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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou won't see Hillary Clinton in the same light ever again
Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:52 AM PDT
You won't see Hillary Clinton in the same light ever again
by BlankBeat
Read Meryl Streeps introduction of Hillary Clinton during the recent 2012 Women in the World conference:
Two years ago when Tina Brown and Diane von Furstenberg first envisioned this conference, they asked me to do a play, a reading, called the name of the play was called Seven. It was taken from transcripts, real testimony from real women activists around the world. I was the Irish one, and I had no idea that the real women would be sitting in the audience while we portrayed them. So I was doing a pretty ghastly Belfast accent. I was just I was imitating my friend Liam Neeson, really, and I sounded like a fellow. (Laughter). It was really bad.
So I was so mortified when Tina, at the end of the play, invited the real women to come up on stage and I found myself standing next to the great Inez McCormack. (Applause.) And I felt slight next to her, because Im an actress and she is the real deal. She has put her life on the line. Six of those seven women were with us in the theater that night. The seventh, Mukhtaran Bibi, couldnt come because she couldnt get out of Pakistan. You probably remember who she is. Shes the young woman who went to court because she was gang-raped by men in her village as punishment for a perceived slight to their honor by her little brother. All but one of the 14 men accused were acquitted, but Mukhtaran won the small settlement. She won $8,200, which she then used to start schools in her village. More money poured in from international donations when the men were set free. And as a result of her trial, the then president of Pakistan, General Musharraf, went on TV and said, If you want to be a millionaire, just get yourself raped.
But that night in the theater two years ago, the other six brave women came up on the stage. Anabella De Leon of Guatemala pointed to Hillary Clinton, who was sitting right in the front row, and said, I met her and my life changed. And all weekend long, women from all over the world said the same thing:
"Im alive because she came to my village, put her arm around me, and had a photograph taken together."
"Im alive because she went on our local TV and talked about my work, and now theyre afraid to kill me."
"Im alive because she came to my country and she talked to our leaders, because I heard her speak, because I read about her."
Im here today because of that, because of those stores. I didnt know about this. I never knew any of it. And I think everybody should know. This hidden history Hillary has, the story of her parallel agenda, the shadow diplomacy unheralded, uncelebrated careful, constant work on behalf of women and girls that she has always conducted alongside everything else a First Lady, a Senator, and now Secretary of State is obliged to do.
And it deserves to be amplified. This willingness to take it, to lead a revolution and revelation, beginning in Beijing in 1995, when she first raised her voice to say the words youve heard many times throughout this conference: Womens Rights Are Human Rights.
When Hillary Clinton stood up in Beijing to speak that truth, her hosts were not the only ones who didnt necessarily want to hear it. Some of her husbands advisors also were nervous about the speech, fearful of upsetting relations with China. But she faced down the opposition at home and abroad, and her words continue to hearten women around the world and have reverberated down the decades.
Shes just been busy working, doing it, making those words Womens Rights are Human Rights into something every leader in every country now knows is a linchpin of American policy. Its just so much more than a rhetorical triumph. Were talking about what happened in the real world, the institutional change that was a result of that stand she took.
Now we know that the higher the education and the involvement of women in a culture and economy, the more secure the nation. Its a metric we use throughout our foreign policy, and in fact, its at the core of our development policy. It is a big, important shift in thinking. Horrifying practices like female genital cutting were not at the top of the agenda because they were part of the culture and we didnt want to be accused of imposing our own cultural values.
But what Hillary Clinton has said over and over again is, A crime is a crime, and criminal behavior cannot be tolerated. Everywhere she goes, she meets with the head of state and she meets with the women leaders of grassroots organizations in each country. This goes automatically on her schedule. As youve seen, when she went to Burma our first government trip there in 40 years. She met with its dictator and then she met with Aung San Suu Kyi, the woman he kept under detention for 15 years, the leader of Burmas pro-democracy movement.
This isnt just symbolism. Its how you change the world. These are the words of Dr. Gao Yaojie of China: I will never forget our first meeting. She said I reminded her of her mother. And she noticed my small bound feet. I didnt need to explain too much, and she understood completely. I could tell how much she wanted to understand what I, an 80-something year old lady, went through in China the Cultural Revolution, uncovering the largest tainted blood scandal in China, house arrest, forced family separation. I talked about it like nothing and I joked about it, but she understood me as a person, a mother, a doctor. She knew what I really went through.
When Vera Stremkovskaya, a lawyer and human rights activist from Belarus met Hillary Clinton a few years ago, they took a photograph together. And she said to one of the Secretarys colleagues, I want that picture. And the colleague said, I will get you that picture as soon as possible. And Stremkovskaya said, I need that picture. And the colleague said, I promise you. And Stremkovskaya said, You dont understand. That picture will be my bullet-proof vest.
Never give up. Never, never, never, never, never give up. That is what Hillary Clinton embodies.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/18/1248523/-You-won-t-see-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-same-light-ever-again
cali
(114,904 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)It left me a little speechless. I wrote a couple of posts in response that I deleted due to swear words. But...I decided that the post speaks for itself...despite its intention.
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)It was her job in 2001 to say:
"I am the Senator from Ground Zero, and nobody is more concerned about terrorism than I. But I think we should wait just a cotton-pickin' minute and actual read this legislation, this USA PATRIOT Act, before we allow ourselves to be stampeded in a panic-stricken rush to degrade the rights of all Americans. We all took an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and I for one intend to adhere to that oath and to hope that we can aspire to continue as the land of the free and the home of the brave."
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Who responded with their lizard brain to 9/11, we'd have to fire them all.
Which might be a good thing, but is not exactly practicable.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Most of the Progressive Caucus STOOD against the Rush to WAR:
[font size=4 color=white]............................[/font][font size=4]The Democratic Party Honor Roll[/font]
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.
[font size=3]The Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq
(Iraq War Resolution)[/font]
United States Senate
In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :
Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)
Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
United States House of Representatives
Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:
Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)More in the metaphorical sense. Meaning the part of the brain that's responsible for naked political calculation.
Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)Her "Destiny" is still unfolding. I don't think she'll go on to be President, but I think that's more about her health, than her determination.
I think she could learn from her mistakes and move on to better represent. She's just no longer the best woman candidate we could have. I'd lean toward Elizabeth Warren myself.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)increasingly likely she runs, would prefer an alternate
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)to emerge who can make up the deficit between her and the rest of the field. Any folks who dont relish the prospect of her as the nominee will either deal when it happens or not.
tweeternik
(255 posts)were saying in 2006 about 2008.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)She got beat by a phenomenal candidate.
That's like saying every boxer could have knocked out George Foreman because Muhammad Ali did it.
tweeternik
(255 posts)I never said every or any politician could beat her. what if another "phenomenal candidate" were to emerge?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I don't see anyone who could run against Hillary, and we should by now. Back in 2004, we could already see that Senator Obama had what it took to run for the presidency and that he would be a formidable candidate in 2008. We don't have that now.
Demit
(11,238 posts)It was terrific, and I thought, "I'm looking at a future president" too. I did NOT expect it to be in the very next election, however. I would rather have observed what he did as a senator in the next few years. But these days we get all excited about one thing a politician does and immediately want to elevate them to president (cf. "Elizabeth Warren for President!" . I think we should see what they do over a somewhat longer haul.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I didn't expect Senator Obama to run for the presidency so quickly after being elected to the U.S. Senate, and that's why I had voted for Edwards in the primary who was the only one who openly apologized for his vote on the IWR. And I liked his "two Americas" speech.
Of course, I'm happy that he lost in the primaries and we dodged a bullet there. We would've been looking at four more years of Republican impeachment zest because of Rielle Hunter, and his loss of popularity among Americans and women because of how he treated his terminally ill wife.
So far, Senator Warren has been an excellent Liberal. She speaks to Liberals and working Americans, and she puts her money where her mouth is. But I believe it's too soon for her to run for president. And she's stated, very clearly, that she won't.
That said, a new survey has shown that America is in the center. 51% of Americans find themselves there. You can read about it here: http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/15/20960588-the-new-american-center-why-our-nation-isnt-as-divided-as-we-think?lite
Here is a link to the Esquire/NBC News survey: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53277240#intro
In summary, I don't believe someone as Liberal as Senator Warren could win in a presidential primary or the presidency, and it's important we put another Democrat in the WH after President Obama leaves the office. SCOTUS hangs in the balance.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)rather conservative ideas about a lot of things, I suspect.
On the one hand, her supporters brag about what a liberal Hillary is an how that is an advantage. And then those supporters tell us that Elizabeth Warren is too liberal to be elected.
Elizabeth Warren is liberal about defending the middle class against the abuses of Wall Street and the banks. That is actually not all that liberal. That is being true to the American ideals we all grew up with. That is being an American, a patriotic American.
Elizabeth Warren can explain complex issues and views in ways that make them clear to just about everyone. That is a great gift, and it makes her very electable. Elizabeth Warren has a warm, natural personality. She is pro-labor. Americans are tired of the unemployment and economic situation which is so difficult for the middle class. Hillary is pro H1-B visas and outsourcing. Those are unpopular stances. Elizabeth Warren is on the right side on so many issues.
Wall Street and the banks are paying virtually no interest right now. At least one bank is imposing horrible fees on small savings accounts. Our bank and Wall Street problems have not improved much, not from the point of view of the middle class. I think that we need Elizabeth Warren and her common senses. She will choose good, honest advisers with different points of view, I strongly suspect.
Hillary would come to the White House with a coterie of the standard experienced, but corrupt advisers. I would expect Elizabeth Warren to make an effort to pick truly qualified advisers, some experienced but honest. I think Elizabeth Warren is the breath of fresh air we need. She has very little experience in foreign policy. Hillary has a lot of that, but some of it may be perceived as detrimental to her. Her votes in support of the Iraq War and the Patriot Act among other things were a mistake, a big mistake. Republicans blame Clinton for not having taken care of Al Qaeda when he was president. I think that is unfair, but that is another issue that will taint Hillary's run.
So I strongly support Elizabeth Warren. She is not corrupt or at least not as corrupt as most of our politicians.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...standing next to the Democratic Party Leadership,
who look like Big Business, Chamber of Commerce Republicans from the 70s,
including Hillary.
Warren is simply a solid, mainstream, traditional DEMOCRAT.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)than that she will be honest and unbiased.
tweeternik
(255 posts)get the nomination in 2008!
I'm just saying it's 2013. The next presidential election is 3 years away. Who knows what's going to happen between now and then. Certainly Hillary has the inside track! She showed me a lot as Sect. of State. very impressed! But, maybe Hillary won't even run ... maybe.
As far as "who" .... Warren does come to mind; but, also Biden, Cuomo, O'Malley or Patrick are all "possible". Longshots, but possible.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She has been in politics too long. If she had a great, warm personality, she might have a chance. But when the Republicans release their files on Hillary, she will react with furor, and that in and of itself, will greatly limit her chance to win the presidency.
We need Elizabeth Warren precisely because she has common sense but has not served in Congress or run for office enough to have sold her soul to Wall Street. Hillary Clinton has sold her soul to Wall Street. That's the long and short of it. If you thought George Romney had problems. Hillary will have far more. It is wonderful that she has inspired women in developing countries. But she has also embroiled herself in outsourcing jobs, in supporting H1-B visas and has not stood up for American jobs and the middle class strongly enough.
I think Hillary has too much history.
DFW
(54,405 posts)First hand knowledge, believe me. However, she does not project it publicly very well.
I think Hillary would love to be president. However, I think she would hate to have to campaign for president again. It is a nasty, grueling process that seems to leave the victor ever more the winner of a Pyrrhic victory.
If she would win in 2016, she'd be 69 upon taking office. At age 60, Howard Dean said that younger blood needs to be doing this job. I'm guessing that at age 69, Hillary will reluctantly agree. If I'm dead wrong, then I think she will end up being the tired winner of a contest she'll wish she never fought.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)tweeternik
(255 posts)Love Obama ... just trying to say that it's a little early to be assuming anything 3 years prior to a presidential election. Hillary might "under perform" in the primaries for one reason or another. might not need an Ali or Obama to beat her.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There is no way for such a person to emerge and build a national presence and then build a national campaign.
tweeternik
(255 posts)the "no way" arguments. Strange world we live in.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)tweeternik
(255 posts)glad we got that one decided.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)but we don't need another DLCer in the White House if we can do better in the primaries.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)had given the keynote speech in the 2004 convention. And even then, he barely won and team Hillary made strategic mistakes they wont make again.
There is no Obama this time.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)okieinpain
(9,397 posts)A warm comfy womb for liberal ideas, that would get shot to pieces in the real world.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)that part of the "real world" needs to change.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)to brag about.
When you screw the rest of us with trade deals, unnecessary wars, and letting Wall Street do whatever the fuck they want no matter how many people or countries they harm, you are not a realist. You are an opportunistic sociopath.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)Obama seems like someone I would enjoy having a beer with and shooting the shit.
But I disagree with some of his policy and tactic choices.
This shutdown showdown was a welcome change on the latter.
The hater talking point assumes we are all children who only look at personalities and gossip, which come to think of it, is exactly what the MSM does.
If people here sound mad at Obama, it's about policy not the childish hater crap.
