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polichick

(37,152 posts)
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 01:01 PM Oct 2013

Democratic Voters Need To Face Reality Too

Dem leaders are so much better than RepubliCON leaders, it's easy to assume that they're on our side.

But RepubliCON voters are not the only ones having trouble accepting reality. If Dem voters are going to protect "entitlements" and strengthen the middle class, we have to stand up to our leaders.

We have to say NO WAY when it comes to putting Social Security on the table and when it comes to the TPP - even when it's President Obama doing it.

We have to DEMAND that they deal with climate change and wealth distribution. (And many more things.)

It's really not enough just to elect Dems, though it's a way to keep us all busy. Giving Dems both houses of Congress and the WH won't change the way they serve corporations and the MIC first. (We saw that a few years ago.)

Dem voters have to accept reality too - and then hold our leaders accountable.

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democratic Voters Need To Face Reality Too (Original Post) polichick Oct 2013 OP
!!! Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #1
P.S. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #2
I'm rooting for the people! polichick Oct 2013 #6
No worries, you didn't pass the purity test. Rex Oct 2013 #7
Thanks! The minute I pass the purity test, you can shoot me. polichick Oct 2013 #16
Total troll post beerandjesus Oct 2013 #21
You would know. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #23
Think Joe Liebermann...Dem VP candidate and member of the republican caucus. HereSince1628 Oct 2013 #3
Yep - it was great when voters paid for ads to target blue dogs during... polichick Oct 2013 #5
Michael Moore's "The Awful Truth" had a chart where Clinton and Dole had the same policies. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #22
THIS. +1 n/t Triana Oct 2013 #4
After the primaries weed out the padded room candidates, I vote straight D tickets. nt BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #8
Who are the "padded room candidates" in the Dem primaries? polichick Oct 2013 #10
Candidates that can only get 1-2% of the vote, but are fawned over relentlessly by some BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #12
++1,000 nt kelliekat44 Oct 2013 #9
We don't all march lock step. Blanks Oct 2013 #11
I'm advocating putting the people and the planet over corporate/mic interests... polichick Oct 2013 #14
I can see that. Blanks Oct 2013 #17
imo our taxes should reflect the kind of vehicles we drive, how large a house we insist upon, etc... polichick Oct 2013 #19
Our representatives don't represent us because... Blanks Oct 2013 #37
we did FINE when clinton RAISED TAXES ON ALL. why didn't the 90's get poited to??? pansypoo53219 Oct 2013 #13
It's difficult to poit back in time. eom Blanks Oct 2013 #18
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #15
Great quote! polichick Oct 2013 #20
Nice sentiment, but not necessarily good strategy or a good game theory Silent3 Oct 2013 #26
So, you don't vote your principles? Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #27
My principles include good outcomes, even it's just the better of two evils. Silent3 Oct 2013 #28
So, Gore didn't appeal enough to the left to capture their votes. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #29
There's plenty of blame to go around. Silent3 Oct 2013 #33
I am sick of mediocre noiretextatique Oct 2013 #38
so the crappy public school system, crushing college costs, low wages, cuts to liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #32
Better isn't always "good" or "great", just better, and much of what's wrong now... Silent3 Oct 2013 #34
you go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I will fight for my children's education and liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #35
Wha? No way! Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #24
+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2013 #25
I'm an ex democrat, now independent. Any democrat who wants my vote will have to earn it. liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #30
That's my situation too - Dem activist for decades but no more... polichick Oct 2013 #31
Feet to the fire...always. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #36
Amen! polichick Oct 2013 #39

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)
2. P.S.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:08 PM
Oct 2013
Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important —therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
7. No worries, you didn't pass the purity test.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:58 PM
Oct 2013

Only 1% of DU does and you can see how well adjusted they are!

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
3. Think Joe Liebermann...Dem VP candidate and member of the republican caucus.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:11 PM
Oct 2013

The philosophical shift of the DLC the late 80s and 90's resulted in the US having 2 political parties both to the right of center and both endorsing the notion that the business of government was promoting profits rather than the the promotion of national policies and practices that effect the advance of the collective welfare of all citizens.



polichick

(37,152 posts)
5. Yep - it was great when voters paid for ads to target blue dogs during...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:32 PM
Oct 2013

the healthcare fight, but not so great that the WH sided with the blue dogs.

We have to stay clear on who they're really working for.

 
12. Candidates that can only get 1-2% of the vote, but are fawned over relentlessly by some
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:08 PM
Oct 2013

as the only saviors of the party and of the people. People like that would never have the political capital to get anything done.

Sure, I may vote for them myself in the primaries... but once that's over... it is my DUTY and the duty of all Democrats to back the general election candidate with a 'D' next to their name.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
11. We don't all march lock step.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:07 PM
Oct 2013

I don't agree with calling it climate change, simply because that's not a solution it's a complaint. If we are going to ask our elected officials to solve problems, we have to define the solution.

The solution to climate change is investment in alternative energies and there is a social security problem - the solution is raise the cap. Asking to not 'put social security on the table' is not recognizing that there is an upcoming problem.

The TPP, if anyone thinks that they're solving the problem of factory jobs being sent off because of trade agreements needs to watch 'Modern Marvels' (on the History channel. Manufacturing jobs are disappearing because of automation not trade agreements.

The only fire that we need to hold our elected officials feet to - are tax increases on the wealthy, return to the anti-trust laws that were around in the post WWII era and push for alternative energies. I believe you are advocating for looking at symptoms and not the problems themselves.

