Oh, and the corporations pay NOTHING.

And, finally, we get NOTHING for the money that we pay in. The rich reap it ALL. From our pockets, to the government, and into the pockets of the rich. WHEN are we going to get to use some of the money that WE pay in?

Yeah, we on DU understand the depths of the tax waste in this country, but Tea-GOPukers are still fighting the British.

Taxing work is counterproductive. Taxing goods we buy from other countries, other economies makes sense. It balances our trade expenditures with our sales to other countries. And it help build a strong economy based on labor.

In some parts of Europe at one time, they based the amount of taxes to be paid on a castle or a house on the number of windows in the building.

What do you suppose happened? Yes. People let buildings with lots of windows go to ruins and built buildings with fewer windows.

We respond to the tax system in our country. If you tax labor, there is an incentive to reduce the numbers of laborers. It makes work efficient when you bring in lots of expensive machinery to replace the humans, but your tax system is shot because you relied too much on one aspect of your economy for tax revenue.

I am not suggesting completely doing away with the income tax. I am suggesting balancing it with some other taxes like import taxes.

You don't believe me?

Here goes:

The window tax was a property tax based on the number of windows in a house. It was a significant social, cultural, and architectural force in England, France and Scotland during the 18th and 19th centuries. To avoid the tax some houses from the period can be seen to have bricked-up window-spaces (ready to be glazed or reglazed at a later date), as a result of the tax. It was introduced in 1696 and was repealed in 1851, 156 years after first being introduced. Spain and France both had window taxes as well for similar reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

Excellent post.

And penalty taxation for outsourcing as well.

Infrastructure, education, health care--we get to pay for those things out of pocket or do without.

We have a boffo military though, keeping us safe to live under bridges.

and there might not even be any bridges to live under.

designed to make people believe a lie has ben very successful.

Every dollar the convenience store clerk earns is taxed 5x higher than the next dollar that Bill Gates will earn.

The great mass of voters in my state ARE overtaxed. Sadly, they're not bright enough to figure out why.

and the GOP. The Tea Baggers are the poster children of tax/govt hatred and ignorance. Of course that is only at the surface level of taxation in this country, or it is for them. I don't think any of them even understand the basics of the tax code.

They want to go back to the Gold Standard, but have no idea what that is.

And Lee Asswater. They brought you the welfare queen and lots of other bullshit to win elections. They convinced white middle class that black people and government bureaucracy is wasting your tax dollars.

Yeah, there are real disparities here, and the upper levels pay a far lower percentage of their income in taxes, even though they complain mightily about the dollar amount.

The problem is that starting back with St. Ronald of Hollywood, it was put out that government is the problem, government is bad, you can spend the money more wisely, and welfare queens are driving Cadillacs while honest citizens can't afford what they want. It's been hammered in, over and over, until too many people believe it.

It's possible that the ACA, better known as Obamacare, will open people's eyes. But I suspect that far too many who've been drinking the koolaid and voting Republican all along, will be very happy with their new health care, and continue to vote for the person with the R after the name.

I wish we could selectively keep such people from enrolling, at least for the first year, so they would finally see exactly what it's all about, exactly what they've voted for, exactly what they want to deny everyone else. Sadly, we'll enroll all who are entitled to enroll.

you are talking about the same people who made protest signs saying "keep the government out of my medicare". I hold little hope for a good portion of this country.

I wish I could respond with great heat and verbosity to prove you wrong, but I can't.

I've said in a few other threads that too many of the people who are discovering that to their amazement this new health insurance thing is going to be vastly cheaper and at the same time better than what they had before, if they weren't actually uninsured before, too many of those people have been blithely voting Republican for too long. They just don't get it.

that it will be a money saver to most Americans the repukes will start crowing about how it is modeled on RomneyCare. Yes, I know, I am a bit cynical.

Most of our tax dollars are eaten up by nonsense.

But they want the government to hire profit sucking, crooked private sector contractors for even the basics, because they actually believe it will save money.

I used to argue with my father (a crazy financial republican) about taxes here all the time and I finally ended the argument about 2 years ago with the following:

I commented that, I would rather live in Finland, being in the income bracket that I am in here. he, of course, freaked out and said something to the effect of, " are you insane? they pay 40% in taxes there!"
I replied thusly, " yes dad, they do. but let's look at the numbers. i made about $55,000 last year and paid, approximately, 29% of my income in taxes. therefore, by not living in Finland, I saved a little more than $6,000." he of course, jumped in, " see, I was right!" to which I replied, " yeah dad, but that's only half of the equation! You see, I also spent $11,000 on health insurance last year and paid off a $15,000 student loan, both of which would have been non-applicable were ia resident of Finland because health care and secondary education are both covered by that 40% tax you pointed out they pay. and that's not to mention that they score higher than us in every single measure that is said to make a country healthy and viable from infant mortality and standard of living rates to income equality and other economic indicators so, in summation, dad, you're damned right I would want to live in Finland!"

reincarnation. I've already decided that in my next life I hope I get to be born in Finland, and remain a citizen there.

the proceeds of this monumental rip off are going and to whom.

