Nobel Peace Drones.

For too many people everything is seen through the prism of partisanship.

Watch and see how many posts and recs this thread will garner.

I've posted a lot of threads about drones and the ones that get some recognition are the ones I have to kick the crap out of.

I am embarrassed that my country is killing innocent people and continues to do so.
No one is held accountable and there's no end in sight.
We are murderers.

At Tue Oct 22, 2013, 12:20 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

on DU most people don't give a shit that the U.S is committing war crimes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3899263

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This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

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Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Cali has a good point. If you disagree, then why not debate it with her?
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I have no idea why this was even alerted on.

There are a lot of reasons for me to like Obama, but I can't accept his stance on drone warfare and the use of our military in general. I'm appalled that our Nobel Peace Prize winning president has allowed the wars in the Middle East to continue as they have and he has allowed our militarism to continue unabated throughout the rest of the world. Our expanding role in Africa and the so called Asian pivot make me sick.

She is just as much of a warmonger as Obama.

I post news stories about it.

And honestly, I think it's a bit more complex than that, but one thing is certain, I cannot support these polices. I cannot support Hillary Clinton for President because of this and other issues.

A few days ago there was a long admiring thread about Hillary's support for women. These policies are bad for women and children.

Hillary Clinton is absolutely a cold-hearted warmonger. Obama, maybe not so much, but Hillary Clinton yes.

She voted for the war on Iraq and flat out stated in 2008 that she will never apologize for her vote as she didn't believe that she did anything wrong. That is exactly the same thing bush said when prodded in an interview after leaving office. She and the rest of the politician (and Americans citizens who ever supported the war) owe the people of Iraq and our veterans a huge apology.

Again, I'm not trying to bash you over the head with this point but as a guilt-ladened participant of the war anyone and anything associated with the war on Iraq is a huge sticking point for me. I personally will always view Hillary Clinton as a warmonger.

Now, if I ever saw her address a group of Iraqi delegates and veterans and offer a true, teary, and heartfelt apology where she admits that the only reason she voted for war in 2003 was because it was the politically expedient thing to do, I could accept that. However, until then, I view her no different than the rest of the sociopaths that voted and supported that war.

I've made it clear I won't vote for her in the primaries because of her policies and choices. I've said for years that just her voting for the IWR is enough for me to make that decision and there are other issues.

I can say that without getting into tedious arguments about her personality or bashing people over the head applying such labels as "warmonger".

Clearly we don't disagree on the issues. We do disagree on what language to employ.

Without a doubt, I'm sure we agree on the fundamentals of the issues.

Last edited Tue Oct 22, 2013, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Imagine how these kids will feel about the U.S. when they get grown. We were their boogeymen as a child, the ones who scared the shit out of them every day. This is just one more thing we're going to have to pay for one day.

Thank you for sharing it, and making sure this situation gets the attention it deserves.

Consider this a kick.

Rec.

ON EDIT: Edited to show appreciation for helping to keep DU discussion targeted where it belongs - on important issues like these!

It's unnecessary.

I've edited my post appropriately.

Hopefully this reply will help keep this thread kicked.

of Democrats, elected officials of both parties, progressives, conservatives, etc.

If not then we might just as well be FreeRepublic.

I do not like posts that are simply visceral exhortations about the President, Democrats, etc. but posts such as this one that states facts need to been seen and heard.

I will not support Hillary in the primaries due to her long history of supporting military action. But, if the choice in 2016 is Hillary versus Ted "the annointed one" Cruz, Rand "I have a critter on my head" Paul or some other right-winger, I will vote Hillary. Living in Georgia my vote is not likely to count but I will vote and it will not be for the Republican or Tea Party candidate.

We need to have a serious discussion about the indiscriminate use of drones. I do not oppose their use when the target is clearly identified, the target is known to have committed acts against Americans or other innocents or is known to be plotting to commit acts against Americans or other innocents. But we have to stop the indiscriminate use and err on the side of caution when the risk of collateral damage is too great.

We're killing innocent people and creating more enemies. It's crazy.

I hear planes all day. I can't imagine if every time, I wondered if it was a drone attack. The toll it takes on you must be unbelievable.

K&R.

Whole nations with PTSD, millions of people getting violent flashbacks and panic attacks whenever they hear a plane, or a loud bang, or probably even just strong winds.

How anybody can defend this is utterly unbelievable, cold hearted in the extreme and entirely detestable. This is THE number one reason the US becomes more and more disliked, mistrusted or plain hated every day. Anti-americanism in the west in the eighties and nineties was a diffuse mindset based mainly on Vietnam, speculation and gut feelings. Today there is a present, cold, hard reason for it.

As for the vast regions targeted by these killings: the seeds sown today will lead to a terrible harvest.

Should, being the operative word

there is room under the bus for Amnesty International AND Human Rights Watch.
...we'll see

is TERROR. No other other description would be as accurate.

If they were allowed to get old enough, they'd understand our benevolence.

drone policy

but it does and yes, I know you're being ironic, Douglas. What makes me crazy is the defense of this that I'm seeing.

Correspondent: General, we're told of wonder weapons the Germans were working on: Long-range rockets, push-button bombing weapons that don't need soldiers. What's your take on that?

Patton: Wonder weapons? My God, I don't see the wonder in them. Killing without heroics. Nothing is glorified, nothing is reaffirmed. No heroes, no cowards, no troops. No generals. Only those that are left alive and those that are left... dead.


"Patton" remains one of my favorites because the writers (intentionally) weaved in a lot of subtle, ironic anti-war sentiments while keeping it a straight, flag-waving hagiography...

I can barely stand to think of children living in horror and fear daily because of what my country is doing. I understand why some don't want to face the crime of it, the horror of it. .it's wrong, and it is painful to accept the truth of it... yet, we perpetuate it. We are the terrorists. My country. our country.. .with the use of these friggin drones.

I'm still not sure what people think the Pakistani government would do if we stopped doing their bombing for them.

aside from that I think it's extremely problematical that the U.S. is bombing in countries we are not at war with. period.

Of course some of you are fine with perpetual war. YOU constantly defend it.

fuck that.

I've said I'm iffy on our drones, I just have never seen air strikes as a black and white question. They might be saving more people than they kill or not. I don't know, but I don't pretend there's only one side to this equation.

all over the tv here in Canada, except they used stronger language.