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DearAbby

(12,461 posts)
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:53 PM Oct 2013

Is Republican Obstructionism Criminal?

<snip>

...Given the public disgust with this behavior, and the GOP threat to continue using what amount to thug tactics, it is not an unreasonable question.

Thus, the question is whether the Congressional Republicans have entered into a criminal conspiracy by using the tactics they are now employing. More specifically, the inquiry is into whether Republicans are, in effect, obstructing, if not destroying, our government with their actions in violation of the federal criminal code, namely Section 371 of Title 18, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud (read also: obstruct) the government of the United States.
- See more at: http://verdict.justia.com/2013/10/18/republican-obstructionism-criminal#sthash.07yQnO3N.dpuf


Interesting read.

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is Republican Obstructionism Criminal? (Original Post) DearAbby Oct 2013 OP
what would be the remedy? grasswire Oct 2013 #1
It's stupid SamYeager Oct 2013 #2
Yep loyalsister Oct 2013 #8
To give one example... dairydog91 Oct 2013 #9
Gerrymandering, it is something that has to be stopped Rex Oct 2013 #11
Shutting down the government in the middle of a war... sofa king Oct 2013 #3
Treason. Rex Oct 2013 #4
Would you have been willing to pass a separate bill solely for defense appropriations? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #7
Hell, yes! sofa king Oct 2013 #12
It IS an unreasonable question for any country with an independent legislature. dairydog91 Oct 2013 #5
It's frightening that it isn't malaise Oct 2013 #6
At least a general rule in Congress Rex Oct 2013 #10
If it had been Dems who created the shutdown, Isoldeblue Oct 2013 #13

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
8. Yep
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:40 PM
Oct 2013

It would take a more thorough historical search than I am up for, but I have no doubt that there are incidences where Democrats have exploited parliamentary rules and procedure to their benefit.

dairydog91

(951 posts)
9. To give one example...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:44 PM
Oct 2013

Theoretically, the President has the power to appoint certain officials without Senate approval if the Senate is not in session. Both Republicans and Democrats have blocked recess appointments using pro forma Senate sessions (That is, purely formal sessions where no legislating takes place).

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
11. Gerrymandering, it is something that has to be stopped
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:47 PM
Oct 2013

is illegal and is a central issue now.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
3. Shutting down the government in the middle of a war...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:21 PM
Oct 2013

... there's a more precise definition for that crime. Ain't there, Republicans?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
4. Treason.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:26 PM
Oct 2013

But of course we can never actually charge anyone in the GOP with a crime, they seem to being doing great themselves without any need of our help. Sadly they don't seem to actually go to jail for crime...just look at Tom Delay, no nevermind don't look at him.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
12. Hell, yes!
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:54 PM
Oct 2013

Veterans Affairs, too. I hate this goddamned war and want it over just as much as anyone else. But until then, those are our boys and girls over there, and the Republicans placed them in harm's way by destabilizing our government and our economy while they are still mired in combat.

That would have been called "fifth column" disruption right here in the United States in the 1950s, and the 1930s, and the concept would have been unchanged with a different defining term in the 1920s and before that, before Emilio Mola coined it in 1936.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

Not coincidentally, the "fifth column" in Spain was a fascist term coined by a fascist general in a fascist-supported civil war. Republican voters should take careful note of that--this is what they are, now: fascist fifth columnists.

dairydog91

(951 posts)
5. It IS an unreasonable question for any country with an independent legislature.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:27 PM
Oct 2013

And focusing on quack-law prescriptions based on dubious, extraordinarily broad readings of sedition laws is pointless considering the provisions in the Constitution that provide Congresscritters with damn near TOTAL immunity when it comes to legislating. Sedition laws, even if they would otherwise apply to this behavior, cannot override Constitutional immunity. While I would hope this would be a fairly basic bit of civics knowledge, it's a fundamental point of American law that Congress cannot override the Constitution with a law. Thus, the sedition law, regardless of whether or not it "applies", CANNOT override the Constitutional protections for legislators. The only thing that can override Constitutional immunity is a full-on Constitutional amendment.

"Public disgust" is completely irrelevant from a legal standpoint, unless you've decided that it's time to toss the Constitution and start holding Stalinesque show trials for "enemies of the People". In the American system, legislators who vote "wrong" lose elections. If they follow their constituents' wishes, then they are fulfilling their duty to represent their district/state. If their constituents are voting for something boneheaded like defunding the government or invading Australia, well, then you'll just have to get used to the reality that one of the joys of democracy is getting to hear the wishes of stupid voters.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
10. At least a general rule in Congress
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:46 PM
Oct 2013

If you cannot repeal a law after say 10 tries in a year, you get a red card. Something is better then nothing imo. The bailout proved we do not actually believe in capitalism, just give it lip service.

Isoldeblue

(1,135 posts)
13. If it had been Dems who created the shutdown,
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 07:50 PM
Oct 2013

the rethugs would have charged us with sedition. So why can't we do the same?

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