F*ck the Cowboys. (grin)

"How many Redskins?"
"You go down there, General!" -- Little Big Man to General Custer

That said, I think the only way it will ever change is if keeping it loses Dan Snyder money.

"Redskins" represent the idealization of Native American warriors. If the Redskins had been located near Japan, it might have been samurai instead.

It wasn't so much to honor Native Americans as to suggest the same qualities in Redskins players as Native American warriors.

from what the team makes off its merchandising?

give a dime for that reason. No more than they should pay the thousands of Japanese who descend from the samurai class if they had chosen "Samurai".

Native Americans. It was just chosen to be associated with noble warriors.

The name is kept because it's their identity.

how is that not insulting?

The Redskins should hardly be required to abandon their identity and their brand. It's who they are, and there is clearly no intent to demean or otherwise insult Native Americans. The association is meant to be positive and always has been.

if you base it on how long they've had the logo then you are including the time when the team was openly racist against black people.

how does that justify a racist logo and name?

Excluding black players is clearly a racist action. Just calling yourself the "Redskins" isn't racist, in my opinion.

how does that work? is that guy more important than any other Native American?



also, how does linking to a post of yours denigrate you? are you ashamed of that post, did you apologize for it?

sure seemed like you were proud of the post since you kept justifying it. why would you be offended that i linked to your own words?

Should Coca-Cola rename itself due to association with drugs? It was after all filled with coca leaf product, its namesake, the stimulant in cocaine.

No, I don't think a product should have to rename itself if someone is offended.

there are countless other representatives, Native Americans, groups that think the opposite.

what about him makes him more important than the overwhelming number of opinions of Native Americans to the contrary?

also, are you saying that cocaine would be offended by the Coca Cola name?

I would like to see a poll on that.

The only poll I found on it of Native Americans showed 90% were not offended, and 9% were.

but to disprove it, you need a poll of all Native Americans?

like I said, what makes him so important to you?

because you said one man doesn't constitute majority opinion. Well, 90% does constitute majority opinion.

Americans in general aren't offended by the name (90%, google if you want to read it), and Native Americans by 90% aren't offended. This push to change the Redskins' name looks to represent only a small minority, and not even the Native Americans support it.

Based on that, it's obvious why the Redskins aren't changing their name. Really, they shouldn't.

and one person's opinion certainly trumps the idea that it is absolutely offensive.

From what I've seen the push to change the name seems to be led in large part by groups other than actual Native Americans.


But with that being said, as a fan of the team I'm definitely not opposed to changing it.



You could make the argument that if one person's offended that's enough....

advocates for a name change of 'Redskins'. They have also led protests in the past.

http://www.ncai.org/news/articles/2013/01/11/ncai-statement-on-washington-dc-mayor-gray-s-position-on-washington-nfl-football-team-name-change

I don't know the particulars of every survey but they tend to focus on the 48-states while Alaska has over 2/5ths of federally recognized tribes.

That isn't to say it would give in favor of a name-change a majority, my main point is there are Native American organizations in favor of name-changes.

Apologies if I indicated otherwise.

Its not like Chief Wahoo (Indians logo) is the Redskins' logo. That one is a red-faced Indian.

I think these logos and names are offensive, money or not.

But the people that claim it honors Native Americans can't explain why if it's such an honor, no money is going along with the honor.

derogatoryor offensive. But times have changed. We tend not to use racially loaded names to describe thing, whether they are teams, streets, cars etc. If the intent is to honor the bravery and fierce determination of the Native American warriors, then a more fitting tribute would be the Washington Warriors.

San Francisco had named its football team "The San Francisco Chinks", you would have answered the same way.

You know, like "darkies." Or "the yellow menace." it says so right there on the tin - "Redskins"

Even if it were what you say - and I stress, it's not - it's cultural appropriation, a depiction of a part of Indian history and culture defined solely by the ideas and fantasies of the people who disenfranchised and warred against them. it also clings to an old cultural perception of the Indian as warlike and savage.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

How many Amerindians does it require to validate or invalidate something as an insult?

