If those who can manage it, an extra donation to a local food bank might help some of those affected by this. I've heard reports that they are getting many more people needing their help.

millions of dollars a revenue from tourism a day during October due to their neighboring parks being closed.

This is permanently lost revenue to these people. They will not get back pay. They will not get relief. They too can not pay their bills. There are many dire consequences to real people from this shutdown.

Thank you for posting this point. We all need to remember this.

The closure of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park during the federal shutdown cost the region $33 million in lost tourism, according to an analysis released Friday.

The study looked at visitor spending in 18 North Carolina and Tennessee counties surrounding the park during the first 10 days of October after the partial shutdown of the U.S. government.

<snip>

Morse estimated that the park’s closure has resulted in $12 million in lost wages for workers, $1.8 million in lost taxes in the two states and $1 million in lost local taxes.

But the biggest impact will be on mom-and-pop restaurants, shops and hotels, Morse said. “The effect has been on small businesses. Most tourism-related spending is in small businesses.”




http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10/11/3273301/mountain-tourism-hit-by-national.html

is a freshman Congressman from NC, I couldn't give two shits if NC mom and pop businesses are being hurt by this shutdown! Fuck them!

So every single person in NC voted for that freak? This is having an impact on mom and pop businesses all over the country.

those would be it. They are in either his district, Virginia Foxx's district, or Henry's district. All three have played a huge roll in this mess with Meadows and Foxx being the worst of the worst.

"I couldn't give two shits if NC mom and pop businesses are being hurt by this shutdown! Fuck them!"

So everyone in NC, including Democrats, deserve to lose their small businesses?

but the fact is I have pretty much zero sympathy for those business owners unless they can prove they voted against those three clowns.

This is one of those times.

I will shut down the government, and then they do exactly that, then no I have literally no sympathy for you when you have a problem with the shutdown.

of gerrymandering in NC--and yes, he is a tea party proponent. More North Carolinians voted for Dem than Repub congressional representatives in 2012, yet the delegation ended up
9 Repub 4 Dems when it previously had been 7 Dem 6 Repub.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



In late 2011, Meadows announced he was running for Congress in North Carolina's 11th congressional district, for the seat being vacated by Heath Shuler. The district had been significantly altered in redistricting. Notably, it lost most of Asheville to the 10th district, while picking up some heavily Republican territory in the foothills. The old 11th had a slight Republican lean, but the new 11th was on paper the most Republican district in the state.

He won the Republican primary runoff in July 2012,[1] and went on to face Democrat Hayden Rogers, Shuler's chief of staff, in the November election. During the campaign, Meadows spoke at the 2012 Republican National Convention in Tampa, Florida on August 28, 2012.[2] Meadows won the general election for the seat with approximately 57 percent of the vote,[3] and took office in January 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meadows_%28North_Carolina_politician%29

Thank you for your expression of support for our agenda. Your efforts to keep the lower classes eating each other are part of a wide effort to get the heat and pressure off of us. With your help and rhetoric, we will continue to make America a shitty place for anyone that's not us!


Regards,


The 1%

I voted to leave this comment (Jury voted 2-4 to leave) and said: "No explanation by the alerter - poster makes the assumption that mom & pop business owners voted Republican. Assumption is probably incorrect, but the antagonism toward the business owners is understandable in that context and therefore I'll vote to leave this comment for further discussion which could prove to be enlightening."

What a horrible thing to say. I can't believe some of the heartlessness I am seeing coming from supposed Dems here lately. No wonder so many good Progressive Dems have moved on from here.

I totally agree with you.

around the Grand Canyon, reporting losing $1,000,000+ per day!

Many friends out of work. The town is dead. The idiot Republicans robbed us and our many visitors of the wonderful sights and sounds of fall in the Rocky Mountains. Estes Park on the east side is recovering from devastating flooding and now, with shops struggling to stay open, the idiot Republicans (one of which represents (?) Estes) shut down funding.

We now have FIVE Horsemen of death: Fire, Flood, Famine, Pestilence and Republicans! No wonder they're so caught up in the apocalypse.