As usual Bill Moyers brings it home in style.

Pretty much taxes are for military expenditures, the security state, redistributing wealth to the top and to the corporations, and a few pennies for the poorest of the poor that is woefully inadequate to the point of seeming ineffective despite the reality of doing a lot with very little.

Bridges are falling down, potholes are plentiful, some folks have brownouts and rolling blackouts, there are ever increasing tolls, and it goes on and on in full view.

You add the right wing drumbeat and hate media propping up the wealthy and it leaves little choice to feel that way, regardless of politics because we actually do get very little for our investment and it is made to feel worse by the media who also helps the right wing by painting a bogus picture of what is spent and how. This false image is then magnified by the ongoing and open buffoonery of our elected officials. Who trusts these idiots? No one. It is no large leap that the works are being screwed and waste, fraud, and abuse are commonplace.

...not just rates but the way it was distributed.

In 1955 there were 24 tax brackets. Adjusting for inflation:

16 of them affected incomes over $250,000.

11 of those affected incomes over $500,000

The top rate kicked in for income a bit over $3.5 million/year.

From Reagan to relatively recently there were no brackets that kicked in over $400,000, and now only one does. And the rates on the upper brackets are a fraction of what they used to be. All progressivity on very high incomes was eliminated three decades ago and hasn't come back.

A large number of Americans are unhappy with their lives.

They dislike their jobs (if they are fortunate to have a job), feel unappreciated, inadequately paid, worried about the future, and feel unable to do anything about it.

They grasp at any argument that tells them that it is not their fault, that they are victims, and that if life were only fair, they would be wealthy, healthy, and wise.

They don't dare criticize their employers, their bankers, or their health insurers, for fear of retaliation.

So they blame "government" for not making things "right". They are fed propaganda over and over again that government takes their money, in the form of taxes, and gives it to lazy people, illegal immigrants, and "moochers" who lead better lifestyles than they do.

They are told that the "private" sector is more "efficient" (another meaningless buzz word like "free trade&quot even though the "private", corporate sector extracts a greater financial burden on them in the form of high prices, huge profits, and low wages.

This corporate levied financial burden is equivalent to a high TAX, but in contrast to countries with high government taxes, which also provide low cost universal health care, low cost or free education, and are not taxing their people to support a huge military system, people in those other countries enjoy a widespread quality of lifestyle not attained by most Americans.

So, for what they pay overall, Americans are getting less for what they spend than in other "advanced" countries.

Politicians, corporate vultures, and religious zealots have supported right wing think tanks and right wing media to develop and spread concepts that play on people's fears and dissatisfaction. These concepts (or "memes&quot are repeated ad nauseam on talk radio, in newspapers and magazines, in political ads, on TV "news" shows, and by politicians.

These right wing concepts (such as government is "bad", corporations (i.e., the so-called, mislabelled "private sector&quot is "good&quot is repeated so often so many places that no amount of reality will cure these victims of their misconceptions. The right wing has effectively immunized a majority of their followers from the truth.

Those thoroughly infected with the right wing themes are at this stage of their infection most likely incurable.

However, there are a number of people who are agreeable to change their political positions once the right wing menace threatens them in some way.

The secret of converting "moderates" away from right wing propaganda so as to embrace reality requires developing dialogue that relates the facts to moderates, but it has to be done in a non-threatening, and non-belittling way.

Moderates should learn from the methodology of the right wing. Their "think tanks" are mislabelled. There is little "thought" or reasoning behind their propaganda. It is all about marketing techniques.

Liberal "think tanks" should spend less time debating policy, and spend more time evaluating the effectiveness of presentation using focus groups.

While "liberals" attempt to explain their side with incomprehensible, and often irrelevant, graphs, charts, and economic verbiage, the right wing sells their policies with snappy advertisements like those used to sell fast food, breakfast cereal, cell phones, or prescription medicine.

While liberals appeal to reason to change minds, the right wing uses techniques that motivate people to action for their cause.

The real reason for the 2010 right wing wins was that they used tried and true marketing techniques to motivate voters to their cause and the Democrats...

Up until his presidency, Republicans and conservatives were cool with taxing the rich (see Eisenhower's 90% top tax rate). But he was the chief architect of the trickle-down scam that continues to plague the country today. He capitalized on resentment of middle-class and poor conservatives for everyone else, and used it to push an extremely regressive economic agenda.