Show more respect for fellow DU era. And make your case on facts and policies.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)okieinpain
(9,397 posts)I keep seeing the same names over and over again. warren, sanders, can't remember the guys name from cleveland. but there are not that many that fit the mold of a true liberal out there and you have to admit that warren just barely got by that crazy nut in Massachusetts. doesn't sanders run as a independent, and the other guy and grayson couldn't get re-elected.
the liberal brand is tarnished and will not go over well in the general election anywhere. I would be more then happy to have a true liberal run for office, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)And if it gets down to a republican or a DLCer, we pick the lesser of two evils, no mater how little daylight they try to put to put between themselves and the rabid dog they're running Weagainst
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)but you, Obama and Hillary will need the "liberals" if you do not want another 2010 repeat.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)A few liberal ideas that didn't get shot to pieces: Medicaid. Medicare. Social Security. The GI bill. Food Stamps. TANF. LIHEAP. Disability. Low income housing. Public housing. Homeless shelters. The Affordable Care Act (not as liberal as many of us would like, but fairly liberal in it's application).
You're right in regards to DU providing a warm, comfy womb for liberal ideas. Our House of Representatives could be such a place. Our White House could. Why is it that conservative "ideas" seem to often need no time for real consideration before being shoved down our throats? Something to consider.
Yes. We do need a liberal. Unless you're comfortable with the continuing march towards fascism.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)shocked everyone was when california passed that anti-gay marriage law and it turned out it was blacks that put it over the top. lol, their is a large group of people in this country that are neither repug or dem in their thinking. they just kinda go with the person they like in front of the mike.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She is not likable. That's her problem. Bill was more than likable. That is the real reason he was elected.
Barack Obama is adorable. That is why he was elected.
Why was Reagan elected? People liked him.
Why was the First Bush elected? Because people liked him better than the other candidate.
Why was the First Bush not re-elected in 1992? Because the people liked Clinton better.
Hillary is not a likable person. She is that snippety girl in the second grade who knew all the answers, tattled and made trouble. She may not be that way at all, but that is how she comes across.
And she has a lot of bad karma from the Iraq War and her failure to stand up against torture.
That may not matter to conservatives, but it will matter to the base of Democrats who work to get out the vote. Unions don't have enough members to get out the votes by themselves. It is us liberal liberals who register voters and get our neighbors and friends out to vote. We stand on the street corners. We work the neighborhoods and make calls. Middle-of-the-road, wishy-washy "Democrats" don't do that. Hillary has to appeal to us if she wants to get elected.
Hillary's close relationships with Robert Rubin, Larry Summers and the other Friends of Bill will not work this time. There are many of us who are active in the Party and sick and tired of the pro-corporate anti-American stance.
In addition to having a difficult personality, Hillary's stances on a number of issues are unacceptable to ordinary Americans of all kinds.
Hillary is pro-special visas for guest workers who take the jobs that American college graduates need. That is not going to sell to the many graduates who can't get jobs that pay enough to help them meet their payments on their student loans. We get someone from India who paid relatively little for his degrees to come here and compete for low wages against an American graduate who needs a high wage to repay the loans for his education. Hillary supports the foreign employee over the American graduate.
Hillary has so many problems, you can hardly count them.
We need to draft Elizabeth Warren and now.
delrem
(9,688 posts)She speaks from both sides of her mouth with the gravitas of 100% conviction.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I'm going to highlight the weasely bits because I want people reading this to see how Hillary knowingly aided and abetted a war criminal (I will explain after the quotations):
...
If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?
So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.
...
If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.
If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.
...
I believe international support and legitimacy are crucial. After shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable. While the military outcome is not in doubt, should we put troops on the ground, there is still the matter of Saddam Hussein's biological and chemical weapons.
...
My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.
Pretty good, huh? She wanted the UN to get involved before Bush invaded but she was alarmed by unilateralism! Yet, she knew that passing the resolution enabled unilateralism! But the "present facts" made it "not a good option." Cute, eh? This, despite the Bush administrations run up to the war and demands to attack using old, obsolete, Gulf War era resolutions!
If, if, if! But she knew damn well that she was enabling a unilateral attack.
At the end she reveals herself (and thus invalidates her talk of diplomacy and assuring UN resolutions were upheld, and assuring that weapons inspectors were allowed to do their job):
Except, dear Hillary, Saddam destroyed those weapons in 1991:
delrem
(9,688 posts)Preemptive War is a piece of work, isn't it?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I hope to have her on my show at some point in the next few weeks and I will ask her point blank, but she was pretty solid on that point.
On edit: Here is the video, you can change that to ZERO wiggle room. She's not running.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)who could be persuaded to run.
We have had so many years of this corruption. If we elect Hillary, it will mean much more, and her presidency will end in disaster for liberals, for Democrats. She does not even realize how corrupt she is. More Monsanto. More Walmart (she served on the Walmart board for some years). More trade agreements. More utter corruption.
How do you move up from Arkansas to live in a beautiful home in a wealthy area of New York?
Because you give speeches to the well place and wealthy. You make deals. You tell the corrupt what they want to hear. That's how you do it.
No to Hillary. Had enough. She will be the corruption of the Obama administration but a very unpleasant personality along with it.
No. Never met Hillary, but that is my opinion. She will deny that she is corrupt. Because Wall Street corrupts politicians in a very subtle way that is painful for ordinary Americans but feels utterly painless to the politicians.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I will tell you what is great about that. As much as the demographics are changing, the GOP has the smallest chance left to win in 2016 outside of Hillary running. By 2024, that chance will be over. Democrats in 2024 will be able to nominate a ham sandwich and the ham sandwich would win.
In 2024, we can safely nominate someone like Grayson or Warren and they will win.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)It 's up to us to change the paradigm.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)fadedrose
(10,044 posts)And I love that man....
He is sort of like Harry Reid. Gentle, tough, persevering, nice-looking in a homey kind of way, and not a backstabber. He voted against the war. I could live with him as President, with Warren as VP. He is a real Democrat.
One heartening thing is that Letterman has used his pic twice in the last month. If Letterman would have him on and show how likable he is, it would help Durbin getting the attention he deserves.
He is not a camera hog, and even as majority whip, he's low key, easy on the nerves..seen him on talk shows, lets others talk. A nice guy.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I and many others who don't suffer from amnesia said at that time, her vote for Bush's Wars and other policies, disqualifies her for the presidency in the opinion of more than half this country. You don't get to make such a deadly mistake as that and then expect people to forget it.
I want someone in the WH who when tested, makes the RIGHT decision. She had a chance to do that, and failed. She did for political reasons and ironically it contributed in the end, to her loss.
That vote contributed to one of the worst crimes in the living memory of many Americans and people across the world.
I met Hillary, I liked her, then. I have never been more disappointed in anyone, and will never forget that day when I waited for HER to cast HER Vote AGAINST the Lying War Criminals' second war of aggression in just two years and set this country on a terrible course. And then I watched, in shock, as she tried to explain why she was voting WITH Bush.
It's time to move on from these old policies, failed policies, both economic and foreign. They are the past, she joined forces with one of the worst administrations ever and supported their egregious policies. That is too many mistakes, deadly for hundreds of thousands of innocent people, to make and expect people to forget.
Lots of people are doing great work for women, EVERY DAY, down in the trenches around the world. Some of my own family members are among them, they do not seek notoriety for what they do, but what they do is remarkable.
To say there is only ONE PERSON in this entire country that can run for the presidency is a sad statement indeed, IF it were true. Which it is not.
Keep not worrying, if that is your choice. It won't matter whether you do or not, but the winds of change are blowing and the DLC is history, and not very good history at all.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Rather than moaning about possibilities.
If we think Hillary is going to run and we don't want her to run then we need someone else to vote for.
It's really, really, really simple.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I would like FDR or JFK or Bill Clinton to run again. None of them can for obvious reasons.
As always, politics is the art of the possible. We just saw in the last few weeks what passion married to an inane strategy does for you.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)We don't need anyone who sat on the Walmart BOD, or helped negotiate the TTP.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Who else have you got?
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Corporate interests. You got a problem with that?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You can't make selections that aren't on the menu.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)tweeternik
(255 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)and I know Elizabeth is not running
any other suggestions?
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)A work of fiction in your mind?
cali
(114,904 posts)I see it though as a promotional piece meant to get people on board with Hillary as the inevitable nominee. I don't support her for President.
Simple as that.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)nominee?
cali
(114,904 posts)It all depends.
I certainly won't speak against her if she's our nominee. Not here or anywhere else.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)So that when you inevitably do start bashing the Democratic nominee in the general election, whoever it is (i.e. Hillary), I can point back to this. I'm sure you'll find a way to excuse yourself when you do, but at least others will know how you roll, and discount you appropriately.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
cali
(114,904 posts)you aren't reality based.
and people here do know me- better than they know you.
so bookmark away, dear.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)when she doesn't bash?
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)If she proves me wrong, I will both be pleasantly surprised and admit it.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
harun
(11,348 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)I have a litmus test of positions, mostly economic, that to me define a Democrat. If you don't meet the test, to my mind, you're not a Democrat. I won't support you, I won't vote for you, I will work against you to drum you out of the race and preferably out of politics so that in the future real Democrats can get elected.
I think more rank-and-file Democrats should hold an internally-consistent ideal-model in our elected officials and candidates of what it means to be an office-holding member of the Democratic party...versus to merely think you're a Democrat. We must become defiant and loud in voicing the words "You're not a Democrat." to candidates that don't meet those ideals. They don't get to decide they're Democrats nor to define what it means to be a Democrat, we as an electorate decide.
To me, Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat. She's a filthy centrist technocrat with center-right economics. I don't vote for filthy centrist technocrats with center-right economics.
The only decision from her I will ever support is the one to hang it up and retire into charitable work.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I will not.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3877981
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
We are NOT supposed to be bashing Democrats. I lost the part in the TOS that says that Hillary Clinton is an exception to this, but calling a Democrat NOT a Democrat is beyond the effing pale. Saying you will not vote for a Democrat is *also* against the rules. "To me, Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat. She's a filthy centrist technocrat with center-right economics. I don't vote for filthy centrist technocrats with center-right economics."
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Oct 18, 2013, 07:45 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Until we reach election season, it's OK on DU to criticize Democrats. We are NOT Free Republic, we DO allow alternative positions, and the member is kind of right about Hillary Clinton, she ain't that fucking great.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't see why someone can't say why they won't vote for a Democrat, they are expressing an opinion. They're not spouting TP talking points or otherwise trolling, just expressing an opinion about a Democratic candidate. Hillary isn't for everybody.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: What if Ted Cruz becomes a Democrat?
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)particularly telling.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I volunteered and later worked for his first campaign (I started out being for Edwards) specifically because I was from NY and Senator Clinton was my Senator...and I knew I didn't support her. Obama was a disappointment economically, I didn't return in 2012; I figured he didn't need my support or that of other economic liberals and I was right. The only reason he doesn't get my vitriol is because he's already elected...it does no good to rail against him when he's being a bad Democrat on economic issues now. We can't change his mind or push him left, he's not running for office ever again. If he'd had a primary challenge in 2012, I'd have worked that primary challenge.
Hillary I can still work to keep from being nominated...it's not irrational either to think that opposing her now will make her decide that maybe she doesn't want to do this, make it clear we're looking to make it even more brutal this time for her to run than it was in 2008.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)so to reason that you would not support not would you vote for her, when while you and I were working to elect Barack Obama, he had the same policy...
Umm....oooo---kay
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)remember in the primaries when it was talked about raising the cap on social security taxes? Most of the candidates, including Obama, agreed with that, but Hillary and the Pillsbury doughboy were quick to howl that increasing taxes on people with jobs making over $110,000 a year would be a tax increase on the MIDDLE class. In a country where 50% of TWO income households make less than $55,000 a year, Hillary and NOT Obama was claiming that ONE person making $110,000 a year was middle class.
Here's the debate video where Obama basically quoted my journal. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2618869
So back in 2007 and 2008 there was some HOPE that Obama would be better than Hillary. Hope that was quickly betrayed when Obama appointed his Clinton cabinet and then morphed from 'yes we can' into Captain Caveman.
But with Hillary there is NO hope that we will get better than the fucking DLC. None.
So I would prefer to take a chance on Dayton, Warren, O'Malley, etc. They too, will probably sell us out. Warren, after all, as Senator elect sat useless on the sidelines during the "fiscal cliff" debate.
But it is better to have some chance than NO chance.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The 2008 election campaign told the story.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She wasn't bad as SOS. She was not in the limelight. But look at her press conferences, her speeches. She is very intelligent, but she just does not communicate with an audience well. It's simply a fact.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)I am not cool with that, and I am not cool with calling her that either.
Are either of the two as far left as I'd like? Since they're center Dems, I'd say no. But "filthy (???) centrist technocrat (?) with center-right economics"? is a bit much, for ANY potential nominee.
Or president for that matter. Why do the right's work for them?
Erose999
(5,624 posts)seeks retribution on whistleblowers like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Bernie Sanders, the sponsor of a single payer bill, in 2009 said there were no more than TEN votes for single payer. Sixty were needed. It was not going to happen. As to renewing the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act was amended in 2007 and again under Obama. When it was first passed, Russ Feingold, the only Senator to vote against it, said he agreed with 85% of it. One question is how much of what troubled Feingold was amended in 2007 and in the next bill.