I have had to take several weeks of layoffs and got unemployment benefit. While shutdown is contrived event for political grandstanding. .its a short term event. Meanwhile my job and 1000s other jobs where I was working have now been permanently eliminated. I do have a beef for shutdown workers expecting to be paid for not working..thats why we have unemployment insurance.

You have no way of knowing that. Not everyone can use unemployment benefits to pay the mortgage, feed their kids, etc.

You are looking at things from a small perspective and not seeing the bigger picture.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

tiny tiny self absorbed lens.

Amazing.. how self-oriented some on a Democratic board can be.

outgrowths of a "contrived event of unnecessary political grandstanding?"
Even a day is too long - and how do you know it's a short term event? It's becoming a way of the politics of those who don't know how to govern.

Great empathy you have there.

(Sounds like my republican coworkers and family, whenever they want to minimize someone else's pain.)

It stinks of selfishness.

I am sorry for your suffering now and reluctantly await the disastrous consequences of the shutdown or debt limit threats on our economy , the people, and probably very soon, myself as well.
By the way, what are you doing to prevent this crap fpro hapening again.
Have you started screaming against the Gerrymandering that keeps the destructive Teapartiers in power? Have you decried the Boehner rule- not the Hastert rule but the Boehner riule he has passed on September 30, 2013 which allows him and the tea party to prevent the Senate Budget bill from being voted on in the House?
As Benjamin Franklin said we have given you a republic it is up to you to keep it!

the essence of internet acticivism ... we get to take a definitive stand; without having to suffer for that stand until we do?

congratulatory thread about personal courage on an anonymous internet board.

I hope that there is no compromise and no fig leaf not because it isn't painful but because it is so fucking painful I don't ever want to go through it again.

btw good to see you around.

on both points ... most of us can play the game, then hit the re-set button when the "plan" goes to hell ... AND, we all (well most of us) know that we're in a "pain now/more pain later" situation ... this is why the more sane of us aren't in politics ... because that way we do not have to make (and won't be held account to) the choice that must be made ... and it must be made.

This reminds me of a discussion I had while objecting to a "Make a Budget" exercise in a Public Policy course in grad-school. The majority of the class blew through the exercise with no problem (I did too); but I called B.S. to the Professor telling him that the exercise is about as valuable in an upper-level grad class as PS3's "Medal of Honor", is to the Pentagon!

He got pissed ... then invited me to join him for drinks.

(Oh yeah ... I haven't gone anywhere; just posting less cuz RL keeps interfering with my bubble.)

You want to do anything they ask just to get those gigs back? As a Union man who has been on some long strikes, I have to say I am happy your thinking did not prevail when we sought to improve our contracts.

Seems over the top to rip into others over such a thing.

It is not just ONE thread, it's in many many threads and many many posts. Open up your partisan eyes for once and consider the shutdown effects on real people. You've made your point clear: GOP is going DOWN, YAY TEAM! Fuck the people who are suffering because of it, as long as your football team is winning that's all that matters.

I'm outta here for awhile.

What I said is that as a Union man, I have been on strike many times and I know the costs and the value of the sacrifices made. I did not say 'yay team' nor did I call you names as you have called me 'Sparky'.
I asked you what you wanted and needed specifically. You still have not answered that direct question. If you are upset because folks are not doing what you think they should, you need to be able to specify what you think they should be doing.
Now go ahead and ascribe to me things I did not say and call me more degrading names because you deserve to act out.

No, I'm trying to point out to the partisans that, amid their glee of the GOP self-destructing, there are casualties. Jesus Christalmighty sometimes the weirdest fucking things come out of people's heads here at DU. Let me make it perfectly clear: NO, I DO NOT EXPECT OBAMA TO CAVE IN TO IDIOTIC TEAKLANNER DEMANDS. Got that there, Sparky or do you need a singing telegram to go along with that?

