You know this, of course, as you were repeatedly told so in the other thread, but you choose to leave out this important information.

That's the problem with propaganda, and that is why it has no credibility.

so shut the fuck up, Angela.

P.S. She's trying to deflect from the fact that German government used U.S. intelligence agencies to spy on their own citizens. Fact.

it likely is, we have one of the most disturbingly invasive surveillance states in recent world history.

When it comes to matters of state surveillance, I trust him only marginally more than Clapper. And that isn't high praise.

I'll trust Obama over her.

Sorry.

As is evidenced by a growing body of international governments and world leaders.

This isn't just Obama vs. Merkel.

I'll believe the administration in this case.

And, as is clearly obvious, Clapper is a real piece of work. That he retains his position speaks volumes of the Obama administration.

Although, considering the sheer size of the intelligence community, I suspect it employs many more.

But they haven't said they didn't monitor such communications in the past.

Which is revealing in the same way that Clapper's "least untruthful" statement is revealing.

Which reaches a point where any allegation is simply dismissed as "lacking evidence."

Neither the Obama administration nor President Obama himself actually denied that Merkel's phone was tapped IN THE PAST.

you are arguing against an agenda of spin propaganda that brazenly ignores information it finds inconvenient and has quite thoroughly discredited itself.

"I'll believe the administration in this case." Ah, so you don't believe the administration in the other cases? Interesting. But the denial is about her phone being currently tapped , there were no denial of her having been spied on in the past.

“I would just urge you to look at the tenses used by the White House,” one German source told The Telegraph. “They speak only about the present and the future – we 'are not’ monitoring and we 'will not’ monitor, but not about the past. The clarification we are seeking is about the issue over all.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10400825/Angela-Merkel-calls-Barack-Obama-over-reports-her-phone-may-have-been-tapped-by-US.html

So she's the only one who haven't been spied on?

I've got absolutely no reason to believe it isn't true.

both in this thread and the other one.

Propaganda is not at all convincing when important information is repeatedly and brazenly treated as though it does not exist.

What POSSIBLE reason is there to suspect spying here?!

I mean, all we have to work with is a *pattern* of pervasive spying, serial *lying* about the pervasive spying, the investigations of German intelligence agencies...

...and the fact that the US does not deny having spied on her when asked about it directly.

The propaganda attempts would be hilarious if the surveillance state weren't a national disgrace.

Goodbye, Cali.

she is the last person who should be complaining. she should be explaining.

However, the revelations are revelatory, regardless of what the German state does.

If so, what is your evidence for that?

Here is the article from Der Spiegel:



German Chancellor Angela Merkel phoned United States President Barack Obama on Wednesday to discuss suspicions that she may have been targeted by US intelligence agencies for years, SPIEGEL has learned.

The chancellor asked for a thorough explanation of serious indications that US intelligence agencies had declared her private mobile phone to be a target in their operations.

Merkel made it clear that, should these indications turn out to be true, she "unequivocally disapproves" of such methods and finds them "totally unacceptable," her spokesman Steffen Seibert said. "This would be a grave breach of trust," he added. "Such practices must immediately be put to a stop."

The unusually strong reaction from the Chancellery was prompted by SPIEGEL research. After the information was examined by the country's foreign intelligence agency, the Federal Intelligence Service (BND), and the Federal Office for Information Security, Berlin seems to have found their suspicions plausible enough to confront the US government.

More

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/merkel-calls-obama-over-suspicions-us-tapped-her-mobile-phone-a-929642.html

Der Spiegel refers to a suspicion.

This may be where we need to look...when did it start and who started this?

They are our allies. Does that mean nothing?

he would congratulate them, have a friendly chat, and chide them them for being too sensitive.

And do a big Kabuki face for the kids, just like those other leaders.

or are trying.

Those other countries have a lot more to gain from it.

Spy on the people with secrets and power and leave regular folks the hell alone.

Not spying on the German leader? Why not, what the hell are we paying for intelligence for? Spying on some random German grandmother? Why the fuck for?

is ridiculous.

he certainly should be as aware of their propensity to lie as any American who is alert enough to have caught on by now.

No informed American sincerely believed that "There is no spying on Americans" at the point the President uttered those ludicrous words.

He is President, and the buck stops with him.

so this is not just "Greenwald" publishing something - der Spiegel alerted the government they had learned of the tapping, and three govt agencies investigated it, and it was legit enough to warrant a phonecall from Merkel, whereas she had remained very non-committal with all the earlier revelations, even having govt ministers declare the scandal "over".

-Laelth