As to "retribution" that is a very odd word to use when the Justice Department or the military charges someone for breaking the law. There is no doubt that Chelsea Manning broke the law as a member of the military. I suspect that had she stopped with JUST releasing the footage that showed war crimes, there could have been a far better defense. Releasing every piece of raw state department information is not defensible.
As to Snowden, it looks like he purposely took the position he did to intentionally gain access to secrets and to share them. You may think this was heroic, but there is no doubt it broke the law.
pscot
(21,024 posts)And who the hell invited Billy Tauzin to the to the Whitehouse to cut a deal with big pharma?
karynnj
(59,504 posts)- only 4 months with 60 votes, They needed to find the best that they could do that would pass. If Bernie Sanders thinks it could get no more than 10 votes, how much time should have been spent in committee to look at the possibility?
pscot
(21,024 posts)So adding it would have taken no extra time. Obama took it off the table very early when he struck a deal with Tauzin.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)I wish they would have dealt with drug re-importation in a better way at the source. The reason the US price is higher is their monopoly power due to their patents. It is fair that they get patents, but it seems abusive that they charge so much more in the US that the product made here and shipped to Canada would be cheaper if it could then be sold here. It seems that the US customer os subsidizing the rest of the world by paying the research costs that others aren't.
As this is due to monopoly power why is the telephone model of a regulated monopoly not considered.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)about patent law. It's ironic that the country who hosts the development and the infrastructure that enables a company to do proper research and patent new drugs ends up being the country whose citizens pay the high price for the drugs due to the patent.
It should work the other way around, the host country should be able to buy the drugs at production cost plus a small mark-up, as is the case with generics, while other countries should have to pay the higher fee due to the foreign patent of the drug. That would help a lot, and it would provide an incentive for nations to host and support scientific research. This probably makes no sense when considering patent law works, I don't know, but it seems like a better system.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)a2liberal
(1,524 posts)That is really an excellent way of putting it. So many here would support him, because of the "my team" party-over-principle mentality that has consistently allowed the party to move to the right.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)but MAN!!! doesn't that say something?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)I've seen it said about less extreme policies that once were universally panned as right wing. Slippery slope is slippery.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Poster A is outraged that they are supposed to support someone who calls themselves a Democrat, yet in the poster's view doesn't generally support Democratic policies.
Poster B alerts on the post, claiming that it is required in the TOS to not bad-mouth Democrats.
In Poster B's world, we are apparently, in Jerry Seinfeld's words, rooting for laundry, for the name on the uniform worn by the players (he was talking about free-agency in sports, how you hate a player on the other team till he's on your team, or something like that, haven't seen it in awhile).
If Ted Cruz actually did want to change his official party affiliation to Democrat, I know of no ideological or policy-based mechanism that would stop him from doing so, without changing a single one of his positions.
That's a problematic area for an internet forum whose intent is to advocate for Democratic Party politicians. You can make a rule about supporting Democrats, but there is no rule whatsoever about what is a Democrat, it is purely a self-identification on the part of the politician, which may be sincere or may be opportunistic on their part.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)I agree with the sentiments of the post, but would never have used those words, not out of respect or love for Mrs. Clinton, but for her devoted supporters here in DU, many of whom I like and agree with in other areas....
chervilant
(8,267 posts)when the Pro-Obama Hillary-Bashers were perniciously derisive, and trenchant in their assault on those of us who supported Clinton over Obama, I stopped visiting DU. It was just too ugly.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Just read some of the comments. They are vile and nasty.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)It got very vicious around here and I just couldn't take it anymore. I hope that doesn't happen again in 2014, but it seems like we're heading that way. We're going to end up fractured just like the ReThug party if people don't cool it a little.
"Can't we all get along?"
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)And I WANT to win the presidency in 2016. Dems are so lucky to have such an experienced candidate. We'll never get a candidate that agrees with us 100%... except maybe Bernie Sanders and you know how that will turn out...just like Kucinich and McGovern. The majority are centrist (think Bill Clinton) and only centrists (Dems or Thugs) can win. I bet Bush or Christy will run...who will both get Indies plus ReThugs. Other than Clinton...who do you think could beat them? Why can't we coalesce around a possible winner instead of tearing her down and giving fodder to the ReThugs. I think we should be doing everything we can to help her.
Elizabeth said she wasn't running...so who else could beat Hillary. Besides, we NEED Elizabeth right where she is. Who could do a better job with the banks than Elizabeth?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)with pretty much everything you said. We need to have this fight, now, and we need to get a candidate to represent actual Democratic positions (not the DLC positions which are funded by military-industrial corporations) that help the lives of the average citizen rather than the rich and powerful. Coalescing around an inevitable, undefeatable third-way type such as Hillary without so much as a primary battle from the 99% side would be tragic, our party might win in that case but then it won't stand up for the average citizen. No thanks.
And the "we need Elizabeth right where she is" argument seems like a disingenuous attempt to prevent such a challenge. She could do more good as President than as 1 of 100 senators. Also plenty of Senators have kept their position while running for president, it isn't either-or.
I know you probably don't agree with any of this, that's fine, but coalescing around Hillary at this point is absolutely not the right thing for this party to do.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)in assuming I wouldn't agree. I don't! How can we debate a candidate when we don't even know who's running or what their stance is yet. I also hate the name calling of fellow democrats...they are centrists...not "The third way and DLC?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Did you not see that page the DLC put up when Obama was elected, "the new team", with Hillary's picture among them? The DLC has since ceased to exist under that name, don't know what they call themselves now. And they're not just centrists, they're corporatists, which has nothing to do with being in the "center" of anything.
I'm not going to wait to debate this issue, there was already a well-known poster on here telling us it's too late to have the debate, that Hillary is the one and there is not enough time to get the huge machine rolling for some other candidate that would be necessary to elect them. So no, both things cannot be true, and IMO it is exactly the time to start trying to line up an alternative to what the party will try to spoon-feed us.
Sorry you disagree, though you're certainly entitled to your opinion, peace.
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)the lack of reality based thinking here is a constant theme. Here a couple of thousand crazy ass souls have found each other and continually circle jerk to reassure them selves everybody thinks like they do.
In Reality, it's an internet BB , not real life.
But I love you all, you crazy mofos.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)Thank you for sharing, NYC_SKP.
No further comment.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)which keeps moving us to the right. And then you get the people who think someone with a D after their name can do no wrong and defend things they do even though they are more extreme than their predecessor and the what is considered the left of the spectrum ends up in the center. It just makes no sense and is extremely bad for our welfare.
But what I found out recently is a lot of people just want to feel good and happy rather than look at the reality of what's happening. A reality that they are enabling.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)If you are already saying that you won't vote for the Democratic nominee for president if it is Hillary Clinton then you are no Democrat in my book.
Democrats vote for Democrats. Thank god for blocking.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)He could do it (there is nothing stopping him), though he won't.
But with the Republican brand getting worse, we'll see more opportunists self-identifying as Dems without supporting the things we think of as Dem positions. Democrats vote for Democrats makes no sense in this context, unless you just don't care about positions at all.
I totally get that we all want to help our party stamp out Republican rule, but it's not that simple, Republicans can fight for power as Republicans or they can have an easier road to power in the more popular Democratic party. This happens, and will happen more and more as the Republican ship sinks lower in the water.
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Gotcha.
So quick question. Why are you here?
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Because I consider your handle to be an oxymoron.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Maybe you should remember that - especially any who proudly declares they're not voting for Democrats in the general.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)and vote for them. If it's a Dem I don't like I might check the polls to see if they need my vote. So no Dem fails because of my vote. It does energize the grass-roots more though if they have a good candidate.
I still think your handle is an oxymoron. I suppose you could be on the conservative side of most Democrats, which is necessary in a relative way for there to be people on each end. I woudn't think an actual conservative has any place in the Democratic Party, though, just my opinion.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)I'm quite sure my views are ones you'd hold your nose for, but they are quite Democratic. Likely, many of the Democratic candidates that you hate, hold them. And the reason they don't need your help getting elected is because Democrats like me vote for them.
- Strong on national defense and world defense. Don't start fights, but end them - especially against terrorists
- Recognizing the limits to well-connected governmental contracts (single payer?!? they can't even get a #&*$ website to work!)
- Believer in the 2nd Amendment, paired with mandatory weapon-safety training run by the states
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)from my point of view.
As the Republicans fall off of their flat earth, some of the more sane ones (you might be one of these people, or not, don't know enough about you, you may just be on the far-right of the Dem spectrum) need a new home, so they come to our party and advocate for policies such as these. Then being a Democrat doesn't mean a whole lot.
Democrats needing to vote for "Democrats" such as these, or having to support these "Democrats"on our website because they have self-identified with our party (maybe they are legit Dems, maybe they are taking shelter from the right-wing of the Republican party by running on our ticket), just doesn't hold up in these cases. It can help get a majority in one of the houses of Congress (good to have committee heads), but then it's a majority that won't show up on votes for Democratic issues such as gun regulation, social safety net, civil liberties, equitable income and wealth distribution, etc. And it greatly muddies the waters in the eyes of the electorate, what is a Democrat?
If you want to proceed, I'm curious where you stand on these other Dem issues? You prefer market-based solutions over government solutions? A murky area, some tasks seem better suited to one or the other (healthcare, for instance, is an example of a task that should be based on providing healthcare rather than on profit to a corporation), but it one of the dividing lines between the two major parties.
How about Social Security, Medicare, welfare?
No need for me to interrogate you here, my main concern is that we don't become the sane Republican party, with no party to advocate for Democratic policies.
Anyway, from what I know at this point I would say you are an actual conservative who lost your natural home in the Republican party and now wants to pull our party over to your comfort zone, that your handle, in the way you've used it, probably is an oxymoron, and that the reality-based community you think you represent is a fantasy. I'm not making a personal attack, I hope you find a good place to advocate for what you believe in, and I hope your side loses, since I am opposed (very much so) to the positions you listed above.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, not my intention, I passionately believe in these things and won't quietly allow Republicans to claim our party as their own. If I am wrong about where you stand let me know.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)in my opinion she has become a liberal republican. progressive on social issues and pre reagan centrist republican.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I don't think that it would be at all wise for the Democrats to nominate her.
She is extremely controversial. There are so many issues about her, some imaginary, some real. The thing about lies it is very hard to disprove them.
And then there is her personality. Meryl Streep has a great public persona. Hillary just does not. Meryl Streep is an actress who can seem very gracious whether she is seething inside or not.
Hillary is the see-through angerbot at times. She is not suited for the presidency.
Stories will emerge about her if she is nominated. She is another Edwards except her lack of electability is not about infidelity but about other personal failings that would mean disaster for the Democratic Party in 2012.
I know she has lots of money. Democrats, leaders in the Party, have tried to sell her to me with the argument that she is the only one with money. If she cares about the Democratic Party and Bill's legacy which is inextricably tied to it, she will offer that money and her help to a candidate who doesn't have her negative baggage and will be identified less with Wall Street and the banks.
The Occupy movement is still alive and well in people's hearts. I worked very hard for Obama -- countless hours in 2008 and 2012. I would not do that for Hillary even if she were the candidate. Obama is closely tied, bound down by Wall Street, but Hillary is its blood relation. Nope.
I will not support Hillary or any Wall Street candidate. No thanks. She is probably a very nice lady. But she doesn't come across that way in public. She seems cold and self-centered. Sorry. She is just not the politician Bill is and not the politician we need for our candidate in 2012.
And Republicans hate her even more than they do Obama. I don't think she would have an easy time of it in the White House if she did win.
What does she want to do for America. Lower wages by hiring people from India on special visas? Just what are her ties to India? There are a lot of questions to be answered about Hillary. I really hope she doesn't run.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)If not someone send me a P.M. and I will delete it.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/memo...
HILLARY CLINTON (D-PUNJAB)'S PERSONAL FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL TIES TO INDIA The Clintons have reaped significant financial rewards from their relationship with the Indian community, both in their personal finances and Hillary's campaign fundraising. Hillary Clinton, who is the co-chair of the Senate India Caucus, has drawn criticism from anti-offshoring groups for her vocal support of Indian business and unwillingness to protect American jobs. Bill Clinton has invested tens of thousands of dollars in an Indian bill payment company, while Hillary Clinton has taken tens of thousands from companies that outsource jobs to India. Workers who have been laid off in upstate New York might not think that her recent joke that she could be elected to the Senate seat in Punjab is that funny.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY PERSONAL HOLDINGS 2006: Bill Clinton Invested Tens of Thousands In An Indian Bill Payment Company. According to Hillary Clinton's personal financial disclosure form, as part his ownership of WJC Investments, LP LLC, Bill Clinton held between $15,001 and $50,000 worth of stock in Easy Bill Limited, an Indian company. According to the company's website, "Functioning as a one-stop bill payment shop, Easy Bill facilitates payment of utility bills as well as recharging of pre-paid mobile connections at a place the consumer is already familiar and comfortable with the neighbourhood store." In addition to providing terminals throughout India where customers may pay their bills, the company also maintains a call center described as "a dedicated response centre for efficient customer service." http://www.easybillindia.com />
2006: Bill Clinton Collected $300,000 From Cisco In 2006. Hillary's personal financial disclosure forms indicate that Bill Clinton gave two speeches to Cisco Systems, each for $150,000 on 5/18/06 and 8/17/06.
CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING Hillary Clinton Accepted Almost $60,000 In Contributions From Employees Of Cisco Systems, Which Laid Off American Workers to Hire Indian "Techies." Clinton's Presidential Exploratory Committee took $39,450 from Cisco employees during the first quarter of 2007. Cisco employees have also donated $18,900 to Clinton's Senate committee between 1999 and 2006. Forbes reported, in a feature called "A Tale of Two Cities" that Cisco was laying off $60,000-a-year "techies," while hiring new employees in Bangalore, India. "Cisco used only a few Infosys workers in Bangalore six years ago ; almost 300 contract staff, plus 550 full-fledged employees in its own Bangalore office." In 2006, Newsweek reported that "for Cisco, India is the new frontier, where it's investing $1.2 billion to build a gleaming R&D campus that will employ 3,000 people."
Clinton Donor, Sant Singh Chatwal, Cited Clinton's India Caucus Work Vowed To Raise $5 Million. In March 2007, the Economic Times wrote, " has roped in New York-based hotelier Sant Chatwal as co-chair of her recently formed presidential exploratory committee to run for the 2008 White House race. <
> He is also creating an organization called Indian Americans for Hillary 2008." In April 2007, Mangalorean reported that Indian Americans for Hillary 2008 (IAFH) had already raised $1 million and "aimed to raise at least five million dollars." A major fund raiser on June 24 hosted by Chatwal, the founder of IAFH; steel baron, Lakshmi Mittal, and businessman SP Hindujas, was expected to pull more than 1,000 guests. In June 2007, The New York Times reported that "two Indo-American receptions have a total of $450,000 in commitments." In the picture (right), Sen. Clinton speaks at a reception hosted to push forward the US-India nuclear deal while Sant Singh Chatwal listens carefully.
Chatwal Owed The City Of New York More Than $2 Million In Back Taxes, Fled Prosecution For Fraud But Was Arrested During Visit to India With Bill Clinton. Sant Singh Chatwal, who raised more $200,000 for Sen. Clinton in 2000, owed New York City $2.4 million in back property taxes. In addition, during a visit to India with Bill Clinton, in May 2001, Chatwal was arrested by authorities there and charged with defrauding the New York City branch of the Bank of India out of $9 million he borrowed in 1994. He posted bail, then fled India, boarding a flight to Vienna despite an attempt by authorities to detain him. .
FDIC Charged Chatwal With Obtaining Improper Loans. In a separate 1996 case, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. charged Chatwal with obtaining improper loans from the First New York Bank for Business, causing the bank to lose more than $25 million. Chatwal, who was a director of the bank, arranged more than $14 million in loans to himself and his businesses, often with no collateral, said the FDIC. He didn't repay the loans and the bank failed.
CLINTON AND THE SENATE INDIA CAUCUS Clinton Co-Founded The Senate India Caucus, A Project Of The U.S. India Political Action Committee. In 2004, Clinton co-founded and became the co-chair of the Senate India Caucus which was coordinated by the U.S. India Political Action Committee (USINPAC). Roll Call reported, "The goals of the caucus, which already has 31 members, include increasing trade with India and improving security against global terrorism." Sen. Clinton said, "It is imperative that the Unites States do everything possible to reach out to India. This Caucus is dedicated to expanding areas of agreement with India and engaging in a candid dialogue of differences."
CLINTON WINS "WEASEL AWARD" FOR COMMENTS ON INDIA 2005: Anti-Offshoring Advocacy Group Gave Sen. Clinton A "Weasel Award," Citing Pro-Outsourcing Comments Clinton Made In India. The Press Trust of India wrote, "An American anti-offshoring advocacy group has awarded its first Weasel Award of 2005' to Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton for her recent remarks supporting outsourcing. The Delaware-based IT Professionals Association of America (ITPAA) representing over 1,200 IT professionals nationwide, said on its Web site that it presented this award to business and political leaders that it believes betray the trust of the American people.' Scott Kirwin, founder of the organization claimed that people were tired of Democrats pretending they care about the problems facing average Americans. Senator Clinton's actions prove they clearly do not.' The ITPAA based its award on press reports of Hilary Clinton supporting outsourcing and assuring political and business leaders in India that the US would not attempt to save the jobs lost. Outsourcing will continue. There is no way to legislate against reality. We are not in favor of putting up fences.' Hillary had said on Feb 28 in India, according to a report by the Asia Times. Kirwin also cited her position as co-chair of the Friends of India Caucus' in the Senate, a group of senators that supports issues important to India, including outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas, as another reason behind the ITPAA's decision to give the award to the prospective Democrat presidential nominee."
2/05: On India Trip, Clinton Allayed India's Fears That Outsourcing Would End. The India Review wrote, "Senator Clinton allayed apprehensions in India that there would be a bar on outsourcing. There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she said.
Sen. Clinton (D-Punjab) Joked That She Was Senator From The Punjab Region In India. "At the fundraiser hosted by Dr Rajwant Singh at his Potomac, Maryland, home, and which raised nearly $50,000 for her re-election campaign, Clinton began by joking that, 'I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily,' after being introduced by Singh as the Senator not only from New York but also Punjab."
CLINTON CLAIMS OUTSOURCING "WORKS BOTH WAYS
IT ACTUALLY BROUGHT JOBS TO BUFFALO." Clinton Says "Outsourcing Does Work Both Ways." Crain's New York Business wrote, "Mrs. Clinton may be motivated by a desire to uphold the free trade legacy of the Clinton years. <
> In an appearance on CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight, she boasted about attracting 10 jobs to New York from India-based Tata Consulting. When Mr. Dobbs inquired if she had understood the degree to which Tata, which helps U.S. companies outsource, was stealing American jobs, Mrs. Clinton rejoined: They've actually brought jobs to Buffalo. Outsourcing does work both ways.'" In An Interview With Lou Dobbs, Senator Clinton Defended Her Support Of Tata Consulting, A Company That Brought Ten Jobs To Native Buffalo Residents But Destroyed Thousands Of Jobs Over The Years. Lou Dobbs asked Clinton, "Senator, a number of people pointed out to us, e-mailing us and calling us, saying, ask the senator about her helping Tata Consulting, a well-known outsourcer, open jobs -- and office in Buffalo, New York. I'm asking you, did you really understand the degree to which they were involved in outsourcing jobs when you were there?" Clinton replied, "Well, of course I know that they outsource jobs, that they've actually brought jobs to Buffalo. They've created 10 jobs in Buffalo and have told me and the Buffalo community that they intend to be a source of new jobs in the area, because, you know, outsourcing does work both ways." Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) Is Famous For Pioneering The Business Practice Of Off-shoring. The San Jose Mercury News wrote, "TCS, however, will go down in the annals of offshoring as the original high-tech body shop. Starting in the early 1990s, TCS blanketed the American landscape with legions of itinerant software programmers from India. <
> Tata pioneered an industry that eventually evolved into the dynamo of offshoring, or sending work to cheap labor markets overseas. <
> Tata's methods have not been popular among U.S. technology workers, however, who complain guest workers suppress local wages and offshoring takes good jobs overseas."
Tata's Buffalo, N.Y. Training Center Caters To The Needs Of The Company's 8,000 Employees In The United States, 80 Percent Of Whom Are Workers From India. India Abroad wrote, "At the Chrysalis Center TCS will host new employees in month-long training sessions to make them aware of the company's history and culture and to hone their core IT skills that will bridge existing knowledge with advanced skills necessary to work on innovative projects for customers." The center will also cater to the training needs of the more than 8,000 TCS employees across the US, 80 percent of whom are from India, according to Buffalo News. Gupta Said Democrats' Stand On Outsourcing Was Poll-Year Rhetoric. The Economic Times wrote, "Vinod Vin' Gupta <
> also believes that the Democratic Party's stand on outsourcing is more poll year rhetoric than any serious economic policy statement. We have to compete globally and US has to find the best product and services at the best cost. Tapping global resources will obviously make the US economy stronger,' says Gupta whose own company InfoUSA outsources both technology support and database work to vendors in India. Gupta, who has helped Hillary Clinton and Al Gore in fund-raising efforts for their campaigns, is now involved in fund raising efforts for Senator Kerry."
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I'm sure the Republicans have vetted the Clintons more than anyone would believe.
I sincerely do not think she can be elected.
I am a staunch Democrat. I hope she sees the light and does not run. We need an electable candidate. The Republicans are stark raving mad. We need a sensible, untainted Democrat with a loving personality, a gracious personality. I know Elizabeth Warren has not spent years in the Senate, but everyone knows that she has a sensible stance on economics and that she would stand tall for the middle class.
There will also be aspersions on Elizabeth Warren's past, etc. But she is a normal, sincere, likable person. She is also well educated, brilliant and would make perhaps the most articulate president ever. After all, she really did teach law full-time.
Elizabeth Warren is a woman with moral authority. That is what America needs, a president with a mix of common sense and moral authority.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I found it with a search, on old DU. I should have provided a link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3318701
If Elizabeth Warren were to run and become the first woman president I'd go nuts, too much win. Any indication that she is considering running? I don't think I've heard any.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)even though women the world over respect her and need her advocacy and her work for women and girls will continue no matter what.
I watched you go on and on and on trying to solicit empathy for the right wing female who took over the House the other night in her moment of political idiocy but for Hillary you got nothin'. So for you I now have zero respect.
cali
(114,904 posts)that's not "taking over" anything.
Amusing that you're trying to attack me for being to right wing when I usually get that I'm way too left.
As for you? Based on your posts, I've never had a shred of respect for your inanities. Your loss of respect for me doesn't exactly break my heart.
7962
(11,841 posts)Any comments deemed "out of line" by ANYONE makes you a right-winger! Or "Freeper", bagger, etc. Pick a pejorative term.
cali
(114,904 posts)I seem to be a lightening rod here and that's always been true.
12AngryBorneoWildmen
(536 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)nice of you to say so.
theKed
(1,235 posts)that this thread wasn't about 2016 from the start?
left is right
(1,665 posts)however, I do admire her work as a womens advocate. She has tried hard to advance the cause of justice for women everywhere. Also, she was a good SOS
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Now that you have explained your reasons for not wanting Hillary Clinton to be the candidate, I feel fully informed and understand completely.
cali
(114,904 posts)Her entanglement with corporate interests rises above virtually anyone in the party and she has a long history of it.
She supports virtually every U.S. foreign entanglement. She voted for the IWR.
What the hell is YOUR little problem with people not supporting her as the dem nominee?
do tell.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)all of your opinions about everything. I hate to tell you, but that's not the case.
However, I'll be quite happy if you just tell us who you do support for the 2016 nomination. Give us a name of someone for whom your enthusiastic support will be forthcoming.
Or don't. It doesn't really matter, cali.
cali
(114,904 posts)queries. duh.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'm still wondering who you would support as the Presidential candidate in 2016, even though there is an important election in 2014 that must be won before we can really discuss the presidency.
Are you for anyone, or just against candidates?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)upthread, that it's too late to oppose a Hillary nomination. I realize that wasn't from you, but on the one hand, we're supposed to wait until after the 2014 election, on the other hand we're told it's too late to build any serious momentum for an alternative. Can't be both ways. Personally I think now is the right time to advocate for alternatives. It will indeed be too late if we don't.
I'll throw out a name nobody has mentioned, he's 75 years young and he would do an excellent job: 2-time CA Governor Jerry Brown.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)I'd vote against whoever ends up her opponent. But I will not vote for Hillary. I STRONGLY believe we NEED more women in federal government - in the oval office even. But not this woman. You can dismiss me as readily as you like, but Hillary would have the same enchanting little voice in her ear that Obama has. The same little adviser that's gonna see to it that we have the TPP crammed into one end or the other of our collective digestive tracts. That and so much more to level the world playing field for the one percent.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)to the speech.
It is a 14 minute speech and you obviously didn't bother to listen to it as you posted a reply 3 minutes after it was posted.
There was nothing in the OP about nomination, just changing how you looked at her.
Streep's introduction of SOS Clinton and how her personal intervention saved women activists lives is deeply moving.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Thank you for your reasoned voice.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Cali absolutely HAS to inject negativity into fucking everything. OPs are for spreading doom and gloom and by gawd if someone posts an OP that ain't doom and gloom well, you can bet ol' Cali will step in straighten that shit right fucking out.
It really makes ya wonder doesn't it? What a dark, depressing world some DUers not only live in but seem to relish and long to add recruits to as well.
Julie
Demit
(11,238 posts)AND she is a centrist Democrat with longtime sympathies to business interests.
Does one of these facts make the other fact not true? Is mentioning the second fact "injecting negativity"?
What a sunny, dreamy world some DUers live in, and how resentful they are when anyone punctures their way in & brings some realism into it, thus harshing their mellow.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)This thread is about the positive she has done. There is a time and place to point out some of her more centrist and even in some cases rightward leaning actions, but I hardly think a thread about the positive she has done for women in dangerous situations is the right place for it, unless you just want to turn a positive into a negative.
Also, it is not like most Democrats here on DU do not know about her centrist to rightward leaning actions already. Most of us here know that. Repeating it for the trillionth time in another thread is just griping and complaining at this point. It serves no purpose unless you just want to shit all over a positive thread.
Some of us didn't know about the good works she has done in the cases listed in the OP though. She has literally saved the lives of women in extremely dangerous situations by her actions, as alluded to in the OP. Many of us can disagree with her centrist to rightward leaning policies, but still agree with her human rights policies and acknowledge that she has done some good in the world on that front.
