if I was rich enough to afford them.

I can't stand them, to be honest. I know it's not PC to admit it, but I really don't care.

Bill Maher is on tonight, my favorite childfree atheist

My second wife (the GREAT one!) never had kids and never wanted any. We've been perfectly happy for 35 years now.

after I already had kids that I really didn't like them much.

Don't get me wrong...I love my kids and grandkids. My kids are 43 and 41. Grandkids are 9, 9, and 12. They are loads of fun. Not so much when they were toddlers, though.

I'm not a baby/toddler/young kid person. It drives me crazy when a toddler/young kid wants to play peek-a-boo (or whatever other kid game) like 600 times in a row.

So yeah...I am a Bad "Nanny".

I am also a Bad "Nanny" because my stepdaughter's 2 1/2 year old daughter has a bad habit of screaming for no reason at the top of her lungs. I know it's not her fault...it's her parents' fault for not starting now to correct her (for example: "We don't scream in the house...use your indoor voice&quot . I'm very sensitive to high pitched noises, and when the family is seated around the dinner table and an air raid siren goes off less than five feet from me, it hurts. I mean literally.

So I guess I'll join the club.

Older kids...yes. Fun!

Little kids...um...no. Keep them until they're halfway civilized...

in a restaurant? That really burns me. Also, I had a screaming child throw some sort of toy that hit me in the head as I was eating-and the mother gave me a dirty look and smart ass answer when I complained. It is the parent's fault-they let their kids run amok in public places and do nothing to control the child. When I see that sort of behavior, I'm very happy I decided not to have any children.

When I said something, the mother got furious and said "So what happened to you to make you hate kids"? I guess that's one of their talking points now because it sounded rehearsed.

In the long run, though. I sort of wanted them a little when I was about 19. But as the possibility came closer to reality, I chickened out entirely. I had grown up as the youngest and never baby sat much. I really wasn't very familiar with kids. My Mom always told us, "In my next life, I'll be a rich Old Maid". She obviously didn't have much of the mother gene either!

Is this some kind of new movement? The raised by wolves parenting method?"

years old. my son was born when i was 19. my friend's son was born 19 months later and my other friend's daughter was born 19 months before my son. never ever did any of them scream or throw tantrums. we went to each others houses and they played. they played in their rooms -- not in the living room. we all lived in 2 bedroom apartments. we took them out to eat and they were well behaved. we took them to the beach in the summer and they sat by the water with their pails and shovels and built sand castles and never bothered us.

i don't know when things changed. a few of my friends had children in later life and it ended our friendship. i'd call them and they'd put the kid on the phone -- just what i wanted -- a babbling kid on the phone when i wanted to talk to my friend.

screaming children in a restaurant or any public place is unacceptable. when i sit down to eat i want to enjoy my meal. just a few weeks ago i was out with a friend for dinner. there was a big table with a whole family and 2 screaming kids. fortunately we were almost finished eating when they came in. i know i would have said something.

i got in an argument a few years ago with a woman in the grocery store. she had 2 kids who were letting out screams. if you were on the other side of the store (and it was large) they could be heard. at one point they were near me and i said "shut up". the woman said "you can't tell my children to shut up". to make a long story short she threatened to call the police which i invited her to do. when i told this story to several of my friends they said "good". most people don't have the balls to say something.

our children never jumped in our beds and woke us up. my nail girl has 1 day off. i asked her if she sleeps in. she said "no -- my son comes in at 7 am and wakes me". the kid is 13. at 13 my son knew how to fix his own breakfast.

well i guess i went off on a rant.

What a nut job.
It was my birthday and we went into this huge Chinese restaurant and chose a booth WAY in the back. Two minutes later (!) a young mom, screaming tot and an older woman came in and walked all the way back and took the booth right in front of us.

Immediately the kid starts howling and I sighed, loudly, and gave her a look. Then she screetched about my wanting her to kill him. The older lady gave me a sympathetic look as we left.
We just got up and walked out.

We're just now reaching the point in my family where all the kids are now tweens, teens and adultish which is great. The younger kids are mature.

They freak me out! I've only held two babies and that was enough. I also do not attend baby showers and all that crap that is expected by conformists..

fortunate in not introducing another child into occasional poverty and a stressful lifestyle.