I don't disagree with your assertion that we need to hold our representatives accountable, but I don't agree completely with your issues. It isn't that I believe that it makes you wrong - it illustrates how difficult its going to be to hold them accountable. We all have different 'pet' issues.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
14. I'm advocating putting the people and the planet over corporate/mic interests...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:10 PM
Oct 2013

regarding all issues.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
17. I can see that.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:23 PM
Oct 2013

I agree with you in concept, I just think we have to be careful what we are asking for (or insisting on), and the solution to the social security issue is to raise the cap. If we all insist on opposing the chained CPI proposal then we are advocating for the program eventually running out of money.

We can't realistically address climate change without some kind of plan. I drive, I expect most people here drive. What kind of plan do you have for taking all the cars off the road?

It isn't only the wealthy and corporations that contribute to climate change - it is built into our society. Do you want to eliminate school bussing? What are we asking for here - when it comes to climate change? What sacrifices are you willing to make?

polichick

(37,152 posts)
19. imo our taxes should reflect the kind of vehicles we drive, how large a house we insist upon, etc...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:29 PM
Oct 2013

There has to be a price for the choices we make.

But my concern re this thread is that many Dem leaders don't even begin to create a plan - don't even WANT to have a meaningful plan - because their constituents are really not the people.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
37. Our representatives don't represent us because...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:48 PM
Oct 2013

Taxes aren't high enough on the wealthiest.

There are companies and individuals that receive huge returns on their investment (of congress in their back pocket) by persuading those representatives to spend on things that they benefit from.

All of our problems are because we don't tax the high earners enough.

When you look at the periods in history when we had the greatest economic expansion - they coincide with higher taxes on high earners. I don't believe that's a coincidence.

As far as taxes on possessions: no. Certain possessions are legitimate business expenses (vehicles for example) and shouldn't be taxed at all. There's no good reason to tax people because they're buying things necessary to conduct business (even houses to some extent). It is the practice of earning excessive money by squeezing it out of less fortunate people and then hiding that money in places where it doesn't circulate within the economy that must be stopped.

Raising the top marginal tax rate to 91% like it was in the 1950's is the way to do that.

pansypoo53219

(20,987 posts)
13. we did FINE when clinton RAISED TAXES ON ALL. why didn't the 90's get poited to???
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:09 PM
Oct 2013

SS is an EASY FUCKING FIX. INDEX THE GODDAM CAP.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
15. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:11 PM
Oct 2013
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

Silent3

(15,254 posts)
26. Nice sentiment, but not necessarily good strategy or a good game theory
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:07 PM
Oct 2013

Real-life outcomes are more important to me than "cherish(ing) sweetest reflection".

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
27. So, you don't vote your principles?
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:11 PM
Oct 2013

Or, is being loyal to a party a principle?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

Silent3

(15,254 posts)
28. My principles include good outcomes, even it's just the better of two evils.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:29 PM
Oct 2013

Congratulating myself on my "principles" by either not voting or voting for an obscure candidate with practically zero chance of winning is not worth boosting the chance of practically any Republican beating practically any Democrat.

When I think of how a few hundred votes could have spared us eight years of Bush, and the hideous price of those eight years in lives lost, trillions wasted, increased wealth disparity -- there's no way any "message" people voting for Nader was worth that price, no clear message was received by Democrats to go more left rather than more right by those Nader votes, and even though we got Obama in 2008, the 2010 election showed that the public and the candidates had still learned very little of lasting impact from eight years of Bush.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
29. So, Gore didn't appeal enough to the left to capture their votes.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:40 PM
Oct 2013

The obvious answer for the party is to move to the left to capture the votes of the left. If the Democrats didn't receive that message who's to fault? The voters or the Democrats?

Silent3

(15,254 posts)
33. There's plenty of blame to go around.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:05 PM
Oct 2013

Results matter more than placing blame. I'd rather have a mediocre Democrat than a bad Republican and a smug feeling he/she isn't my fault.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
32. so the crappy public school system, crushing college costs, low wages, cuts to
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:57 PM
Oct 2013

food stamps, raising the age on SS, and not giving cost of living increases for SS are good outcomes? The democrats are hurting poor people and the middle class is disappearing. Either they stand up for us or there will be an increasing number of people who will not stand up for them at election time.

Silent3

(15,254 posts)
34. Better isn't always "good" or "great", just better, and much of what's wrong now...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:14 PM
Oct 2013

...is due Republican obstructionism, not lackluster Democrats, it's due to low Democratic voter turnout in 2010 (where if a few less-than-inspired Democratic voters could have saved all of us a lot of pain by making beating the Republicans more important to their motivation than expressing their lack of enthusiasm for the available Democrats), not to mention the legacy of Bush, which could have been avoided in 2000 with just a few hundred more votes here and there, no doubt many of which didn't turn out for Gore because he just wasn't "good enough" to "earn" the votes of a few Democrats more concerned about feeling good about themselves for not compromising rather than the good of the general public.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
35. you go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I will fight for my children's education and
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:18 PM
Oct 2013

wages. If a democratic candidate comes along that will join me in that fight I will vote for them. If not, I will not vote for them.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
30. I'm an ex democrat, now independent. Any democrat who wants my vote will have to earn it.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:44 PM
Oct 2013

We have to reverse the thirty years of Reaganomics that is crushing this country.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
31. That's my situation too - Dem activist for decades but no more...
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:50 PM
Oct 2013

I'd only work for a candidate who would absolutely put people and the planet ahead of corporations.

Unfortunately, most Dem leaders are complicit in perpetuating Reaganomics.

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