Demit
(11,238 posts)And the topic of the OP? The premise was that you would change your mind about Hilary Clinton once you knew what she had done for women.
The clear implication of the original KOS piece was that people view her in a negative "light." That this information would persuade you to see her in a different light. That pretty much invites a counter argument: No, it doesn't, not necessarily. I mean, if the line on Hilary Clinton was that she was really horrible to women, it would. But nobody says or ever said that.
So what exactly is the author trying to persuade us away from?
Even if you think there should be some kind of rule on the appropriateness of negative comments in any given thread, the original author who wrote that piece was tacitly acknowledging that there are things about Hilary Clinton to be negative about. Mentioning what those things might be is entirely and totally on-topic and appropriate here.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)excerpt:
Shes pressed the case for U.S. business in Cambodia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia, and other countries in Chinas shadow. Shes also taken a leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade pact that would give U.S. companies a leg up on their Chinese competitors.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-10/hillary-clintons-business-legacy-at-the-state-department#p1
efhmc
(14,726 posts)Why does this post about a powerful woman helping other women make you go automatically into antiHillary campaign mode?
cali
(114,904 posts)yeah, I'm cynical about politics. shocking, isn't it?
efhmc
(14,726 posts)even if the person doing the good was Hillary.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)so it's reasonable to view it in the context of the 2016 election.
You just couldn't wait to post that?
Seriously?
First response had to be a thread crap?
Really?
In the future I would recommend a little common courtesy and allow one or two people to post a response. That little common courtesy would allow people like me who disagree with you in this instance see you in a little bit better light and possibly not even respond to you, just simply let it go as a mere disagreement and not a total thread crap.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)her love of dogs would be about nomination or campaigns or politics.
I'm pretty sure Mark Twain would agree.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)The fact is indisputable that the article was not about nomination or campaign or politics.
The context of the placement does not change the article.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)right?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)There are perfectly good reasons for it taking place, explained below. You have nothing. It's a long way before she would run, if she runs. You can't read her mind. You do not know. You have nothing.
But we all know that those people are thankful for what she has done.
We all know that when people are thankful, they tend to thank people.
You may not know, Bob, but women, especially, in this day and age and this world, need and benefit from consciousness raising and solidarity. Is that wrong?
bobduca
(1,763 posts)that this is a political event.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)You do know that saying a person has "vapors" is a sexist put down all too often applied to women because of Victorian era fainting.
You had ample opportunity to back up your assertions after I backed up mine, but instead you chose to fantasize some kind of personal flaw you imagine you see in me.
Beyond that you have nothing besides simple assertions.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)I know what the vapors are. And Heaven forfend that anyone would express any opposition to the inevitable democratic royal succession!
I'll vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, will that reduce your obvious existential pain and suffering?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)Like I wrote earlier, the OP was about women giving thanks to women.
It doesn't matter if you publicly proclaim you'll vote for one. You still willfully chose to use sexist language in a thread celebrating women.
I have no pain or suffering about my existence. You have nothing except slurs that you attempt to apply to someone who dares oppose you in a discussion. "Vapors" and now "existential pain".
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Did Hillary announce her candidacy and somehow I missed it?
yurbud
(39,405 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)not the smarmy, PR double talk like a politician or their flaks.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)How about Meryl Streep, she's a political flak too?
Or is the problem that this portrayal of Hillary does not fit your preconceptions so you refuse to believe it?
yurbud
(39,405 posts)aspirations.
TomClash
(11,344 posts)This was cross-posted from Kos in GD. On its face, the purpose of the post was to discuss. So you started a discussion by saying you don't want her to be the nominee. What's wrong with that?
Response to cali (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
cali
(114,904 posts)edited: why even bother.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)'Oh my stars and garters-- this has nothing to do with the elections, shucks!'.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I do agree with your post.
cali
(114,904 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Like pretending to stand for the 99 percent during election seasons.
Agony
(2,605 posts)Agony
bobduca
(1,763 posts)Those people are disingenuous.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)so much of "Hillary is the ONLY candidate and she will WIN!!!" propaganda that it's nigh unto impossible to mention her without someone saying, "No. Just no." You'd think someone would notice the diminishing returns...
Beacool
(30,250 posts)But be aware that, despite the hate that she encounters, she will continue to forge ahead. There are millions of us who will make sure that, if she chooses to run, this time around she will be victorious.
cali
(114,904 posts)and there are millions of us who don't want her as nominee. she was defeated before and she can be defeated again.
People can support her all they want. They do have to realize that not everyone will support her 100%, and that calling those people names further alienates them.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)will not likely make me walk on eggshells trying the 'be nice' if Hillary does run.
The precedent has been set on how we are allowed to treat a Democratic nominee and President - we will see if those who besmirched Obama at every chance they got (and who fully support Hillary) will like them yapkahs (apples).
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Obama gets raked over the coals regularly, I see no reason why Hillary shouldn't either.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I will be one of them even though I voted for Senator Obama instead of her in 2008 because of her vote on the IWR. It was a protest vote, actually.
That said, I believe she's learned a great deal since being SoS to President Obama, and I'm certain no one - without exception on either side - can beat her.
"Ready for Hillary" has already hired President Obama's two top strategists who were responsible for defeating her in 2008. There is NO WAY anyone can beat them, and we do need another Democrat in the WH for the coming eight years after President Obama leaves office in order to wait out Scalia and Kennedy (who are holding onto their seats for dear life) and replace these corporate lackeys with progressive justices in the same vein as Justice Bader-Ginsberg (who her husband chose) so we can undo CU.
Would I like a much more liberal candidate? Oh yeah. But whether I like it or not, the country is in the center, not Left or Right, but the center, and Hillary can easily garner the votes from centrist Independents and moderate Democrats and Republicans who ultimately decide who wins in our elections. It's a truism I have had to come to grips with.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Ask everyone you know whether they want Social Security cut.
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)Actually, the only reason I'd vote for her is I'd be more afraid of a Republican president than her.
She is too eager to use military force (remember Syria and how she backed the President and her vote for Iraq in 2003?). I have a lot of hard feelings over Iraq and I can't believe that everyone else is so quick to forget it ever even happened. She has plainly stated that she isn't sorry for her vote over approving that war.
I can't believe how anyone with a conscious isn't sorry for any level of support they have ever had for the war on Iraq. They are good people like I'd like to think that we are. Having been responsible for spilling blood and then not being the least bit sorry for it and then wanting more blood-letting (i.e Syria), to me, is unconscionable.
Sorry to all of the Hillary Clinton supporters. I just can't overlook that huge defect. Iraq is way to close and personal to me as it should be to everyone else.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but that doesn't mean I should come here and drop a turd in the punch bowl.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Don't bother. I'm pretty sure I now the answer.
cali
(114,904 posts)so very many things. really, it's quite extraordinary.
do a frickin' search, genius. No one supported Obama more than I did here in 2007 and 2008 and I supported him again in 2012. Nope, I don't support Hillary for the nomination. that you equate that with hate is both pathetic, disturbing and utterly predictable.
Now find the posts that indicate that I hate either of them. You can't.
ta ta, hon.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)But your endless stream of posts criticizing every single thing Obama has ever done speaks volumes. You rarely express support for ANY Democratic politicians or policies. You just post links to articles that criticize all things Democratic. And you have a special fondness for articles that show Dems or Dem policies in a negative light.
What's extraordinary is how you seem to have fooled so many for so long.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)This was definitely an interesting OP to read, though.
I stand with you, however, Cali. I don't want her as the nominee.
If she *is* the nominee, I'll bite my tongue and vote for her. Because what fucking choice do we have?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)Your post says a lot more about you than it does about Hillary Clinton.
drynberg
(1,648 posts)Weapons being used, in a country that allegedly used them within their boarders during a civil war that was not an international matter. Hilary's quick decision to "bomb 'em" is not what I think the USA needs as a quality of leadership. Our Empire has cost us way too much blood and treasure, we need to re-think this bully of the world mentality and become a true cooperator of the Earth. This latest bombing decision was a reminder of the Iraq vote she made in Congress that enabled W to blow up Trillions of $ and kill Millions of lives all for reasons that changed with the calendar...all for dubious true reasons, except lots of corporations made Billions.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)if she runs and wins the nomination there will be a lot of self-imploding accounts here
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... the perpetually disgruntled will still need a home.
7962
(11,841 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)What I have a problem with is the implied beyond reproach attitude. If she does win the nomination and the presidency, I would expect her to be dealt the same level of criticism Obama gets.
samsingh
(17,599 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)She hasn't even declared her candidacy, let alone become the nominee.
I'm waiting for the primary.
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Obama is super bipartisan, meet across the isle, be cordial.
Hillary is viewed by many as a shrew. Yes, even on DU. The contempt I've seen leveled at her is insane here.
One poster here is already indicating that if Hillary won she'd note Hillary's "more hawkish stance" on the drone wars. That will be the ultimate of ultimate flip flops (first against Primary Hillary, against Krugman, then for SoC Hillary, for Krugman, then against Nominated / President Hillary again!).
cali
(114,904 posts)if she's the nominee.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)If she's the Dem nominee, you pretty much have to.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)posed me if I feel like it.
Your questions? Nope. no dice, my dear friend.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It's possible those whose accounts will implode had no intention of voting, for instance.
But there will be blowouts.
BTW, you've been here long enough to know how to avoid a blowout. My comment wasn't directed at any long timer who knows the deal, knows how to be civilized, and generally avoids drunk posting.
Note: there's another possibility that the naysayers will just stop posting and not have a breakdown, either way the result is going to be amusing.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)Think DeMint, Heritage Foundation and Ted Cruz.
RC
(25,592 posts)That family. Just because they have a (D) by their name, does not make them actual Liberal/Progressive Democrats. And that is what we need in both the Congress and the Presidency. We have too many conservative Democrats now. If we had more Liberals, the tea-party would not have been able to hold this country hostage the way they did.
Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel
(3,273 posts)PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)but Hillary also has ties to the Ultra Right-Wing Evangelicals that sponsored Cruz.
RC
(25,592 posts)PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)More reasons to vote for real Liberals and Progressives and not just because they have the (D) by their name.
We need to move the Democratic party back to the other (Left) side of Center, so people like Hillary don't want to be members of the Democratic party anymore.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)Everyone has a chance of Redemption, but the Coup in Honduras convinced me that Hillary is not the kind of person I would want as POTUS. She could have nipped it in the bud by not giving her OK for it to proceed. It was undemocratic, illegal and Immoral.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)and they are what the poster was referring to by "the family", its the shadowy group behind the C street house.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)we'll get conservative polices minus the gay bashing and Bible banging.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)not many seem to know Hillary is part of that Dominionist group.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)or was that ' Arbeit Macht frei" ?
All depends who's at the Helm.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Everyone who has been lamenting drones, war and everything related will rally around Hillary even though her positions are more hawkish than Obama.
Watch this thread.
Maybe one of those "wake the fuck up" threads is in order.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)And the critics in this thread are, for the most part, also Obama critics.
waaaay more hawkish...
I would like to hear someone talk about the lives of Iraqi's women that she has changed with the IWR and her husband's killage of Iraqi's over two terms.
oiy. That needs a mudderfuckin' big rug to sweep under.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)But you're surely aware of that.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Is this an indication that all your assumptions are flawed?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)And totally "winning" by means of the ROFL icon = confirmation there's no actual reply. Yet you can't help yourself. It's fascinating, if on a teensie scale.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)The fact that she was supportive of Obama's desire to involve ourselves in Syria and that she voted for the War on Iraq in 2003 and plainly stated that she isn't the least bit sorry for that war is a huge problem for me.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)We should be so proud of her work. She advocates on the part of women throughout the world with little recognition and despite the ugly shortsighted snide groundless comments made be many who claim to be liberal.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)for the next three years is not going to help anyone but Teabaggers.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)JohnnyLib2
(11,212 posts)Thank you.
nolabear
(41,986 posts)There's not a person on earth who can accomplish anything like what she has without understanding the pragmatic nature of politics. Play the game? Yes. She does. And she plays it well, with power and determination, and the ability to get things done in a world in which nothing is simple. She'll surely have my vote.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)There was nothing in the article I didn't already know as I have known her and followed her work most of my adult life. Hopefully others will see her for what she has always been about. The poll at the end of article does not ask if you support her for President, it asks if it changes your view but I see the juvenile bashers have arrived... pitiful
Laelth
(32,017 posts)And it does alter my opinion of Ms. Clinton.
That said, if I believed her coattails would be long enough to get us 60+ Senators and control of the House in 2016, I'd jump on her bandwagon. I simply do not believe that her coattails would be that long in the U.S. It's clear, however, that she is respected by women around the globe ... perhaps not as much in the United States.
-Laelth
Walk away
(9,494 posts)DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)For many of us, he represents what's best about our party. If you dislike what's best about us so much, there's another party willing to embrace you with open arms. That would be the Republican Party ... just in case I wasn't entirely clear.
-Laelth
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)He has no heft, no gravitas.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)If I'm generous, I will assume you meant to say "outlier."
Even so, and as I have argued elsewhere, no matter whom we choose to nominate the other side is going to paint that person as "the most liberal so-and-so since Lenin." Even if we nominate a die-hard DLC'er, they will make this claim. If so, I think we might as well nominate a real liberal.