Little ones - like infants and screaming 2 year olds. I guess they don't want to pay for a babysitter. Sometimes I have to pull out earplugs.

that the last thing I ever wanted to be called was "mama."

Some of us out there just don't want kids. At least now we have a choice that doesn't involve a convent.

did have kids, who always wanted kids, whose very glad I had kids, what irritates me the most is the kids vs nokids wars aspect of this. It often feels as if the two sides each want to totally demonize the other, and prove absolutely for once and for all that the other side is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I have several good friends who never had kids. Also good friends who had them. I also know people who chose very different jobs or parts of the country to live in, and so on.

It's a great big huge diverse world we live in.

My husband and I have his sister, my SIL, over quite frequently due to the demands of my FIL's job and sometimes just because she wants to visit. I'm always delighted to have her. She has enriched my life immeasurably. However, at this point of our lives Lover Boy and I aren't looking for kids of our own and we don't foresee any either. That isn't to preclude the idea completely for all times sake but we we're just not feeling it.

Does this mean we've sort of split the difference? (On the plus side, no diapers.)

as a certified "picky eater" I get people trying to push THEIR favorite foods on me, or giving me crap because I don't eat, or like, the foods that they eat, and love. "You don't like ham?" They will ask, in an outraged voice. As if I have a choice. As if I put some ham in my mouth and chewed it and said "I don't think I will like this."

Or what about not liking somebody else's music? Or TV shows? Or sports?

While I'm sure we can all agree that having kids is somewhat different than what kinds of foods we like, trying to persuade you to like ham when you don't is completely analogous to trying to persuade someone they should have kids. Or shouldn't have kids.

We really do need different kinds of people in this world. As a Kid Person (meaning someone who had kids) I sometimes meet a happily childless person and think, Oh, but you'd make such a wonderful parent! But my opinion -- that you'd make a wonderful parent -- means diddly-squat. What matters if the person actually wants kids or not.

I can think of some very specific non-parents, and can see that they've had perfectly wonderful lives, complete and fulfilled without kids. How can *I* possibly judge and suggest that person should have reproduced?

And on the other side, those who have kids are equally valuable, because if no one had kids there'd be no one to take care of any of us in the nursing home.

about ourselves so we create these wars where everything everybody else does is wrong and everything we do is right.

There's no reason to disparage those who choose differently than yourself.

Search for "breeders" here on DU, and you'll get a ton of hits.

were not in a thread I was responding to, I probably wouldn't point out how disturbed I was by the existence of that sentiment.

Also, I did not read all of the responses in this thread, but of those I did, there was ONE that used the word "breeders." It used the word "non-breeders" too, and seemed to use the terms simply as descriptors of the two sides. There were responses to that comment that were very annoyed at the use of the term "breeders" but made no mention of the use, in the same comment, of the term "non-breeders." That seemed to me like a very selective umbrage.

ETA: I don't mind the term "non-breeder." I didn't breed. It's a fact.

No, it's a response a term of derision coined by those who elect not to have children. As I noted, the term was not used much in this thread, but it's a common pejorative when the subject comes up.

I don't believe that I've ever seen anyone on DU called "selfish" simply for not wanting to have children, so I would be interested to read such accusations if someone can point me to them. I have seen people criticized for sentiments along the lines of "I don't want to have children because I want to possess insert expensive material object here instead," but that's a very different statement from "I don't want to have children."


Also, it's super-duper that you don't mind the term "non-breeder," and you are welcome to use that term or any other term for self-description. But when a term of denigration is slapped on you by another party, then it's not the same as embracing a description by your own choice.

PS. You jumped pretty quickly to the flame, there, didn't you?

Obviously, no word is a denigration in itself. I would have thought that it was obvious from context that I was referring to the term "breeder" used in context, where it certainly is a denigration.

for knowing themselves and acting on it rather than meeting society's demands!

Better to be child free and happy than to have children and everyone is miserable!

Many of the child free people I know are very caring and giving. Many of the people with children are misers of their time and money.

Heard that since I was a teenager. Now at 35...Nope, no change yet!

That is, I did change my mind. I contemplated a life with children when I was in my early 20s. And then I matured and grew out of that silly notion!

