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BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 05:28 AM Oct 2013

After the phone call: "Hot Water: German Foreign Minister Summons US Ambassador"

Last edited Thu Oct 24, 2013, 07:39 AM - Edit history (4)

From der Spiegel International but now the Guardian has an article up as well.
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle on Thursday took the unusual step of summoning the American ambassador to Germany to an afternoon meeting in Berlin in the wake of reports that the US might have spied on Chancellor Angela Merkel's cell phone.

Westerwelle felt compelled to call Ambassador John B. Emerson in following reports on Wednesday night that the US government possibly monitored Merkel's communications, Foreign Ministry sources told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

The foreign minister is to meet on Thursday afternoon with Emerson, who has only been in Berlin since August. The meeting is indicative of how seriously Berlin is taking the situation, since normally the government's point of view is relayed through subordinates at the Foreign Ministry to the individual ambassadors.


It looks as if the Germans noticed that reassurances were NOT given concerning spying on Merkel in the past.
On edit: Very interesting tidbit from another FAZ article: when it was asked about spying on Cameron, the US DID explicitly state he wasn't spied upon in the past.

Eine Sprecherin des amerikanischen Nationalen Sicherheitsrats sagte unterdessen, die Vereinigten Staaten würden die Kommunikation des britischen Premierministers Cameron nicht überwachen. Auf Nachfrage äußerte die Sprecherin, man habe Camerons digitale Kommunikation auch in der Vergangenheit nicht überwacht.


I'd say it's now official that Merkel's phone WAS spied on.

There will also be a special session of the Parliamentary Oversight Committee this afternoon:

Der Vorsitzende des Gremiums, Thomas Oppermann (SPD), kündigte am Donnerstag an, er habe für 14 Uhr eine Sitzung der Runde einberufen. „Wer die Kanzlerin abhört, der hört auch die Bürger ab“, sagte Oppermann.„Die Überwachungstätigkeit der NSA ist völlig aus dem Ruder gelaufen und befindet sich offenbar jenseits aller demokratischen Kontrolle.“

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/lauschangriff-auf-die-kanzlerin-auswaertiges-amt-bestellt-amerikanischen-botschafter-ein-12631622.html
NSA surveillance is totally unhinged, is my best translation of what I put in bold...

Some may say this all is a storm in a glass of water, but consider:

1) The EU has come up with a privacy directive that makes it illegal for companies (like Google or Facebook) to hand over data to third parties
2) The EU has voted to stop cooperating on the exchange of financial data out of the SWIFT system

What the NSA is doing is undermining your security, not enhancing it.
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After the phone call: "Hot Water: German Foreign Minister Summons US Ambassador" (Original Post) BelgianMadCow Oct 2013 OP
du rec. xchrom Oct 2013 #1
My Father told me something that I think applies here Savannahmann Oct 2013 #2
The list of heads of friendly states being spied upon is growing long BelgianMadCow Oct 2013 #3
+1 nt Live and Learn Oct 2013 #5
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Oct 2013 #4
More high level EU reactions, wow BelgianMadCow Oct 2013 #6
The NSA is spying on everyone all over the world. fasttense Oct 2013 #7
Was nobody paying attention when the PNAC crew said "full spectrum dominance" bobduca Oct 2013 #9
Totally agree with your bottom line there... ReRe Oct 2013 #8
 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
2. My Father told me something that I think applies here
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 05:52 AM
Oct 2013

He told me to never do anything that I couldn't justify. If I break the rules, I should have a damned good reason. For example, if I break a car window, there better be someone trapped inside who needs help and the only way to access the inside of the car is the extreme action. Then I could stand up and say yes I broke the window, but here's why.

We are taking actions we can only justify with the most extreme stretches of imagination, and only generally. Yes we intercepted 70 million phone calls in France in one month, but we had a good reason, we were concerned that the French would not vote for sanctions on Iran. Yes we listened to the phone calls of prominent European Politicians, but we had a good reason, we were suspicious of her intentions for an upcoming summit. Besides we have to do this to prevent terrorism and all that sort of thing.

That is literally the excuse we gave Brazil for our spying. We were helping to protect Brazil from Terrorism and Drug Lords by spying on them. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/24/brazils-president-tells-un-that-nsa-spying-violates-human-rights

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
3. The list of heads of friendly states being spied upon is growing long
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 05:59 AM
Oct 2013

Brazil
Mexico
Belgium (we didn't make a lot of noise)
France
Germany

Consider how much money you can make if you have that kind of access. The potential for abuse is huge.

And you made a good point. It's not just the spying, it's the total lack of credible reasons for it. That could have worked to explain spying on Iran maybe, but all these leaders? The terra terra excuse isn't working anymore, over here.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
6. More high level EU reactions, wow
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 06:59 AM
Oct 2013
EU justice commissioner Viviane Reding told Bild Online "We now need big european data protection against big listening ears"

EU-commissioner for internal affairs Michel Barnier, said to the BBC "Enough is enough, the trust in the USA is shocked"

Hannes Swoboda, Fraction Leader of the Social Democrats in the EU parliamant said the EU would do good to not just revisit the SWIFT-treaty with the US, but also other treaties that deal with data protection. He also said he couldn't imagine the case of Merkel was an exception and suspects the NSA is doing this sytematically.


All snipped from this article on FAZ, in german. Translation mine.

And on edit, so as not to look like selfkicking:

1) Hollande and Merkel had an unnanounced private meeting before the EU summit in which they discussed the issue.
2) The german Attorney General is looking into the matter
From Sueddeutsche
 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
7. The NSA is spying on everyone all over the world.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 07:32 AM
Oct 2013

Just imagine what a cache of blackmail info just ripe for the picking they have on everyone. I bet the NSA corporate contractors are just quietly handing over all the incriminating info to top NSA officials -- sure. Ever wonder why so many politicians are willing to play patty cake with corporations????

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
8. Totally agree with your bottom line there...
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 08:43 AM
Oct 2013
K&R

... to boot, it's a breach of all those country's sovereignty. We're gonna' get it one of these days. We're acting more and more like a certain fascistic country back around 75 years ago.
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