That's not to say that I think Dennis Kucinich is our best option, but he is a real liberal, and that's the kind of person I would prefer to nominate.
-Laelth
Walk away
(9,494 posts)at least he wasn't stupid enough to admit it in public.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I'm glad you posted that clip. I always appreciated Kucinich's reminder in his reply to that baiting question: that the U in UFO means unidentified.
See, unlike you, I think that's not stupid. Meeting Russert's obvious attempt to ridicule him with a common-sense answer is very far from stupid.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)of whether they would choose Dennis Kucinich as the next Democratic nominee for President.
That is actually the funniest thing I have ever read on DU. Let's try to imagine how long his coattails are! The entire republican party would laugh their asses off for a week and then go out and throw a victory party. Maybe he could pick up a few votes by running his buddy Ron Paul as his VP!
I actually am interested to hear about any candidate that can beat Chris Christie. It better be someone good because even "pure" DU Democrats post pro-Christie posts here.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
BluegrassStateBlues
(881 posts)Can't have that.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)That must account for the radical shift by Walmart away from rank exploitation of their workforce.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)up until he decided to do his string of presidential runs starting in 2004. He also voted with Republicans far too many times on the more important bills, claiming (and selling it to his devout followers) that he did this "out of principle". Individual principles on key bills that help all American people, great and small, don't matter when you're supposed to be part of the 538 in Congress. There is no "i" in Congress -something Kucinich just didn't understand. Or did he?
Demit
(11,238 posts)House Representatives aren't elected, at-large, by everyone in the country. They are sent by the voters in their district to, get this, "represent" them in Congress.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)If you want wear the mantle of quintessential Liberal, you stand for equality for all.
Dennis Kucinich did not - up until 2004 when he decided to run for the presidency. His flip-flop from anti-choice to pro-choice was clearly for political expediency, and because of it, he lost all respect in my eyes.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Right now, I'm pretty impressed with Elizabeth Warren. Feel free to tell me how she won't run and can't win if it makes you feel better. Personally, I hope she does run.
-Laelth
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I think I read somewhere that she has said that she isn't.
A woman president would be great, I was hoping for a strong, liberal woman like Warren. At least we know where she stands on issues.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)... the other side is going to paint that person as "the most liberal so-and-so since Lenin." Even if we nominate a die-hard DLC'er, they will make this claim. If so, I think we might as well nominate a real liberal.
-Laelth
Since they are going to scream, let's really give them something to scream about.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)For better or for worse, he has marginalized himself by running as an independent, and I think we need to choose a Democrat to head the Democratic ticket. Call me old-fashioned, if you must.
-Laelth
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)I'll just let you sit and wait for Elizabeth Warren to run.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)For the moment, however, I'll happily "Walk away" from this topic.
-Laelth
Greybnk48
(10,168 posts)most of which, as Meryl Streep points out, has been behind the scenes. This is what Rush Limbaugh calls a "Feminazi" (since the mid-90's).
grantcart
(53,061 posts)It is even more powerful listened to than read, which is rare.
You are right, I will not look at her the same ever again, regardless of what happens regarding the nomination. I suspect those that 'aren't buying it' didn't bother to listen to the speech (posting 'not buying it' to a 13 minute speech 4 minutes after you posted your OP).
People should take the time and listen to Streep's speech, even if they are against SOS Clinton as a presidential nominee.
I don't know how anyone can listen to the statements of women who explain how her personal intervention saved their lives and not change how they view her, even if they don't prefer her for the nomination unless they have a heart of stone.
bigtree
(85,998 posts). . . love the testaments about Hillary.
highplainsdem
(49,002 posts)blm
(113,065 posts)I think she should stick to that area and become even more effective.
The rest of her foreign policy actions and non-actions showed a very disengaged approach that she doesn't show when she focuses on international issues for women.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)and she should continue to do that. Fighting for the rights of women around the world is a very noble cause. You see people like Malala Yousafzai who are younger who are also taking up the same cause and that is encouraging.
The rest of my post is in response to other posts in the thread:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the OP, those of you who support her are just going to have to get use to the fact that some of us will not. There has been a constant drumbeat over the last six months (not even 90 days after Obama started his 2nd term) to make Hilary the next nominee. I think it premature to talk about that. We have an election next year that could tip the House in our favor and get us back some of the gubernatorial races we lost in 2010. These maybe low level compared to the president, but we need people in those offices who are ready to cooperate with a D president, not obstruct him or her.
People can sit there and blow it off with the usual, well it's just "Hilary Hate" or the semi-harassing "who else do you support?"
It's call a PRIMARY and it happens in 2016. There was no coronation in 2008 and there won't be in 2016.
Once the 2014 election is over I'd be happy to sit down and talk about candidates. I've even proposed coming up with a list on a state-by-state basis. It would be interesting to see what names come up once we've got 2014 behind us. I'd bet we could come up with at least a dozen strong names.
So while I am supportive and appreciative of the work she has done I'm not ready to be force into the you are with her or against her BS that some are selling.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I posted it because, until I read this article and saw the video, I was unaware JUST HOW MUCH Hillary has done for women around the world. She has made DIRECT IMPACTS on their lives. That's huge. Also, it is a beautiful speech by (my favorite actress) Meryl Streep.
I am a woman. To know that Hillary has been fighting the good fight on woman's rights is so encouraging.
Hillary is a dynamic and impressive woman. If she wins the democratic nomination, I would support her. But if Sanders wins the Independent nomination...well, that would be a problem, because that would most certainly split the democrats vote. Hmm.
I will say, I wasn't thinking of Hillary for President AT ALL when I posted this.
blm
(113,065 posts)in this area. Because we had been paying attention all along, it is also indisputable that she showed disengagement from many other serious issues in volatile regions that needed an engaged Sec of State.
Syria is a great example of that - she would not engage with Assad in any meaningful way that may have prevented the mental slide he took during Arab Spring.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)And those of us who didn't know just weren't paying attention.
Look, I posted this because I like Streep's speech. I like what she is saying about Hillary. I didn't know these stories before, and since I spend an exorbitant amount of time on political blogs, reading articles and watching videos, I find it hard to believe I don't know these stories because I am not informed.
I really have no comment about her SOS work or possible Presidential bid. I am a woman, and liked the speech. An now I'm even more informed.
blm
(113,065 posts)be paying attention to specific foreign policy moves being made or that went unmade because the mainstream media failed to give it the coverage.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)fredamae
(4,458 posts)for womens issues, there is no doubt that is totally real.
But a Single Issue does not make a sound argument for POTUS.
She's into the whole "New Dem Coalition/Third Way" Center Right Corporate crowd.
She supports war(s) for more than just defense of the US, Whats her position on the WoD's? What's her position on restoring Glass-Steagall?
What's her position on the TPP? Keystone XL? Renewable Energy? Medical Cannabis? How will she deal with Chained CPI? Medicare/Medicaid? What is her position on NSA/needlessly spying on Every persons communications? Would she change NAFTA/CAFTA? What about the Patriot Act? Drones? Environment?
So many more questions....are still unanswered.
We can no longer afford to settle. We can no longer afford to Not Vet candidates and be willing to not "rationalize" away the negatives in order to focus upon the gender and party affiliation.
Yes, we do want and need a Woman POTUS-but don't you also believe we need a "changing of the old guard"? That the woman WE choose must be the "correct" choice for All and not just the upper, upper mid class and wealthy elite?
As we speak, high level politicians rarely if Ever anymore, address concern, solutions for the poor/working poor. Only how programs we fund are going to be cut with No mention of going after tax reform, or raising the cap on SocSec, or Cutting Big Oil/Sugar/Ag Subsidies and many etcs...They only speak to the needs of the middle class, imo.
You are speaking mostly to the deaf and blind in this thread. Only the choir is paying attention.
This is what many here do not understand:
She's into the whole "New Dem Coalition/Third Way" Center Right Corporate crowd.
All some see is that (D) is not (R) and that is enough for them. They cannot see positions, actions, coalitions, only us vs them. They see what they view as positives, and ignore the rest. Sort of like the Left's version of the Tea-party, and just as dangerous.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)with themselves and stop the magical thinking about the very superficial talking points - Go Back to her early years-research her positions, listen to her speeches and then check all that against her votes while in offices and her service on various corp boards--all of it, the good, the bad--weigh Pro V Con after seeing the Whole picture, the Whole history--then they will become the Most valuable of all voters in the electorate: A Fully Informed Voter, and that seems a Rare breed these days, frankly.
RC
(25,592 posts)That (D) and Hillary being a woman is all they need to know to glorify her.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)they'll understand it is for Self, family and friends that the hard work must be done. Form a small group of family and close trusted frinds-one person who Isn't so busy with work/kids etc can do the research, meet-discuss what is found then decide.
RC
(25,592 posts)For the rest, watching Dancing with the Stars, the Amazing Race, or Wipeout is more important than being informed about things that affect them and their families. It is a game to them come election time, anyway. The stuff of office pools.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)programs --but yes, I get what you're saying. It may have to get a hellava Lot worse before folks understand to have productive "self governing system" one (and all) Must be engaged in it/be Part Of It or "eat what ya get" claim No rights to Bitching about how shitty things are-whether they vote or not.
Voting is the End of the Process--Thoroughly Vetting and making informed decisions come first. One cannot make effective the latter without first completing the former.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)This far out with nobody declaring their candidacy, I'm content to wait before supporting anyone.
2014 first, or 2016 won't mean shit.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)Upper middle class think they are in the club until the don't get the wink and nod to sell right before the bubble bursts.
Then they are shocked to find themselves in the soup kitchen line with the rest of us.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)Many folks "out here" tried to explain All that to them---That they'd be the "next $$$ target" after they roll thru the rest of us....
I don't know if they're awake yet, however.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)You're assuming a lot! Why don't you wait to see what SHE has to say about all those issues before you attack? You're insinuating she's going to be for every bad issue. Your questions will be answered in due time...have patience!
fredamae
(4,458 posts)projects the point that I No Longer make Any political assumptions.
Her record speaks for her, along with all other pols records...and yes-I seek answers to the list of Q's. That's what vetting is. As far as patience--isn't that part of the problem? We have historically and too often waited until we were past the point of no return, imo.
SamYeager
(309 posts)She is my first choice for a nominee.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)The attempted character assassination of Hillary Clinton is following the same pattern back to Hubert Humphrey. It is just another tool in the right wing kit bag to stop progressive candidates. The only way we can not win in 2016 is for the liberals to be fooled by the right wing into attacking our own candidates. I had to laugh the other day when I saw on DU someone posted that they would prefer Al Gore to HRC running in 2016, because he was more progressive than she is. I remember all the so called liberals screaming about what a corporate hack Gore was in 2000. By failing to fully support Al Gore, the left gave the right wing cover for the theft of the 2000 election.
The attacks on HRC here seem a strange mix of right wing talking points, ignorance of the platform she ran on in 2008 and misogyny. We need to win elections. Perfect is the enemy of good. There is not one candidate that can successfully rise to the level of running for president that does not have some sort of issue that compromises their purity.
yourout
(7,531 posts)our candidate but she is a moderate through and through.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)I'm proud that she's an American.
For now, my first choice for 2016 is Elizabeth Warren.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Even if I were to forget the fact that she was a College Republican in her youth, it's a serious stretch to call Hillary a liberal. In fact, that's a stretch that I lack the mental flexibility to take. She's DLC through-and-through--better than a Republican, but only marginally.
Look, no matter whom we choose to nominate the other side is going to paint that person as "the most liberal so-and-so since Lenin." Even if we nominate a die-hard DLC'er, they will make this claim. As such, I think we might as well nominate a real liberal.
-Laelth
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)omg... if I hear that on DU one more time.
She is NOT a liberal. Being a liberal actually means something. It's something to be proud of imo. It degrades the meaning of the word, which is a RW tactic, by calling centrists like Hillary liberals.
Hillary Clinton's status as a liberal icon has always been based on leaps of logic, as opposed to her record.
...
But no one is going to confuse Hillary Clinton, who has cozied up to the conservative, corporation-funded Democratic Leadership Council, with a progressive reformer. She remains the conventional inside-the-Beltway pol who angrily shouted, "Russ, live in the real world," after U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., tried to explain why Democrats should embrace campaign finance reforms he had proposed.
Demit
(11,238 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)WCLinolVir
(951 posts)I would love Warren. I have seen how Hillary is willing to compromise. She is an insider. I have serious doubts about her willingness to fight against corporate interests and policies.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Amazing stories, loved the videos!
Thanks for posting!
Julie
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)I really did not see anything political in this post, other than advocating for the empowerment of women around the world.
What am I missing? What is wrong with lifting up a woman who advocates for so many other women... I thought that was a good thing.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)If the article had been about Warren, Pelosi or some other Democratic woman, the bashers wouldn't have had an issue with it.
toby jo
(1,269 posts)This is a great article, we should all listen to the recording.
For the record, there is nothing wrong with being a 'corporatist'. Incorporating your business is simply a way to
organize your structure of wealth and the way it moves in the economy. I own 2 small businesses, and plan on opening a third next year, a garden nursery. They are all incorporated. Don't demonize the term.
Large businesses have to have a way to organize. This is common sense. How would you do it? What if you had 2M to invest, or $20,000 to invest? Dems need to get over the 'corporation as evil' dynamic - it drags us down right where we need to improve. Hillary walks that line pretty well, in my book.