Fuck me, I swear I need to take a break from this place.

on long strikes in my own life and that I now sacrifice can win progress because of that.
You did not tell me what specifics you want from people as they remember the sacrifices being made, which is what I asked, but you did attack me personally for asking.
My first strike I was 18. The longest was months and those months destroyed the highest paying gig I ever had. So I asked YOU what you needed from us. In return you called me 'Sparky'.
One of my Unions on strike, DUers post how little they care:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7389319

let it go with that poster ... he/she gets whatever self-serving argument point out of your post ... whether you said it or not ... and then, just keeps pounding the strawman.

every few weeks or so, he/she will trying and slide a post in where he/she says, I said "Stonewall didn't matter", the latest iteration included claiming credit for inspiring President Obama's "Selma to Seneca Falls" speech!

Had that happen too. And only one issue counts, and he will bring it up in any thread, whether related or not.

"He/she rarely ...does ... Just states opinion as fact, and when challenged regurgitates previously discredited argument (as if they were brand new), attempts to changes the argument (usually to something having to do with gay rights)"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=318702

Here is me explaining it to you
"We've had several converstations in which you have been told I am male. And yet you pull this he/she shit. You claim to know all about me. Funny that you insist upon that gender based insult. Funny as in ironic. You claim to know all about me, but you can't recall that I'm male, after having been told in the past in similar circumstances? "
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=318718

I spend more time paying attention to "arguments" (or lack thereof), than the race, color, national origin, religion, gender, disability status, age, sexual orientation, or gender identity, of the poster.

And with that said ... I did not see the second post ... If I had, I would have used it as another example of your penchant for false argumentation. Where have I claimed to "know all about (you)?" ... if anything I have commented on you style of falsely reductive "argumentation."

I did not get that impression from what this DUer posted. I think it was maybe a simple reminder that people are hurting still. Nothing more nothing less. Could they just be venting their frustration, I have found this a good place to do that. Better to vent here as opposed to going postal.

Name calling when asked a question is cheap, the homophobic jabs are worse than that.

Sure you got the right post? There were no homophobic jabs?

and they ain't going away

At the national level is a good start, but I would like to see voters utterly disillusioned with them at all levels of government.

==========================

If it weren't so tragic, I think I'd be more in a celebratory mood over the GOP making asses of themselves. But between furloughed workers (especially contracted employees), the reduction in WIC and Head Start (both services that my parents used for me), lost revenue to towns and cities, etc., I cannot be happy about this at all.

And the idea that the GOP can be so cruel and selfish when in comes to others' livelihoods boggles my mind. I may not like certain individuals, but I would not wish to damage their livelihoods. That, to me, is sadistic.

It's not that I am happy that the pain and suffering is making the GOP look bad, but this may FINALLY wake up some of these "limited government" idiots to that fact that FDR's New Deal works and is the best thing that ever happened to this country!

The Republicans stubbornly refusing to end the shut down can be a way to "lift the vail" for some people to realize that the Tea Partiers are mostly corporate tools, who have been the chumps of Fox News and the Koch Brothers. It's like when the tornado hits the trailer park; not all, but some anti-government people, begin to see that the government can be helpful and effective and problem solving.

-Laelth

I understand and agree 100% with what you've written. It's sad this Republican Shutdown is hurting millions of people across the nation, but I guess this is what it takes to have almost half of those hit by it to finally wake up and acknowledge that government IS the solution and not the problem. Some people will only learn through the school of hard-knocks, and I hope they've learned from this Republican Shutdown and will vote the correct way in 2014 and 2016.

if you're old enough to remember, that after the '95 & '96 shutdowns and Bill Clinton's subsequent decisive re-election that same year, that was supposed to presage the end of the Republican Party. They were supposed to be so detested by all but a small sliver of the voting citizenry that it would herald a new permanent Democratic majority.

Didn't quite work out that way.

So, for those gleefully celebrating this shutdown thinking it will mean the end of the Republican Party once and for all, a little perspective is in order.

Unless you count Ted Cruz as a 'leader'. I don't.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

them now - when?

who still think they can tarnish President Obama's legacy by ruining the economy.

I don't know a single sane person who wants our country to fail, but there are plenty of mentally unstable angry old White men that do

:large

Punishing us proles for electing Obama is, at bottom, what this is really all about.