Congratulations for making it to 35...my SO and I are in our 40s and childless. It's awesome and no, we won't change our minds. I think a lot of breeders are envious or the superior lifestyle of non-breeders and just want to drag us down into the suckage they have to endure. Yeah, I know quite a few who are happy with their brood, but also others who aren't very happy at all and often wish they had never had children.

That makes it sound like people who have kids live only to have kids.

Surprisingly, many people with kids have rich, full, lives - despite their parental status.

I'm one of those people who wanted kids since I was 5 years old. So I had 4 of them, and I enjoyed every single minute. I did live only to have kids and there's nothing wrong with that either - I find it fulfilling. Yes, I even enjoy hanging out with my teenagers. Now, I'm no permissive 'friend-parent', my kids are all honors kids, all very well-behaved (to the point of people gushing about them to me, so it's not just me being 'oh my kids are great' while they aren't) and I worked hard at raising them properly. Now that they are getting older, I am pursuing other interests. It's not as if when you have kids they don't grow up and move out...they do and rather quickly I might add. During a lifetime, only about 1/4 is spent raising kids and it's only a small percentage of that time where you are required to be around 24/7.

Anyway, my brother and SIL have decided not to have kids. And I think that's great - it's what they want so it's for the best. I don't put them down because of it and I would hope they weren't out there calling me a 'breeder' behind my back. Why people have to put others down to make themselves feel better I'll never know.

I hope I didn't imply that enjoying having children is a bad thing. My parents had 8 of them.

And while you say you "did live only to have kids", I think you're selling yourself short to put it that way. You live(d) to love and nurture your kids - not just give birth to them, which is what the ugly term "breeders" implies, imo.

Kudos for having the family that you wanted, and for enjoying all things associated with that!

p.s. I now understand your username.

It's like a full time job, but thankfully I have helpers now that my older 2 are teens.
Thanks for your post.

Your lifestyle choice is neither superiour nor inferior. It is just another lifestyle choice. If you don't want kids then don't have them. I won't critize you. But I will not accept your arrogant judgement that my life is inferior for being a father.

I often see the term "breeders" used here on DU in a totally derogatory and insulting way. It implies that those who don't breed are somehow superior.

As you said, it's a lifestyle choice.

I also like to point out to the "non-breeders" that if everyone were like them, there would be no one at all to finance their social security payments down the road.

....doesn't have a very wide circle of acquaintances. My wife and I are blessed with two great kids, but we would never disrespect anyone's decision to not have children.

I couldn't have led the amazing life I've led if I'd had kids and I'm pretty sure I would be pissed off about that today.

stepdaughters, one has a son who is late 20s, another has a little girl about 2 1/2, and the third has no children.

Not from lack of trying, though. She and her hubby have suffered two miscarriages since 2009.

BUT...

Since they're childless, they can travel. They have been to Alaska and Hawaii, and took a Mediterranean cruise this past August.

They have a little dog they either take with them, or leave with her hubby's parents.

They've done some really awesome things, and they seem happy enough with their lives...both well paid, beautiful home, lots of family.

Who knows...they may decide at some point to try again. Or not.

But I think if they do try again and succeed, at least they'll have done lots of really neat stuff

but you can still travel with kids. There are neither laws nor physical restrictions imposed upon parents.

We travelled lots and lots with our kids. Did really awesome things with them. Those who think that having kids mean you can't possibly go anywhere until the kids are grown are wrong.

Dogs? Ugh. But that's my opinion.

But not my call or my business for others' lives.

... but don't see that there's a life without kids that benefits society just as much and sometimes more

That those who had kids were being selfish.

especially when the only kids they really seem to want are their own biological ones.

To carry on their own genes.

I admire people who adopt children...or at least, try to, even if they don't succeed. It means they care less about making little carbon copies of themselves and more about giving a needy child a loving home.

My first ,a girl is from my second marriage.did not get to raise her because of her mom.got two sons for free in my fourth marriage and one more whom I fathered.they are all great,and grown now.love them and their kids.had I by chance not had them,it would have made no difference.they were never in my way or I in theirs.kind of like close friends.

Some of us even have "Fur Kids".

