alike.

Further, had Germany listened to its peace loving liberals the Nazi's would never have come to power and there would not have been a holocaust or a WWII.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Hermann Göring, as quoted in Nuremburg Diary (1947) by G. M. Gilbert, p. 278[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Alex Comfort, Peace and Disobedience, in Peace News (1946), pp. 6-7[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Every government that intends war is as much our enemy as ever the Germans were...the safeguard of peace is not a vast army,but an unreliable public, a public that will fill the streets and empty the factories at the word War, that will learn and accept the lesson of resistance. The only way to stop atrocities is to refuse to participate in them.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Martin Luther King Jr., Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community? (1967)[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Mahatma Gandhi[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?

If your argument had any merit you could get us to go along based on reason and logic. Rather you resort to fear and vague associations trying to shame us. If comparing us to Chamberlain is the best you can do, it just shows me you have no argument at all and makes me all the more convinced that military action is wrong and that fighting for peace is the right thing to do.

No more war. No more strikes. No more violence.

It's time for us to solve our problems peacefully with our brains rather than with our fists.

... for him to read - I'm sure that once he reads them he stop gassing children/people.

Looking forward to hearing him say: No more violence - over and over again.

Maybe they will stop blowing innocent people up and trying to force their patriarchy and religion down everyone's throats! Yeah they will totally change their tune once they take over. And Iran, maybe they won't start a mini world war if we strike?

And maybe, just maybe both sides of this debate will quit throwing out insults to each other calling one another Neville Chamberlain's and Hitler and will debate each other with respect acknowledging that we all want what is best....


Naw we rather resort to childish snark and sarcasm.

Or at least if we're going to make them, make them accurate. Chamberlain is infamous for giving Hitler the Sudetenland, not for turning a blind eye to the Holocaust.

The US isn't offering up Lebanon or Iraq to Syria. This attitude of needing to bomb things to make bad things stop is only going to get thousands more people killed in the long run.

There are way, way too many bullies in the world for us to stand up against all of them. What makes Assad worse than any other bully? In fact, the US of A tends to bully on occasion. Shhh...don't tell anyone.

I agree!

Damned near every major conflict since WWII has been instigated or strongly influenced by the USA.

AND not once, to the best of my knowledge, in all that time has any nation's lot been improved by the unwanted and unasked for attentions of the aforementioned USA.

A small handful of US interests make out like bandits every single time, and for everyone else not in that protected class, losses tend towards inverse proportion to assets. ie. The less you have, the more likely you are to lose it.


ALSO: See LostOne4Ever's post Post #5 below. Bravo. Plus, plus, doubleplus good.


Oh yeah, and: "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war."

Not quite so glorious when you put Herr Göring's spin on it, is it?

Not bombing Syria isn't actually giving Assad anything. I wish people who don't know how to actually employ analogies would just stop using them, because it makes them look stupid.

which belonged to neither of them.

I don't know what Neville Chamberlain would do in this case, but going before congress to try to have a punitive strike authorized would be out of character, a whole different narrative.

We plant the seeds. We arm the world. We provide a false equivalency that support of authoritarian regimes is analogous to "stability". We create huge military/intelligence infrastructure so that the world grows dependent upon us to fulfill what should be, a global civic responsibility. We give weight to "humanity" where profit can be realized and cast aside compassion where economic interest is barren.

We are broke, dismantling public works, selling off public assets, while assuming the role of global humanitarian, through violent acts in exclusive regions, that provide exclusive benefit, to exclusive people.

You may need to get your spell-check fixed: "pragmatism" does not start with a "w".

What are the targets? What are they going to be hit with? What will it do in terms of sheer physical damage? What are the political goals and will this accomplish them?

What's the potential for killing civilians as "collateral damage". Where do you draw the line between "acceptable" civilian deaths and "too costly"? How many dead civilians are you OK with vs. how many put it into the zone where you think "maybe this isn't the best way to do this"? Or is it "whining" to ask for that assessment?

And what's Plan B if it is ineffective at accomplishing the intended goals? And Plans C, D, E, etc. if that doesn't do the trick either?

What makes you so sure it's a Neville Chamberlain moment and not a Franz Ferdinand moment?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002734428

I do appreciate the grandiosity of "bold" analysis and predictions, but it is helpful to be right.

CK_John May 27, 2012
Assad has less than 10 days to live. It's only a question of who will be the instrument of justice.


David__77 May 27, 2012
We will see in ten days - I personally doubt that... Thankfully, NATO and the US will not intervene militarily - directly. Their chosen proxies in Syria are quite inept, by the way. Obama is not so foolish as to openly facilitate the creation of Salafist terrorist base at the heart of the Arab countries.

I may still be proven wrong as well - hopefully not.