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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStudent Fires AR-15 Mounted on Chino Police Motorcycle, Injuring 3
http://ktla.com/2013/10/23/3-students-hurt-when-cops-gun-discharges-at-school-safety-demo/#axzz2ieWr9h8WTwo students were taken to local hospitals Wednesday after a student fired a police rifle during an officers drug-awareness presentation at a Chino elementary school, authorities said.
A student pulled the trigger on an AR-15 that was mounted on a police motorcycle that was on display during an event for students, according to Tamrin Olden, a spokeswoman for the Chino Police Department.
The rifle was secured in the mount on the motorcycle during the incident, Olden said at an evening news conference. The child did approach the mounted rifle.
Two students were taken to local hospitals for minor injuries after the 11:14 a.m. incident, Olden said.
More at link.
WTF! I don't know anything else to say
Aristus
(66,389 posts)misuse and mishandling by civilians...
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Here's one more, soon to be forgotten negative against such feelings.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The 15-yr-old is most likely unschooled in gun safety. The LEO in this situation has a lot of explaining to do.
IveWornAHundredPants
(237 posts)The world is a dangerous place. I'm not sure you really appreciate that. The time it takes to prepare the gun for firing might have meant life or death in a sudden lawbreaking situation at that school. The risk and the injuries sustained by the students (MINOR injuries!) are simply the price we pay for this necessary vigilance.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Loaded AR 15 in a school.... and you defend this?
kcr
(15,317 posts)You have to be joking.
IveWornAHundredPants
(237 posts)I sometimes try to channel the thoughts of the gun-loving folk - to walk a mile in the other fellow's moccasins, so to speak. I myself dislike guns, can't understand the appeal at all, and am completely mind-boggled that such a rifle should be anywhere near a school, much less ready to fire.
kcr
(15,317 posts)FLyellowdog
(4,276 posts)Such as " ".
Bandit
(21,475 posts)I am not afraid and I do not carry a weapon, let alone one that is locked and loaded..
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)How long does it take?
IveWornAHundredPants
(237 posts)Remedial gunsmanship courses are available in your state and or township.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Any faster than an AR-15? I am unaware of "gunmanship" courses for popguns. From your experience, which are the best ones?
IveWornAHundredPants
(237 posts)Or, if you live in Van Zandt County, Texas, you might try Jim Lynch of Tactical and Defensive Texas. There's Fred Peterson in Winona, MN, and Eugene Kenny in New Haven, Connecticut. No doubt there is equally enlightening instruction available all over the country.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)If you leave the magazine out, safety off, and have the bolt locked in the open position, you can insert a mag and hit the bolt release in about 5 seconds.
If you have the magazine out, the safety on, and the bolt closed; you have to insert the magazine, manually cycle the bolt, and flip the safety to fire, so about 10 secs
To get the rifle out of any the locked rigs I have seen on motorcycles, maybe 15 secs, if you have the key.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)NickB79
(19,253 posts)So, you can have a full mag in the weapon, but the bolt locked back.
It takes less than a second to hit that release with your index finger, not even requiring you to take your hand off the gun, let the bolt slam forward, and you're ready to go.
That loud "click" you hear after he loads a new magazine right around 0:14 was the bolt release letting go and chambering a round.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Response to IveWornAHundredPants (Reply #6)
frylock This message was self-deleted by its author.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)mounted on an event display???
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Historic NY
(37,451 posts)but I still think its crazy. Some better than others. I wonder which type it was?
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Here is someone who probably had more firearms training than ANYONE here on DU.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The average police officer (not a SWAT member or suchlike) will receive solid but still pretty basic training in shooting and firearms security in their academy. After that, they may not get anything but the occasional refresher and their once or twice a year qualifying. Compared to any reasonably serious shooter (and there are many on DU, myself included), that's nothing.
Incidents like that aren't a matter of amount or degree of training. To do something like that idiot did violates basic safety and security principles you learn on the very first day of any firearms training course. More advanced training isn't going to be about basic firearms security...that's 101 stuff.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)You couldn't be more wrong, most cops only fire their weapons once or twice a year for their annual qualification, otherwise, the gun usually stays in the holster or the shotgun stays in the mount.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)He knew his way around a gun. Most big cities train their cadets to know their weapons.
That being said, accidental shootings were not uncommon
One guy blew a hole in the ground inches from his foot by re-holstering his gun wrong
This was a seasoned officer
Packerowner740
(676 posts)And why the hell were they loaded on display?
Insanity!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and hate groups.
Not saying it's right.
Packerowner740
(676 posts)That's not irresponsible, it's insane.