There's nothing wrong with learning a better and more effective fiscal language.
It's the greed that we need to focus on, the secretive buying of influence, things like that.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)and yet, when I read the anecdote about the Pakistani woman who was gang-raped, I'm wondering how different her treatment is from any of these several similar reports we've read in the last couple years, that take place in Texas, or Ohio, or Missouri? Where villagers there unconditionally support the boys, and literally run the female victims out of town.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)That said, I'm not thrilled about the idea of her being our nominee. She's just too moderate for me - and I really think we need someone who is rather more progressive. A fire-breathing liberal that will rock the foundations of our government and scare the crap out of the centrists who lean a little more right with every passing year.
Things are pretty well screwed up right now. I admire the way Obama has handled several issues, this recent government shutdown being chief among them - but I think we need someone with more passion, charisma... more, hmm, fire. Elizabeth Warren would be a good choice, but as it looks like she's probably not going to run... well, I'm hoping that someone with similar views and strengths will take up the torch.
I think of the great leaders I read about in history books - Lincoln, FDR, JFK, it is time for someone who can accomplish the sort of great changes they did. Kucinich would be a possibility if he hadn't been written off by the party elites and the money men. Bernie Sanders would be awesome too (if he'd run on the democratic ticket) or Grayson.
Obama has been pretty good, overall, but his lack of experience made things rather hellish for him from the very beginning. I honestly believe that, had he been more experienced or more prepared for the job, he would have been the President we have all been waiting for. Somewhere along the way though, I feel that he lost his momentum and his enthusiasm. That essential spark of leadership that makes the difference between a good President, and a great President.
If we want to energize the young voters again, if we want to get huge numbers of people out there to vote and fight passionately for the future - then we need a strong central figure to take the lead. I do not feel that Hillary could be that person, as she is simply too moderate, and in many ways, more conservative than Obama.
I'm waiting hopefully. I'll vote for Hillary if she's our nominee, but I really think it's time to change the hell out of Washington, and I don't think she is the person to do this.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Should she run, she would be defeated.
A new survey shows that Americans, by and large at 51%, are Centrists. Senator Warren would be too liberal to win the majority votes.
Its the most conventional wisdom in Washington, the unchallenged idea that America is a divided nation, a country ripped into red and blue factions in perpetual conflict. The government shutdown this fall would seem like only the latest evidence of this political civil war. But is the idea of two Americas even true? Not according to a new Esquire-NBC News survey.
At the center of national sentiment theres no longer a chasm but a common ground where a diverse and growing majority - 51 percent - is bound by a surprising set of shared ideas.
Just because Washington is polarized doesnt mean America is, says Robert Blizzard, a partner at Public Opinion Strategies, the lead pollster for Mitt Romney in 2012. His firm co-created the survey with the Benenson Strategy Group, pollsters for President Obama, and the result is a nation in eight distinct segments: two on the far right ("The Righteous Right" and "The Talk Radio Heads" , two on the far left ("The Bleeding Hearts" and "The Gospel Left" , and four in the middle that represent nothing less than a new American center ("Minivan Moderates," "The MBA Middle," "The Pick-up Populists, and "The #WhateverMan."
Now, survey could be totally wrong, even bought and paid for by multinational corporations to make Liberals believe something that isn't true, but then you need to ask yourself why we haven't been able to get someone as liberal as Senator Warren or as Teabaggerish as Santorum to win the primaries and the presidency. There can be some truth in this survey.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And I take a big issue with using a term such as "New American Center". I doubt anyone can really define what that is. It's just another label that they'll use to continue to divide us into teams.
There are many issues that an unify the left and right that a populist could run on. Leaving aside the barrge of hate that would be spewed at her coming from the media in the real world, I think if the message was on mark she would speak to a large number of R's as well when she speaks of our economic situation and a corrupt corporatism gone rampant. If politics weren't divided into two teams, people on the other side might actually hear the message and agree with most of it. The social issues the right likes to run on are disappearing. Sure they have made headway against abortion on a state by state basis, and that is truly horrible, but there really isn't much turning back the clock they can do on other civil rights issues that spark a real emotional response from them.
But most importantly, while it's fine to analyze, we shouldn't ever give up without trying. Howard Dean came out from almost nowhere. The media/TPTB made sure to get rid of him when he looked like he might take it.
There are a lot of obstacles, but I don't think one of them is the American people if you could only get rid of the corporate controlled obstacles.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)While I don't discount surveys completely, who funds them does need to be considered - and who is answering them must also be considered. Did anyone here, on a popular political forum of thousands, ever get a request to take this survey? I imagine that there are either few people who did, or no one here at all who did. Somehow these surveys never show up in my mailbox and no one ever calls to ask me. In twenty-nine years, twelve as an eligible voter, you'd think someone would have asked for my opinion by now...
We CAN get a liberal candidate up there, but the focus here is on the WE. When Obama was running for President, the passion, energy, and effort of young voters was amazing - I know this because I was a part of that, I was one of them. Generations of young voters who suddenly started thinking, "Yes we can!" And I'm proud to say... hey, yes we did!
So why is it that Obama got that much support? Why did so many people (even young people, who are often inclined not to give a damn) get out there and fight for him? He was passionate. He had goals that many of us agreed with enthusiastically. He was intelligent and well spoken. He wasn't perfect - and he did not appeal to many of the more radical liberals among us, but considering our other options, he was rather awesome.
Also, Obama had that spark I referred to in my above post. He told us we could do it - and he made us believe. I feel that that spark has been dimmed or extinguished in these last few years as a result of the intense political struggles during his Presidency. I believe that many of us dropped the ball after he was elected, with a "Let's wait and see..." attitude, instead of a, "Let's get out there and help!" attitude. When we dropped it, he dropped it.
It will take a lot of work, passion and dedication, and funding. But we CAN do it. If we can elect an African American President, frankly, I am of the opinion that we the people have the power to accomplish whatever we set out to.
The vast majority of Americans believe in very liberal ideas. Charity. Kindness. Generosity. Peace. Security. Honesty.
Consider that Howard Dean was popular even with a large number of republicans - it was his passion, his radicalism, yes, even his "Dean scream" that made him so.
If we unite behind one candidate who says, "Yes we can!" and then follow through, it is nothing short of miraculous what we can and will accomplish.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)DLC/Third Way/corporatists have used that dodge for decades now, while pushing an economic agenda that favors big business over labor, "free markets" over regulation, defense over safety nets, war over peace. Enough is enough.
I'd love to have a female President, but I won't vote for anyone just because she's a woman and/or good on women's issues. There's a bigger picture here.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Excellent clip, thanks. And let's play it for the President too....
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)And btw, I don't give a rat's rear end what anyone calls me for saying that.
Anyone who carps at me about it can wrap their ideological purity robes around them and go sit in a mud puddle in the rain. I'll be too busy working for an effective stateswoman to join you there.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...it is good to hear about this side of Hillary Clinton's efforts on behalf of women and girls over the years.
I still hope we find a more progressive nominee for President in 2016. But if it's Hillary, I will of course vote for her.
K&R
samsingh
(17,599 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)She does these things so well.
I hope she continues that work and leaves the presidency to more progressive candidates.
...
frylock
(34,825 posts)BluegrassStateBlues
(881 posts)It's going to be great to see her announced as the next President.
Especially considering the amount of vitriol the politically illiterate sling her way every single day.
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)Look forward to supporting the eventual nominee.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)For every election since 1980 I have been settling for the lesser of two evils. Or pulling, punching or touching the candidate because it is my duty. However I recently realized it is not my duty. I don't have to feel dirty anymore. I actually have a hope that one day the rest of America does the same. Wouldn't it be grand if they held an election and nobody showed up? Talk about voting your conscience and sending a message.
840high
(17,196 posts)Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)Also called Instant-Runoff Voting
You vote your first, second, and third choices.
You can vote your conscience on the first choice, and vote your "hold your nose" lesser evil on the last choice.
If your first choice doesn't win, your second choice kicks in. If your second choice doesn't win, your vote goes to the third choice.
You can have your cake and eat it too--make your protest vote without throwing it away on a loser.
It's a good system for democracy. Now if we could just get the entrenched corrupt politicians to quit opposing it.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)now never lets up about their criminal prosecution?
Or does she kick the Saudis in the nuts for their abuse of women's rights every time she sees or mentions them?
or does she tell Obama not to back women oppressing fundamentalist rebels trying to overthrow secular dictators who don't obey international banks and oil companies?
Courage is taking on the big dogs, not the poodles already on our shit list for other reasons.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)While what she did is a good thing, there's so much more she could do that wouldn't serve as such an easy photo op.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)broken up and neutered so they can't threaten us and the world any more?
ColumbusLib
(158 posts)Thanks SO much for posting this! Though I had an idea of what Hillary has done, this was eye-opening. What a huge difference she has made by championing women in these countries. And to think a picture with Hillary equates to a bullet-proof vest is mind-blowing! I want all of my students to read this.
William769
(55,147 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)How about some interviews with all those dead Iraqis for whom she, too, is responsible? Oh wait, they can't be interviewed!
The yeah-votes from Clinton and certain other leading Democrats were essential to rallying the nation behind the war of aggression just long enough to initiate it. That doesn't make them primary architects of this unpunished crime against humanity (like Cheney-Rumsfeld et al.) but their function in starting the war was at least as vital as that of the Bush regime's PR front personnel (Powell and Rice). Any "opposition" they developed after the carnage became self-perpetuating and the war turned unpopular doesn't count, sorry.
Can you name a war that the U.S. went on to wage that Hillary Clinton opposed before it started, when her opposition might actually have made a difference? Not even true of Vietnam, because when that got started she worked for Goldwater.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)to have miscarriages or deformed babies from salting the earth with depleted uranium.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)niyad
(113,336 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Not the ONLY thing.
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)............... I did not support Kerry in the 2004 primary or Hillary in 2008.
In October 2002 they voted for the Iraq War Resolution that gave GW Bush authority to invade Iraq.
It was either abysmal judgement, or agreement with the PNAC/neocon agenda -- both of which I find unacceptable in a president or any elected representative.
Nevertheless, I travelled to Cuyahoga County in Ohio to help get the vote out for Kerry in November 2004. What the Republicans have to offer is orders of magnitude more unacceptable than any potential Democratic nominee.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)And here is Rec #100
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)But I really wish she had said this A crime is a crime, and criminal behavior cannot be tolerated," when she voted for the War in Iraq.
I would like her to explain why she voted for that war. I will not accept the answer that she trusted the Bush administration and its lies. If she was qualified to be secretary of state, she was qualified to vet the intelligence for herself more carefully prior to the Iraq War.
And I would like to know where her outrage is at the criminal behavior of those Americans who oversaw or tolerated torture of prisoners in American custody, of those who mistreated Chelsea, then Bradley, Manning while in prison as well as those who set up and run the Guantanamo camps and some of our prisoner of war camps overseas?
Looks like she has hired Hollywood's best to help her manage her publicity campaign, but I want to know the real Hillary, and what I have seen in the past did not endear her to me.
I am delighted to know that she has hugged and had her photo taken with victims of gender discrimination.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)You must be jesting. Caroline never ran for anything in her life. The one time that she might have been given a Senate seat on a silver platter she flubbed it.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't do well under all the attacks that inevitably go with running for (and being) POTUS.
Here's someone else I like that probably isn't the exact right person, but I wish he'd consider it: Ron Reagan. I really don't know all of his positions, but I've seen him many many times on the tube and each time I am impressed. I also like the idea of running a liberal Reagan at the Republicans.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)We've already see idiot Conservatives claim he doesn't know what his own father was like.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Ron Jr. is actually one of the more human characters I have seen, probably what made his Dad so popular with so many who should have despised him. That's a quality that would translate well to a campaign, if he has any taste for it. I have no idea, just throwin' it out 'cause the thought has intrigued me for quite awhile, in several ways.
O didn't mean to slight Caroline, either, like her a lot. Seemed like she had a real hard time with the prelude to a Senate "campaign" (it was a campaign for an appointment, at that). She'd have to take a lot worse than that, though I don't know the back-story, maybe that wasn't the problem at all and she withdrew for other reasons.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....she walks in.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)her record is undeniable. She has been a champion of women's rights and as in 2008, she will have my support in 2016 should she decide to run. Is she perfect? Of course not, but no politician is.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)The praise that these women were lavishing on her were not just empty compliments directed at a famous woman. They really meant what they said. It is very sad and depressing to read the constant bashing and vile comments that one has to read at a Democratic site. There are some comments that would be more appropriate for the Daily Caller or Free Republic.
The Hillary I know is not the woman portrayed by some here. She's extremely bright, but she's also a great listener and compassionate. The real woman, not the caricature, resembles more the person described in Meryl's speech than the one described here by some. There are many stories that could be told, but they are deeds done in private, away from the media and not for political gain.
At times this site makes me very angry, right now it's just sadness that I feel.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)... aside from the OP, the thread itself has become toxic sludge.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)That she's a corporate shill.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)dollars, start from ground zero with name recognition (Warren isn't running), wither the competition with national and international experience, ace debates, who have had their dirty laundry vetted/cleaned, dried and hung up in the closet....and kick butt and take names.