We are seeing a fascist faction gain control of a party. Their fascism is uniquely American, in that it elevates the religious right wing to form a coalition.

But it is fascist, no doubt about it.

One of the major ways that fascists gain support among more members of society is by economic catastrophe, which is what a default could well bring.

Obama cannot give in to this group - I can only hope that the plutocrats who have brought this monster into being can put it down before they do greater harm.

This is the "smaller government" they (or is it their masters) want.

Now everyone sees small government and its effects. Most Americans, including most Republicans, see the damage it will do to their lives. And the wealthy and powerful see that all they have to do is manipulate their toadies into twisting the democratic system out of shape and the system will carry out their will. What's still open? Some truly essential government services, but also the Capitol gym and, I suspect, anything that someone with enough money to bribe a congressman pushes for. What's closed? The programs the elite hate so much, like food assistance for the poor as well as programs to protect the consumer (food safety) and the citizen (EPA).

The ultra-wealthy are tasting blood now. This partial shutdown may win a lot of Republicans over to the Democratic side, but I fear it will also empower the powerful pushing for small government to find a way to make their vision happen.

We got a stop work order on my contract.

There will be no payment making me whole at any point in the foreseeable future.

I just hope I can scrape up rent next month.

Supporting my brother who isn't getting paid and happy to cover his bills. He said coworkers call him in tears.

People may think the furloughed staff are "lucky" to stay home, but their positions are in jeopardy when this thing ends. President Obama needs to keep spending at the same level or increase to protect a lot of positions. The cuts have lasting damage. He needs to keep up this fight.

You keep standing, the end of it is near. Too many rich people have a lot to lose if the poor get too upset and vote every Everyone responsible for this out of office.

All the best.

Whether those causing the shutdown get their way or not, there are very tragic consequences to pay. These consequences are their fault.

Thank you for posting it.

I'd rather have a default, with all the consequences mentioned, than give a tiny red cent to the fucking Republicans.

It's time to send the message that extortion will not be tolerated, even if that means blowing up the country. The GOP has made it clear that the only way we can send the message that we're serious is by playing a few rounds of Russian Roulette. I'm game.

I'd rather have war than surrender.

It won't be about "pain and suffering" anymore... it will be about loss of everything. And I thought that had already happened to me.

so not really sure why you went with this strawman. There are some who are angry and post in frustration "I hope they DO cross the debt ceiling line", but they are in the EXTREME minority from all the posts I've read the past two weeks.

and that is not a happy thought

and that has hurt the 99% for many years. we have nothing left to give these terrorists

negotiate. If we do, it will be harder the next time.

I truly hope it doesn't get to that.

While a part of me hopes this will wipe the GOP, the realistic part of my brain knows it won't. Americans have the attention span of mosquitos. This shutdown is, and will continue, to hurt a lot of people. Of course, giving in means this will just happen again anytime some law is passed that some extremists don't like. It is a big, hot mess no matter which way you go.

Don't worry, I'll be fine as I have some savings.

But there are lots of contractors of all types, and there are lots of support jobs affected too like suppliers, food service workers, custodians, truck drivers, security guards, local businesses, nonprofits, NGOs, etc. It's important to know that lot more folks are affected than one could possibly understand, in a lot more places than Washington, DC.

And many of these folks already make very little income and bills/rent got to be paid somehow. There are many towns where the local military or NASA or other government facility is the major economic driver.

And please remove any notions that contractors might be only for defense. I've ONLY worked with civil and health agencies in my career, never defense. AmeriCorps and USAID and the CDC and NIH have contract support. This affects a lot of normal middle class or lower class liberal democrats just like you. Contractors are like temp workers in many cases and may augment the staff at a client site for just one fiscal quarter and then have to find another assignment or get laid off.

Remember, if you are feeling the burning resentful need to punish someone, always punish powerful politicians, not working people just like you who have no power.

Thanks for the thread, Le Taz Hot.

I vote for our side to make them cave no matter what. The country is becoming unified about this. Will I suffer? Sure I am on Social Security but I say stand firm Mr. President no concessions to the terrorists.

any difference at all. I'm owning my delight at the self-destruction of these anti-American idiots. And I'm not going to feel bad about it. I'm not doing anything wrong.

