General Discussion

Prism

(5,815 posts) Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:08 PM Sep 2013

Why don't we have a controlling federal policy for the 2nd Amendment?

What I mean by this is, we have a fairly sturdy, universal structuring and understanding of, say, the First or Fourth Amendments via the Supreme Court and Congress. And yet, the Second Amendment seems a kind of a state-regulated free for all. You can have cities like Chicago and Washington D.C. with fairly tight gun control laws, but these laws are rendered meaningless if surrounding states or counties have lax policies. The trouble with gun-regulation, seems to me, is that what any one state or municipality may deem appropriate may be usurped by the neighboring state or municipality next door.

Conservatives love that situation. They always say, "Look at Chicago! It has the tightest laws in the country!" As if guns cannot travel four miles from a neighboring state or county.

I'm ignorant of this constitutional history, so I'm genuinely curious. Why/How did gun control become the province of the individual states and municipalities?

I'm sympathetic to the idea that rural vs. urban entails different uses and needs, but in an increasingly interconnected society where you can travel from rural to urban in a heartbeat, it seems almost useless to have such vastly differing laws and regulations in relatively small geographic areas.

11 replies

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Highlight:

Why don't we have a controlling federal policy for the 2nd Amendment? (Original Post) Prism Sep 2013 OP

It's part of the constitution but because of gains in technology gopiscrap Sep 2013 #1

National policies are nothing but an uphill battle Prism Sep 2013 #2

What's that supposed to mean? badtoworse Sep 2013 #3

paid off enough lobbyists, lawyers, judges and politicians gopiscrap Sep 2013 #5

That's a really good question and I don't have the answer. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #4

I've read your posts on gun control Prism Sep 2013 #6

my solution is this: lastlib Sep 2013 #7

Nice in theory Prism Sep 2013 #8

I call this approach "Brainy Smurfing" derby378 Sep 2013 #9

The BATF regulates and enforce a lot of federal gun laws NightWatcher Sep 2013 #10

But why the break down? Prism Sep 2013 #11

gopiscrap

(23,762 posts)

1. It's part of the constitution but because of gains in technology

Reply to Prism (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:09 PM

Sep 2013

the NRA has bastardized the admendment.

Prism

(5,815 posts)

2. National policies are nothing but an uphill battle

Reply to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:14 PM

Sep 2013

I have no illusion there. And I'm ambivalent about second amendment issues. But, even so, I recognize the stupidity of having, say, Chicago pass tons of gun control measures and, say, Will County or the State of Illinois having more lax policies. (Note: I don't know their specific laws and policies. I'm just using them as an approximation example).

If a city says, "Hey, no," but the state or county says, "Eh, we're kind of fine with guns," isn't the outer entity getting its way in practice? Isn't that compartmentalization fairly impractical on a practical level?

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)

3. What's that supposed to mean?

Reply to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:14 PM

Sep 2013

gopiscrap

(23,762 posts)

5. paid off enough lobbyists, lawyers, judges and politicians

Reply to badtoworse (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:16 PM

Sep 2013

to twist the admendment to ridiculous lengths to allows shit that the framers never would have thought about

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

4. That's a really good question and I don't have the answer.

Reply to Prism (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:15 PM

Sep 2013

Certainly, some legislation has come down the pike- federal restrictions and requirements.

Maybe it's just that there's so much opposition by the public and by well-funded organizations like the NRA.

Great question.

Prism

(5,815 posts)

6. I've read your posts on gun control

Reply to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:17 PM

Sep 2013

For many months now. And I think you and I are about in the same place. Staring, blinking, trying to figure out a path forward that both respects the constitution and recognizes the current problems.

lastlib

(23,257 posts)

7. my solution is this:

Reply to Prism (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:30 PM

Sep 2013

We all have the right to "keep and bear arms." We define "arms" as a slingshot. Everything else goes to the foundry for meltdown. Your right is protected.

Don't like it, you can move to Somalia.

Prism

(5,815 posts)

8. Nice in theory

Reply to lastlib (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:34 PM

Sep 2013

But it's not realistically feasible at any point in the next several decades.

I'd like to figure out a path forward from where we are today that, if it isn't currently politically feasible, is at least practical enough to fight for.

derby378

(30,252 posts)

9. I call this approach "Brainy Smurfing"

Reply to lastlib (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:47 PM

Sep 2013

Brainy causes a lot of problems for the Smurfs sometimes. This is mostly because all he does is make things worse.

An example is when he forced everyone to be so quiet, that not even a needle can drop, only because Papa Smurf wanted some peace and quiet to get some sleep. He went so far to make everything quiet, he cast a sound-proof barrier around the village that made no sound get in or out, but this also prevented anyone else from entering.

He also believes that he is smarter than everyone else and that he should be in charge. Sadly, most of his ideas go wrong, and he usually finds a scapegoat for the mishaps he causes.

His heart, however, is always in the right spot; in the The Smurfs And The Book That Tells Everything adventure he uses "The Book That Tells Everything" to benefit the others and when - thanks to a dam break - he and Baby Smurf were stranded on a little sliver of land in the torrent. Brainy asked the book for help and it responded by telling him that it was too important and that he should give up Baby. Enraged by that prospect, Brainy tossed the book into the river before grabbing Baby and swimming to the shore...whatever his flaws, when push comes to shove, he actually knows the right thing to do.

http://smurfs.wikia.com/wiki/Brainy_Smurf

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)

10. The BATF regulates and enforce a lot of federal gun laws

Reply to Prism (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:52 PM

Sep 2013

Federal gun laws do exist and are not under the sole discretion of the states.

Prism

(5,815 posts)

11. But why the break down?

Reply to NightWatcher (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:55 PM

Sep 2013

I certainly understand there are federal and state and municipal laws. But why is it that we've allowed this specific civil right a kind of ad hoc enforcement?

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