As to this fixation on hating corporations...Big Business...Dirty Money...time to grow up. First of all, it takes money to be a real Democrat and do what we want to do in America. Let the Republicans have all the small business supporters they just left off at the Tea Party cleaners. It's just a whimsical dream that one can raise a billion dollars for a national campaign who hasn't declared and has no name recognition/national base. We will see them ultimately, but no one of the stature to believe they can win. Maybe to get a cabinet position, run for state office or whatever.
What is it about 21st Century reality that's missing here, other than what is becoming near rampant sexism about the uppity number one woman in national politics and international renown...Streep was right. She is committed, qualified, seasoned, and can kick Republican butt and take names.
Personally, I didn't want either Obama or Hillary way back when as I'm far left of them, but I can keep my integrity and also see reality and that does not include 8 more years of Republican attempts to accomplish what they set out to do 6 years ago...anything to get the Black Guy and The Feminist...and the next 8 years of them basiclly negotiating with their own Tea Party and gutting the rest of the country. If we really believe the Republicans are on the ropes now, and if we proceed with intelligence, we can help that process along as well as our Party. If we capitulate, get caught up in a brutal internecine war and fail to nominate the only candidate that keeps them up nights, we blinked and caved.
My vote in the Primary is open until voting day. I won't give one vote, dollar or an hour of my time for any Democrat, however comfy I am or am not with the totality of their positions, who has no chance of leading the party and the country for the next 8 years. Then it's a Straight Ticket.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)or so, don't know exactly how much, but deep pockets for sure. He hasn't been vetted on the national stage, but he has the integrity, the toughness, the positions, and the guts not only to campaign well but to do the job well. I would love to see him take a shot at it.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)ffr
(22,670 posts)But I had no idea how galvanizing and assertive she was. Makes me all the more proud of all of what she has accomplished for our great nation and the people of the world. She has a positive impact wherever she goes. Meryl Streeps tribute was touching.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)But overall, her love of war and outsourcing undoes a lot of that, especially when you consider that Women will take the brunt of our foreign policy mistakes. Libya and Syria may not be paradise for Women, but we know full well they do a lot of the dying, and that the "rebels" aka wheover we support, will be ready to wrap ladies in burkas and starting making the whips and nooses bloody.
Also, who gets hurt by her love of outsourcing, ladies trying to make a living.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)No matter how many Hollywood stars line up.
I'm only voting my conscience from here on out. No more candidates packaged and sold like so much toothpaste.
renie408
(9,854 posts)This was a lovely article praising a woman who has fought for other women her whole life. Who has saved the lives of women all over the world.
And instead of simply acknowledging the good, so many of the people who reply have to attack Hillary Clinton because they do not think she is an appropriate Presidential candidate. I am unsure of who I will vote for in 2016, mostly because it is three years away and we don't know who is running. Hillary Clinton is probably not going to be my first choice in a primary. But I WILL vote for her if she gets the nomination and I can still admire her for the good things she has done.
Sometimes I think the people here are so busy being savvy and knowledgeable that they just look like assholes.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)One would have thought that the woman being honored was Nancy Reagan or Margaret Thatcher. The venom is that bad. Quite pathetic considering that this is supposed to be a Democratic site.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Hillary cares more about keeping the status quo and helping out the corporations.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)The second video titled "Hillary Clinton being a boss" needs its own post. Love watching all of Hillary's greatest moments!
History will look at Hillary Clinton as someone who never gave up and continued to succeed, despite being knocked down over and over again. She will be seen as a polarizing trailblazer who finally found her voice leading to eventual success as First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State.
Once in positions of power, Hillary is ruthless when it comes to effectively advocating for her positions and destroying the opposition. This is why Republicans have fought (and failed) to stop her political career from climbing to new heights.
Hillary's resilience is unparalleled. She bounces back in the face of defeat because she's smart, articulate, and tough.
Many of Hillary's colleagues have often noted that she is almost always the most knowledgeable person in the room about any given issue. Her knowledge, persistence, and stamina is an unstoppable combination. Her perseverance, despite being attacked daily for the last 30 years, is a testament to her political skill and brilliance.
Former President Bill Clinton, the other half of this political powerhouse, often describes Hillary as the most competent person in his generation. I couldn't agree more. So although she may have been too polarizing to win the Presidency in 2008, we can all be certain that if given the opportunity, she would have been one of the most competent and successful President's in our lifetime. And I hope she is given another chance in 2016.
Hillary Clinton:
"I really don't spend a lot of time worrying about what people think about me...I would be totally paralyzed. How could you get up in the morning if you worried about some poll or what somebody said about you? That's giving up power over your life to somebody else, and I don't intend to do that."
"Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward. Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been."
"I'm not going to mislead anybody. Politics is really hard. And it is harder for women. There's a double standard, and you can't complain about it. You just have to accept it, and be smart enough to navigate it. And you have to have a pretty tough skin. To paraphrase a favorite quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: If a woman wants to be in politics, she has to have the skin of a rhinoceros. Most men who go into politics just think they're great. They believe they can do anything. Most young women, not only in politics but in most areas, are more cautious and more likely to say, 'Could I really do this? Am I good enough?' I was talking to a friend and very successful businessman the other day, and he said, 'The thing that still annoys me more than anything is that I see all these young women who are so much more capable than they allow themselves to believe. And I see so many young men who are so much less capable but who believe they are God's gift to the world.' I would just say to women: Try it! Put your foot in the pond and see if you want to swim."
"Occasionally I'll be sitting somewhere and I'll be listening to someone perhaps not saying the kindest things about me. And I'll look down at my hand and I'll sort of pinch my skin to make sure it still has the requisite thickness I know Eleanor Roosevelt expects me to have."
"When you stumble, keep faith. And when you're knocked down, get right back up, and never listen to anyone who says you can't or shouldn't go on."
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)She could have stopped Bill from amking it Polarizing by telling him to shut his mouth. Indeed, if she had put him in his place,instead of letting him hog the attention with stuff like "we got mugged." she might have won.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)No one controls Bill Clinton. He's a force of nature.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)If she cannot control Bill, or even keep Bill from taking control, then I do wonder how she will control the Nation.
Of course, one would think Bill would owe her the respect to shut up, and not try to hog the camera time or conduct agendas behind Hillary's back, such as Keystone or Syria, but then again, he isa force of nature, one that cannot be bothered to respect whatever his wife may wish.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Of course Hillary should be able to contain Bill. Indeed, who the Hell was Bill to think he had the right to mug for the camera. The idea that Bill was some 'force of nature" was what I was slamming, because Bill should know to behave, and NOT try to use Hillary to get his way. Believe me, if Hillary winds up givign bill his long, long deserved comeuppance, I will be the first to cheer amen!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Historic NY
(37,451 posts)I'll reserve the right to see what happens in a year or so.....if she or someone else steps up to the plate.
She was a good neighbor.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)I know people who live there. They see the Clintons all the time (particularly Bill since Hillary was either in DC or traveling most of the time). They are very accessible.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)all the time
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Unfortunately I've seen people use the "cultural sensitivity" argument, even here, in defending inexcusable, egregious practices like FGM.
No matter who I end up supporting in the 2016 Primaries, I respect and admire Senator Clinton and if she is the Nominee I will support her enthusiastically. And I think she would make a formidable one, and a damn fine President.
Thanks for posting.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)First impressions are lasting.
I've never shaken the first impression she made on me, appearing on 60 minutes to "stand by her man" by explaining that she wasn't "standing by her man."
She was excusing cheating. For political purposes. I don't like cheating. She lost a measure of my respect at that time, and never regained it.
For the rest? She's a neoliberal. That's enough for me to know that she won't get my support politically.
Trying to hide that behind emotional appeals won't work.
Gothmog
(145,313 posts)I look forward to supporting her
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... a Turd Way Democrat, anymore?
Meryl Streep or any other Hollywood name is certainly welcome to think and say whatever they please. I don't base my political support on what they think, I base it on the policy of each candidate on the issues that affect me. Hilary Clinton doesn't pass that test, nor does any Turd Way corporatist "Democrat."
Want my support and vote? Fight for the 99% and quit kissing corporate and MIC scum ass. Period.
left is right
(1,665 posts)First let me explain that on all of the political quizzes, I am further to the left of every Democratic President in my life-time and that includes JFK.
2016 is not the year for a woman president; it is too soon after our first Black President. Many moderates will need the time to reflect and come to the conclusion that he didnt drive our democracy over the cliff and in fact we didn't suffer any ill-effects.
Even after this period of reflection, hopefully as soon as 2020, HC in many eyes would not be the ideal candidate based solely on anti-dynastic reasoning. We fervently pray that there will never be another bush on our lifetimes; but we are also not overly excited for another Clinton, until at least, Chelsea comes of age.
Some of us dont want to see an HC campaign less because of anti-dynastic reasoning or her personal competency than the extremely likelihood that the press will take every opportunity to smear her unmercifullyin an attempt to poison the well of potential voters. Scorpions (the press) are incapable of changing their nature.
Finally, as a Senator she seemed to be too often on the wrong side. On this issue, I admit that I may not be remembering her votes correctly but my impression is she that she was a war hawk, and too conservative on all of the issues that I care aboutpoverty, justice and equality of outcome as well as opportunity
JTShroyer
(246 posts)Pretty sure they both built the Clinton brand together -- ever since their days together at Yale Law. Bill owes just as much of his success to HER. They are a power COUPLE. Period.
In 2016 let's put the Clinton's back where they belong -- THE WHITE HOUSE.
The Clinton's are coming back to town!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)With so much oppresion and violence aimed specifically at us plus the fact that when atrocities happen to women, it is ignored, hidden, minimized or set aside for other issues, women need someone like this. Rarely are women who do such work recognized for it.
And look at this right here. The thread devolves into a hate fest. Set aside the point for other issues.
Hardly anyone here taking the point that women around the world need an unwavering advocate and role model, who will fight for their sake and won't back down.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)What's even more disappointing is how many pooh-poohed the claims of many women from around the world who said publicly how Hillary had helped them with their cause and in some cases with their lives. The vitriol against her is so disappointing, it reminds me of the kind of visceral hate that I read in RW sites. She can never win in their book, no matter what she does.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Just like her husband
Both of them are trying to prove that boomers can be psychopaths at war as well as the silent gen that raised them
JTShroyer
(246 posts)2016!!
JTShroyer
(246 posts)-Over 50 people died from 13 embassy/consulate attacks under Bush. Where was the outrage over that?
-The nonpartisan Accountability Review Board did not find Hillary Clinton responsible for Benghazi.
-Hillary did not receive the cables from Benghazi.
-The biggest security failure, 9/11/2001, happened under a Republican administration.
-Republicans in Congress cut MILLIONS in embassy security.
-The Obama Administration did not lie to the American people, they simply told us what the intelligence community told them and Congress. The intelligence community was wrong. Now we know. At least we werent lied into another war based on false intelligence!
Benghazi is a case of fake outrage and a witch hunt against Hillary Clinton. Why werent the Republicans outraged over 9/11/2001? Why werent Republicans outraged over the deaths from the unnecessary Iraq war? Why werent Republicans outraged over the 13 embassies that were attacked (and 50+ people that died) under George Bush?
The fact is, our embassies will never be 100% secure. Weve had 20 Accountability Review Boards since 1988 because security overseas is never a perfect science. This is not the first embassy attack, nor will it be the last.
Those who decide to pursue careers in diplomatic work know the risks. Obviously we try to do everything we can to make sure our embassies are secure, but embassy security is NEVER 100%.
In addition, Republicans continue to attack Hillary Clinton by misrepresenting her words and taking them out of context.
Obviously Hillary did not say, "What difference does it make?" in regards to the death of 4 Americans in Benghazi.
If Republicans bothered to look at where this quote came from, they would realize it came from an exchange between Hillary and Senator Ron Johnston.
Mr. Johnston repeatedly asked Hillary why the Obama Administration and Susan Rice said Benghazi began because of a YouTube video (when it could have been easily discovered that was not the case by interviewing the people on the ground).
Hillary explained to Mr. Johnston (repeatedly) that it would have been inappropriate to contact those on the ground before the FBI had conducted their interviews. Hillary continued to explain to Mr. Johnston that at the time of Susan Rices statements, her statements did not contradict the intelligence communities talking-points.
But Mr. Johnston would not accept Hillarys explanation. He continued to imply that the Obama Administration lied and misled the American people.
Hillary, becoming fed up with Mr. Johnston playing politics with a tragedy, said, "What difference, AT THIS POINT, does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened, and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, Senator."
(funny how Republicans always leave out her next sentence)
Hillarys point was that it doesnt make any difference what Susan Rice said on a Sunday morning talk show. Focusing on that will not solve the problem. Mr. Johnston was playing politics with a tragedy and Hillary grew impatient with him after she repeatedly tried to explain to him what should be common sense.
Im sick and tired of seeing this quote misrepresented and taken out of context.
BOTTOM LINE: Hillary Clinton was not found responsible for the Benghazi attacks according to the non-partasian Accountability Review Board, and she implemented all of their recommendations. This is not the first, nor the last, embassy attack that will result in the death of American lives. Remember we had more people die in embassy attacks during Bushs Administration.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)Please consider reading it and posting it. Here's the link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/18/1248523/-You-won-t-see-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-same-light-ever-again
JTShroyer
(246 posts)She will win if everyone see's these two videos.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)before 2016