Maybe we need to go the way of Great Britain and disarm most of our police.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I agree the gun on a motorcycle at an event is really dumb. Then again, so is allowing a gun in someone's pants standing in line at Chuck E Cheese.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)How? You're unarmed.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)My experience is the gun culture is law-abiding only as long as it suits them, and protects their gunz.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Let me guess, you're such a fan of "the law" that if a woman shot a rapist/stalker you would howl for her to be locked away for the maximum sentence allowed by "the law" you want.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Truthfully, if most gun cultists acted like women "afraid of rapists," we wouldn't have a gunz problem.
They usually own one gun, don't use them like the Zimmermans or cowboys, don't get all giddy over assault weapons, etc. They don't love their assault rifles, or practice shooting human targets at long distances in case they get a chance to play sniper. They don't brag about being set up to "clear a room," or tell us about their favorite guns for shooting people fleeing a hurricane, as happens in the Gungeon. Nor do they cheer every time a gun owner buys a new gun, shoots someone rummaging around in their carport, etc.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You were called on it and changed the topic.
But no, I would not call for her to be sentenced. But, that is different from typical gun lovers -- like Zimmerman -- walking around with a gun or two strapped to their bodies, ready to shoot an unarmed teenager. It is also different from those who own multiple weapons, carry them in public, practice shooting targets that resemble humans, promote them, support NRA backed laws (either as a member or, free-rider), applaud more gun sales and laxer gun laws, etc.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Are you an NRA member, or cheer when they get some lax law enacted by bribing legislators or threatening them?
Do you think bullies like Zimmerman are murderers or intimidators?
Do you think mass shootings, kids shooting themselves/others with daddy's precious, bullies carrying guns, bigots arming up, guns being stolen from folks like US Representative Ellmers, and worse, are just the price we have to pay so yahoos can walk around with guns in our society and amass a weapons cache?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I do not carry, open or concealed, but I support the right of free people to do so at their discretion.
I am not a member of the NRA.
There are no bribes or threats. You just want to criminalize dissenting speech.
You only name Zimmerman because you want to falsely associate all gun owners. There are laws against murder. There are laws defining self-defense. You don't care 1 iota for the deceased. Martin and the rest are just puppet show props for you. If the body count ever slowed it'd be the worse day for your because you wouldn't have a reason to try and control others. You need the dead bodies more than the mass killers do because without them you have nothing.
Your every complaint about the price to pay for gun ownership can be applied alcohol. Every self-destructive, violent or health issue you can name about guns can be said of the alcohol only alcohol harms more people by orders of magnitude. However, alcohol has no use except a recreational one. Guns, on the other hand, are necessary for free people to defend themselves from criminals and people who would deprive them of their basic human rights. I understand you have an extreme phobia. That's your problem. Free people are still free people. You have to accept that.
I answered 6 of your questions. How about you show some spine and answer my 1 question.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You really didn't answer my questions with anything other than right wing "freedom" bull.
Actually, I am not "afraid" of your gunz -- been around them, and the yahoos that love them, all my life. But, I did grow up.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)We've always known this and your sort have always existed and will always exist.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Guns are not quite the same as illness, etc. But never underestimate the lengths gun cultists will go to protect their gunz.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My goodness but you are one big jumble of confusions and erroneous preconceptions.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)attended. What could go wrong?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)safety off at an elementary school. Not likely going to be a school shooting during their presence there. It was terrible judgment on the cops part.
I've been a teacher when the Police came (for sharing time) or we would go to the Police station. It's a big thrill for all involved. Letting little kids get in the Fire Engine, they loved to get in the cab and control the flashers, but the truck wouldn't be running where an accidental shift of the gears or something could propel it out into the street.
Same inside a patrol car, getting "in touch" is part of the whole idea. Never would they allow a child to even touch a hand weapon. Here, it was that drugs are bad and here's what can happen, etc. Cops are your friends when you behave and can protect you when in trouble...that is the message. I'm sure he was proudly showing off their new technology and unlike a hand weapon, it couldn't be holstered.
When someone is robbing my house or my bank or my convenience store, I expect those officers to come fast and packing heat. Again, it was clearly a mistake and great that no one was seriously injured.
We know plenty of good cop/bad cop stories which is not under discussion. These were good guys this day, but one made an error...they are also human. Don't know why that's so hard to grasp.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Thanks for your clarification.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)needs to answer for it.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)by firing them and prohibiting their possessing guns in future.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)bad guys with guns
Oh, wait, that doesn't make any sense
The answer is more good guys with more guns
maybe good guys with hand grenades
flame throwers?
Uh
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)hatrack
(59,587 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Since none of the students turned a key to start up the motorcycle, the cop must have had the good sense to remove it before putting the motorcycle on display.