Not even the same species as ourselves.

Love comes in many forms

As long as there is love.children or not.

And I know another couple who kept having kids, one after another because they were trying for twins, yet were dirt poor and could barely manage what they had

I told my wife that and she said, "yeah damn right I'm selfish." She doesn't understand why anyone would bring the cost and burden kids upon themselves, voluntarily.

I'm glad for people who have made the right choice for them. If someone actually said to your face "you're selfish for not having kids".. I have to wonder what the fuck is up with that person.

...anyway, the proper response (beyond 'screw you') is; "yeah, and I sleep in on the weekends. Next Saturday think of me when you're woken up at 6:30 AM by a pair of tiny feet jumping on your head, demanding cheerios"

She wasn't being mean or anything.

By the time they were four or so they knew they could help themselves to cereal.

I believe raising kids to be self-sufficient as soon as possible is a very important aspect of parenting.

Still, it's a rare parent indeed who won't have at least some inkling as to what that sentence is about, IMHO.

that someone else has chosen for themselves, so that makes me selfish?

It's like saying I'm selfish for not being a lumberjack. Or Episcopalian. Or a surfer.

I just don't get the thinking behind that one.

Selfishness may well be in the eye of the beholder.

"Your father and I probably shouldn't have had children..."

I salute anyone who is smart enough to understand this before they had children...



Tikki

It's a horrible thing for a child to hear from a parent! I'm 59 and still trying to heal.

and it doesn't help build self-esteem one bit.

Stay strong my friend...



Tikki

How did that work out in therapy?

Here's where I got lucky or just smart…


Tikki
unconditional loves heals a lot...

what I would do when I grew up.

Fortunately I never got any serious flack from it, and luckily my brother gave my mom the grandchildren she wanted. And I get to hang with his kids who I adore and am very close with.

I love kids but never wanted that lifestyle and responsibility, though I know and have been told I would be a great mother.

what the entire discussion should be about.

"I want to have/ I have kids"

"I don't want to have/ I don't have kids"

"What about them (fill in sports team name here)"

While having or not having kids is somewhat different from a career choice, it's somewhat similar. You're a bus driver? Great! I teach high school English? Great! You're a doctor? Great! And so on.

them rather than adopting the ones already in the world who need homes.

I'd be like... uh, who the fuck are you?

you are pathetic or what's wrong with you? I overheard a man at work say that women who don't have kids aren't really women.

I have seen men online call women without kids useless eaters.

What do they call men who don 't have kids?

As someone who did have kids, I can get as totally infuriated at crap like this as if I didn't have them. Listen up! (Directed at those idiot men online) You have no business judging anyone else's childbearing choices. Period.

I don't want kids. When I'm on a date and my date says she wants kids, I don't see her anymore.

I'm selfish, but at least I'm honest enough to admit it.

Really, no point in wasting someone's time (not to mention your own) in a relationship where there's an issue that would be non-negotiable.

I was living with a younger guy for a while, way back some years ago, after my kids were already pretty much grown.

He said he would like kids someday.

I didn't. Wasn't even sure I could have any more.

The relationship ended...quite rightly.

People need to be honest with each other.

in my 20s and 30s. Met lots of guys who wanted kids. That never lasted long, lol. Stick to your guns, there are more and more women who don't want kids. It's so damn expensive, for one thing. My brother and his wife didn't want kids. They can afford an apt close to the beach and take amazing vacations every year.

You are simply seeing an incompatible trait. In my mind that is the right thing to do.

Hubby #1 wanted kids, I told him from the time we met (we were co-workers long before we dated) that I didn't ever want kids. Ever ever ever. When we started dating and getting serious, I told him he'd probably better consider if he wanted to move ahead, since he wanted them and I didn't. His response? "I'll change your mind".

I suppose part of his unrealistic expectations stemmed from the fact that his nieces adored me, and vice versa. I had three young nephews at the time and saw them frequently, had them to my house for weekends and just had a blast with them. I'm a big overgrown child, but I never felt like I wanted to have any of my own, and I knew that from the age of 5 or 6. Irrespective of that, children have always been drawn to me (I think its my round face and big eyes. I think I look rather cartoonish in a way, like a giant blond ladybug as someone once described me).