There's no set answer, of course. We just need to go with the amorphous 'prevailing opinion'. If there's a good chance it dishonors someone, change the name, no bid deal from my standpoint.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

Not to mention the Fightin' Whities.

Offensive stereotypes are offensive stereotypes.

as well as Seminoles and many other names such as Trojans, Vikings, etc.

I'm not sure why Notre Dame stayed the same but they allowed schools like Florida State to keep the name due to local tribal support. I think the reason why schools are allowed to keep Trojans or Aztecs is because there are no Trojans or Aztecs around to ask if they're offended by the name.

If you're referring to the Northern Colorado intramural basketball team, that name was created to protest the Native American team names.

There are a few common themes:

Fighters: Warriors, Redskins, Chiefs, Pirates, Raiders, Buccaneers

Mean Animals: Lions, Broncos, Bears

Region-related: 49ers, Packers, Steelers

If Nevada had a team called the Gamblers, it could be considered regional despite the presence of Gambling in other states.

the the 49'ers, Packers and Steelers were region related.

OK, Steelers I get because the overwhelming majority of steel production in the days when the team changed its name was within a few hundred miles of Pittsburgh, not to mention Pittsburgh and the immediate area had a HUGE steel industry.

The 49'ers...well...OK, as it was a term given to (mostly) men who migrated to California for the gold rush in 1849.

But the meat packing industry is not unique to northern Wisconsin nor is it even to the upper midwest.

The REAL reason the Packers have that name is because Curly Lambeau solicited funds for uniforms from his employer, the Indian Packing Company.

It could have just as easily been the Des Moines Packers or the Chicago Packers.

I just found that statement curious, that's all.

I didn't imply that no one else had packing houses. In fact, I think there are some other Packer sports teams around, too.

you know, the nice kind, that don't shoot or kill or anything?

Or the Fightin' UN Peackeepers...

doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

soldiers of other races were not scary nor brave?

And there are, of course, professional sports teams with soldier or fighter-themed names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_teams_in_the_United_States_and_Canada

Soccer teams: Lancers, Silver Knights

Basketball teams: 76ers, Cavaliers, Warriors

Football teams: Patriots, Raiders, Vikings, Buccaneers

Hockey teams: Pirates, Admirals, Road Warriors, Gladiators, Rangers

Baseball teams: Pirates

And don't bother to harass me with any more puerile, insulting PMs. I've blocked you.

It's not really even close.

Bryant

I'm not a Native American, so I'm thinking my opinion means squat.

It's not rocket science.

still, I don't believe that a team name that invokes the color of the skin, that isn't made up by that group to begin with, should be anyone's name. do they play the Paleskins, as has been said? I don't think so...



http://www.zazzle.com/shutdown_the_gop_by_voting_in_2014_government-128195183613839642?rf=238107662556833486

But "Redskins"? Nope.

I don't care if back in the 1930s it was intended as an homage to a Native American player....in the 2010s it's just woefully outdated and embarrassing.

Then again, "woefully outdated and embarrassing" is a fitting description for the Washington Redskins over the past two decades, so maybe they ought to keep it as a truth in advertising deal.

and Native Americans consider it an insult so it is. I remember a few years back a native basketball team called themselves the "Fightin' Whiteys" as a protest. I just found this article about it and it is pretty good:

http://newspaperrock.bluecorncomics.com/2012/03/satirizing-redskins-with-whiteskins.html

Wow!

I'm sticking with my theory that it's a fighting spirit/warrior kind of tribute thing.

was the biggest racist in the league who resisted signing black players until government officials threatened to pull the lease on the stadium if he continued. 1962 -- roughly 20 years after the first black players.

So it wouldn't surprise me.