Maybe it would have helped to clear the chamber before putting the AR-15 with the motorcycle on display. And maybe it would have helped further to have removed the ammo.
Now they are going to remove the AR-15s from the motorcycles? At a minimum, they should do that when showing off their toys to naturally curious teenagers.
ileus
(15,396 posts)When doing these types of events. Or at the very least locking the bolt back without a mag in place.
dairydog91
(951 posts)Storing it with the magazine removed and no round in the chamber would be a basic safety measure, and he could have loaded the weapon in less than 5 seconds had he somehow encountered a need for it.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Like this.
He's the only one professional enough to carry a Glock 40.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)these days. I had no idea. I'm gonna have to get up to speed.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)made a point to say how stupid the kid was who pulled the trigger on that weapon.
This story just proves the point that all youth should have some gun safety training.
Of course the gun should not have had a round in the chamber. The idiot student should have been smart enough to NOT pull the trigger.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)The idiot is the adult who took the weapon to a school.
Paladin
(28,265 posts)Nothing like injecting the NRA into the nation's school systems with a cute cartoon figure leading the way. No thanks.
And spare us the predictable blame-the-victim diversionary tactic, OK? The police bring a loaded firearm into a situation involving kids, and you want to shift the blame to the kids? Of course kids are stupid, they're kids. The police should bear full responsibility for this, and heads should roll, career-wise.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)but so is the kid. I knew enough as a 15 year old to NOT pull the trigger of a gun that was unattended. I never mentioned the NRA in my post, why did mention the NRA in your post? I had gun safety training as a youth and the NRA was not a part of it.
Wait a minute, the kid who pulled the trigger is a victim? He committed a crime, he's not a victim.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)but now that you mention it, I agree.
Paladin
(28,265 posts)Sarcasm alert, because it's always needed on gun threads.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Paladin
(28,265 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)The school system had nothing to do with the gun safety training program I went through.
Paladin
(28,265 posts)You're welcome, and....don't mention it.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)You're welcome, and....don't mention it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I think anyone using a chainsaw and/or a ladder should know how to safely use those items.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I think all youth should go through gun safety training. I don't know how old the kid was in this story, probably too young for a thorough gun safety training course, but not too young to be taught to keep his/her hands off guns. I believe everyone should know about gun safety.
There are a lot of 'accidental' gun deaths because people don't know enough about gun safety. There are too many gun deaths because somebody thought a semi-auto gun was unloaded because the magazine was removed.
Logical
(22,457 posts)"I think anyone USING a chainsaw and/or a ladder should know how to safely use those items."
So you think kids using a ladder needs training but kids who never plan on using a gun needs gun safety training?
Look up accidental death causes by type and let me know if you really want to spend time on gun safety. Then you will realize why your suggestion is silly.
There are much better more useful things to teach children.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I think every kid should be told to stay away from chainsaws, and ladders without supervision.
Now, let's leave the chainsaws and ladders behind and speak about the topic of this thread...
Whether or not anyone plans on shooting a gun or not, they should know something about guns and gun safety. I was smart enough in grade school so that I would not have done what this kid did. This kid should have gun safety training when he is 12 years old. As he grows older he might find himself in a situation where someone is handling a gun and he will know what not to do and what to do. Just because I said everyone should be trained in gun safety does not mean they should not be taught anything else. Why would you assume such a ridiculous position?
Logical
(22,457 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)then why did you even read this thread?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)When I was that age, the guns in our home were hanging on the wall, but they were locked with a chain going through the trigger guards. It was not for protection against theft. It was to let our friends know that they could not touch the guns. We already knew that because we knew what our father would have to say if we touched the guns.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)1. This officer had a chambered round in that AR. Assuming that picture of the rifle on the bike is similar to the mounting of the one that was fired. If there was not a round chambered the charging handle could not have been manipulated with the bracket holding the firearm placed where it was. The student would have been unable to chamber a round if that was the case.
2. The safety could have been on. The student may have disengaged the safety as the mount that the firearm was in, does not seem to block the safety from moving. It is a small lever on the left-hand side slightly above and forward of the grip.
3. It is very unwise to transport an AR-15 with a chambered round. Even with the safety on, the firing pin floats freely. So in an impact the firing pin can strike the primer and discharge the chambered round without the trigger being pulled and while the safety is on.
4. Cop was dumb.
5. Cop was really dumb.
6. Have I mentioned the intelligence of the officer?
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)MadAndy
(203 posts)to be more than 1 car length from a semi/full auto rifle? They have body armor, high cap pistols, backup, etc. WTF do we have? If they need them so badly maybe we do too. In any case what kind of stupid mount doesnt have the trigger guard completely enclosed?