General Discussion

Purveyor

(29,876 posts) Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:09 PM Oct 2013

The NSA's Big Terrorism Claim Doesn't Hold Up

Claim on “Attacks Thwarted” by NSA Spreads Despite Lack of Evidence

ProPublica | Posted: 10/23/2013 9:15 am EDT

Two weeks after Edward Snowden’s first revelations about sweeping government surveillance, President Obama shot back. “We know of at least 50 threats that have been averted because of this information not just in the United States, but, in some cases, threats here in Germany,” Obama said during a visit to Berlin in June. “So lives have been saved.”

In the months since, intelligence officials, media outlets, and members of Congress from both parties all repeated versions of the claim that NSA surveillance has stopped more than 50 terrorist attacks. The figure has become a key talking point in the debate around the spying programs.

“Fifty-four times this and the other program stopped and thwarted terrorist attacks both here and in Europe — saving real lives,” Rep. Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, said on the House floor in July, referring to programs authorized by a pair of post-9/11 laws. “This isn’t a game. This is real.”

But there's no evidence that the oft-cited figure is accurate.

The NSA itself has been inconsistent on how many plots it has helped prevent and what role the surveillance programs played. The agency has often made hedged statements that avoid any sweeping assertions about attacks thwarted.

MORE...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/nsa-attacks-thwarted_n_4148766.html

http://www.propublica.org/article/claim-on-attacks-thwarted-by-nsa-spreads-despite-lack-of-evidence

19 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The NSA's Big Terrorism Claim Doesn't Hold Up (Original Post) Purveyor Oct 2013 OP

These guys think so too! Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #1

Many 'odd bedfellows' on this issue, indeed. eom Purveyor Oct 2013 #3

"Odd"...indeed. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #4

Where have I seen that 'OATHKEEPERS' thing before... wait, wait... don't tell me... BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #7

Exactly! This is no accident. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #12

Ah, well, I guess I'm ok with the NSA now. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #13

Some of us know exactly what's happening here. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #15

Got the double! NuclearDem Oct 2013 #16

Other than the fact that no one who matters gives a shit about GG, nothing more to say! Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #17

Wait, nothing about Greenwald? NuclearDem Oct 2013 #18

GG is irrelevant to folks "who matter". Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #19

Well, this whole NSA thing was never really about fighting terrorism Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #2

So, tell me, what IS it about? nt jazzimov Oct 2013 #9

Mass collection of infomation Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #11

lack of released evidence does not equal "doesn't hold up" arely staircase Oct 2013 #5

one could make the same claim about santa claus frylock Oct 2013 #6

one could but it really wouldn't be analogous arely staircase Oct 2013 #10

What part of "secret" don't you understand? jazzimov Oct 2013 #8

No, not spying. Just collecting and saving massive amounts of data on us. EOTE Oct 2013 #14

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

1. These guys think so too!

Reply to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:15 PM

Oct 2013

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)

3. Many 'odd bedfellows' on this issue, indeed. eom

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:16 PM

Oct 2013

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

4. "Odd"...indeed.

Reply to Purveyor (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:18 PM

Oct 2013

BluegrassStateBlues

(881 posts)

7. Where have I seen that 'OATHKEEPERS' thing before... wait, wait... don't tell me...

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 07:46 PM

Oct 2013

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

12. Exactly! This is no accident.

Reply to BluegrassStateBlues (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 12:55 PM

Oct 2013

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)

13. Ah, well, I guess I'm ok with the NSA now.

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 12:59 PM

Oct 2013

Didn't we exhaust the guilt-by-association meme during the Snowden Wars?

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

15. Some of us know exactly what's happening here.

Reply to NuclearDem (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:18 PM

Oct 2013

Paulbots try infiltrating the Democratic Underground.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002243976

Ron Paul Supporters Try Brainwashing Democrats...

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023152339

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)

16. Got the double!

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:21 PM

Oct 2013

Oath Keepers and Rand Paul.

Now go for the triple with something about Greenwald!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

17. Other than the fact that no one who matters gives a shit about GG, nothing more to say!

Reply to NuclearDem (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:23 PM

Oct 2013

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)

18. Wait, nothing about Greenwald?

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:28 PM

Oct 2013

Tarheel_Dem

(31,237 posts)

19. GG is irrelevant to folks "who matter".

Reply to NuclearDem (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:34 PM

Oct 2013

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

2. Well, this whole NSA thing was never really about fighting terrorism

Reply to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:15 PM

Oct 2013

everyone should well know that by now...

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)

9. So, tell me, what IS it about? nt

Reply to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 07:56 PM

Oct 2013

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

11. Mass collection of infomation

Reply to jazzimov (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 08:12 PM

Oct 2013

Information is power...

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)

5. lack of released evidence does not equal "doesn't hold up"

Reply to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:22 PM

Oct 2013

It means they havent offered any proof. That could be because they are full of shit or not. But the headline implies the claim has been disproved.

frylock

(34,825 posts)

6. one could make the same claim about santa claus

Reply to arely staircase (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 07:44 PM

Oct 2013

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)

10. one could but it really wouldn't be analogous

Reply to frylock (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 07:59 PM

Oct 2013

I said the lack of proof could mean they are full of shit. I am not saying the government is being honest. I am only saying that the fact they haven't released proof is consistent with them lying for self serving reasons but that it is also consistent with them telling the truth but protecting sources and methods. And obviously without proof people will and should be skeptical

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)

8. What part of "secret" don't you understand?

Reply to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 07:54 PM

Oct 2013

Any evidence released would obviously tell HOW they did it, which means they would have to change the techniques that actually work.

Everyone seems to forget the hearings of 2008, when Bush's domestic spying actually made it to Congressional hearings, and the current system was created.

Now, I believe it could be better, but it is still controlled and LEGAL. And, no, they are NOT spying on Americans.

My main concern was that the information gathered could be used for political purposes. The FISA oversight and the Congressional oversight have killed that possibility.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)

14. No, not spying. Just collecting and saving massive amounts of data on us.

Reply to jazzimov (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 24, 2013, 01:04 PM

Oct 2013

That's so much better than spying. I can't believe the ungodly awful shit I see defended here on a daily basis.

Reply to this discussion