. . .in the song "Hail to the Redskins". It's now "Fight for old DC"

Yeah, until the expansion of the NFL and the emergence of the AFL in the 1960s, the Washington franchise was the team of the South.

That's what racists do.

I never seen a liberal opinion from 1 of those 2 posters.

but the name might be.

I do not think the name or logo for the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux were racist but the NCAA thought so.

how much money did they donate from the proceeds of merchandising and their athletics to Native American people and/or causes?

if it's not disrespectful, but they are just using the likeness, making money off of it and not doing it for Native Americans, then what are they really doing?

you mean to say they are using another people's, another likeness to make themselves money? for their own reasons.

that's not disrespectful to you?

wow.

I am going to miss the hockey games between UND and the Gophers. I was even amused when the UND fans through frozen gophers onto the ice.

I suppose that UND could revert to their old nickname the "Flickertales" although I am sure they will not since that is just another species of gopher. (Not to mention the Gopher mascot for the University of Minnesota is actually a ground squirrel, not a gopher.)

You're in North Dakota, but your avatar is from a Nashville radio station?

the story at the link.

I am not currently in ND,and the radio station avatar is from when the station played rock in the '70s,its country now.

I thought you might have been a transplant.

which was the agreement from the settlement they would have been allowed to keep the nickname. I don't know if they did or didn't but the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education choose to go ahead and retire the nickname.

There is a reason why Florida State is still the Seminoles.

the Spirit Lake Tribe and the Standing Rock Tribe. The Spirit Lake Indians actively supported the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, even going to court. The Standing Rock Indians never took a vote. They were ambivalent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/fighting-sioux-name-contr_n_1596154.html

The North Dakota State Board of Higher Education finally took that action because the NCAA was going to basically shut down their athletic teams if they did not.

which leads me to wonder why the terms of the settlement in which the NCAA agreed to give NDSU 3 years to find agreement. Based on that, I wouldn't think the NCAA had any ground to oppose unless it was after the 3-year mark.

At any rate, I hate the NCAA so I wouldn't be surprised to see them being inconsistent on the issue. They're a monopsonistic cartel with an effective propaganda machine that convinced the vast majority of the public they're doing the right thing even with the hypocritical 1-year scholarships.

If you can tell, I'm not a fan of the NCAA.

Please don't insist that words must only have one meaning.

The intentions may have been and may still be good in some quarters.

Hanging onto the name in spite of the offense it clearly gives some is looking more and more malign every year.

Back then the franchise was the Boston Braves, and did marketing to tie in with the baseball franchise of the same name (baseball was the more lucrative sport back then, as difficult as that may be to imagine). (Trivia: that field is now a big largely unused field on Boston University's west campus.)

When the baseball team moved out of town, the football team moved to Fenway Park and wanted to tie in with the very popular Red Sox baseball team that played (and still plays) there. George Preston Marshall was a racist douchebag, but this really isn't a mystery at all: he chose the name because he could make more money if people associated the team with the Red Sox.

Marshall was a virulent racist. Dan Snyder doesn't seem to be (though he's a horrible team owner). But none of that matters. It's an offensive name, and the reason it was chosen is irrelevant. However, the NFL being what it is, the name is going to remain until such time as Snyder loses money because of it.

...

I now notice the same name over and over.

A pass vote is participating.

voting in them a long time ago. We can understand the opinions of those posting here by reading their posts. Much of the time the polls are actually more of a push poll.

Starting next week they will be known as the Maryland Redskins.

It's almost like a sports team calling itself the "Darkies" or the "Yellow Fever".

Oh, this was a discussion DECADES ago. Should the name of the town be changed too? If the town is named after a Native Tribe, and the schools names reflect that, what would do you call the school or their sports teams? The Sachem Fighting Irish?????? The Massapequa Storm Troopers????? I guess even the Shinnecock Golf Course will have to go too?

BTW, years ago the local tribes said they were fine with these town, school, and sports teams names.