I am employed by American Express... but I speak for me, not for American Express. American Express does not endorse my views and opinions. It is my experience though that when a natural disaster strikes, "natural disaster procedures" are invoked. The "Collections Department" are much more sympathetic, as is "Customer Service" (where I work). Things happen that wouldn't normally happen if the "natural disaster procedures" were not in play.

When I left work Friday, I heard that procedures were being put into place to help affected US Government employees. They sound similar to the "natural disaster procedures" that are used.

If the government shutdown lasts no longer than 4 weeks from now, I am presuming that it'll be OK for government employees who will get back pay - I think Amex knows that they will get paid in this case. I would expect that intermittent employees and government contractors will be treated with the shutdown in mind. If the shutdown is still in place come November 12th, well... I don't know what would happen with Government employees who are also Amex Card Members. I guess I'll find out then.

As far as I'm personally concerned, it'll be the debt limit that I'm concerned about. The debt limit will be felt by far more Americans than a government shutdown - it'll be a direct hit to everyone's finances. I predict that interest rates will rise for everyone (because I think the Fed would be forced to in order to be able to borrow more money), and that people will spend less money in general. If people aren't spending - especially the top 5% in my case - then I believe that there will be less need for people in Customer Service. I think that lower performing employees across the board would be on the chopping block. To me, I think it would feel like a 2008 all over again. I'd likely be fielding calls from very unhappy card members, unhappy that their interest rate was increased. I would be fielding less calls from card members who have a dispute over a charge on their account, as there will be less charges to dispute.

If the debt ceiling is reached and the US Treasury cannot find a way to ensure everyone is paid on time then I have a feeling that the USA will have a very rough ride, and its effects will be felt worldwide. A government shutdown will pale in comparison to the US defaulting on its bills - as bad as a government shutdown is.

I'm hoping that the shutdown ends soon, and cooler heads will prevail and sort out the debt limit. I think that the GOP's Cruz Control is malfunctioning, cannot be turned off, and is heading for some kind of crash. A crash like that happening sooner rather than later I believe will be more beneficial to everyone.

Thanks for reading, Mark.

I do hope the debt ceiling is raised and the budget (or CR) is agreed upon soon. This has gone on long enough. I also strongly favor paying ALL employee. I know some don't think that's fair, but it wasn't the employee's fault the government shutdown.

I am a business of one. I make tshirts and mugs and stuff like that. My sales have completely tanked since the govt shutdown. People are, it is obvious to me, NOT spending any money on unnecessary things. I can't make rent, and as a small businessperson, I am not eligible for unemployment or any kind of assistance. I still have student loans I can't pay. I can either pay my internet bill, to keep my business running, or I can turn on the heat. Not both.

It is frightening on a very personal level.

BUT I would rather starve in the streets -- and I may end up doing just that -- than give in to the GOP fucktards.

while all the issues that should matter have been sent to oblivion.

And that sucks, bigtime. But if this shit doesn't end here and now, when will it ever?

This battle should have been fought 4 years ago, but the capitulators and appeasers had their way. THIS is the price we all pay. Perhaps it's past time the Democratic Party stopped fellating the triangulating Turd Way sellouts started listening to us Dirty Hippies.

people seem to be under the impression that I think Obama should cave, if anyone recalls correctly, I'm the one who has been screaming about capitulation and the "Vichy Dems" for MANY years, a good part of it on DU.

My point was while a lot of people are looking at this purely from a political perspective and patting themselves on the back for their team's "win," millions are experiencing real, tangible suffering (the point about the mom-and-pops upthread is a good example) that is comparable to The Great Recession -- and this is just as many have started climbing out of the hole from same Great Recession. I can't even contemplate what it's going to be like if the U.S. defaults on the debt.

While I understand this showdown is, literally, a challenge to our 200+ year-old Democracy and we have no choice but to hold firm, I'm less understanding of the celebration many are enjoying as I don't see these events as particularly celebratory.

Yours Truly,
LTH, Dirty Fucking Hippie