Anyway, about a year and a half into our marriage, he got more and more aggressive about his point of view, and would hide my BC pills often. That was it. I knew I had to leave because this wasn't what either of us wanted.

He found another woman and got her pregnant before we were even divorced. Sadly, the union produced two autistic children.

And even though on one level nieces and nephews can be thought of as a pre-cursor to children, and as wonderful as they can be, if you don't want children you don't want children.

At least you were honest from the beginning.

I've been both an aunt and a mother. Both are wonderful, at least if you want motherhood which I did. But when you don't want children, you shouldn't let anyone guilt you into them, so good for you for living your life as you want.

My daughter are 19 and 14.... so I'm probably less than a decade away from not having them around anymore.


I know that personally, my life would be far less rewarding if I hadn't had them.... so I'm very glad I did.



But it is very hard. Especially emotionally. Financially, you always figure out a way to get by. But the emotional strain of the teenage years has been very hard.


But I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.


I also wouldn't begrudge others making a different life choice. Anybody who doesn't want to be a parent absolutely should NOT be one.


I will say though... the thought that a "part of me" (my DNA at least) will live on after I'm gone is a pretty cool thing.

Now 26 and 30, so they're about a decade ahead of your daughters.

I basically loved almost every minute of having them.

Now that the "Year from Hell" with our younger son is nearly a decade ago, it's even easier to look back fondly.

I think the main thing I would say to any parent or prospective parent is that things change constantly. When each one is a baby, the change is constant, almost daily. It does slow down and the challenges change as they grow up. The challenges are very different if you have girls compared to if you have boys.

If you want to have children it is, in my opinion, worth it.

If you don't want to have children, don't let ANYONE convince you that you're wrong.

Nowadays, I just wish my sons would call me more often.

They're cheaper but there's no way to train a cat. The cat trains you.

a kid is a lot easier than a cat.
I was in charge of my son.
I can't say that about cat.

I have given up trying to train cats. The one we have now is training us, and doing a good job of it.

But it's hard to finish a whole one.

lots of salsa

That's a common one.

I've always wondered how I can behave selfishly toward someone that does not exist?

Growing up, my parents three times took in children we knew to live with us for up to two years while their parents were going through rough times - primarily divorce or homelessness issues. They treat my brother's and my step-children and step-grand-daughter as if they were blood, setting up education funds and providing support for things like music lessons and other training options if the children were interested in arts.

They raised us with the understanding that a child under your care is your responsibility and deserves care, love and attention, whether born to you or not, whether a long-term situation or short.

While I don't have the personal "drive" to have a child; if I had the resources of time and energy, or saw an immediate need, I would take one (or two/three, if it were a family situation) in to help him or her become as complete a person as possible.
We've already been surrogate parents to several of the kidlet's friends, and they've all turned out okay, which is pretty much all one could ask of one's kid.

Haele

living a life that suits you. What I object to is those who come sermonizing that those who have chosen to have children are somehow selfish and worthy of contempt. Or better still those who view children as malevolent alien beings. I don't understand that notion at all since we were all once children. I'd like to see some of the same respect for those who have taken on the responsibility of raising the generations to come.

Generally, it is the childfree who are called "selfish" and "worthy of contempt". I don't believe in sermonizing anyone, personally, it's on of the most irritating things a person can do. I do see a lot of contempt thrown at folks who do not choose to follow the typical life path of having kids, though, and I would imagine what you have experienced is at least coming from some push back against that.

it is a choice. Reproductive rights begins and ends with respecting the choices we all make. I feel fortunate to have birthed two fine children and to have raised them to become responsible and caring adults. I now watch my grandchildren growing. This choice has been a rewarding one for me. Whatever path someone else chooses should be just as satisfying for them. I

Pressure and patronizing putdowns toward childless women are unfair, but then some have to turn it into putdowns of all the work those of us raising children do. What childless people may not get is that, while it _seems_ like our culture is saturated with praise of parenting (and mothering in particular), in reality there are so many ways we do not get support for an ongoing, 24/7, exhausting, radically life-changing job that really never ends.

So, sorry, but every time I see one of these threads I think about everything I've done to bring two strong, really cool contributing females in the world, not just without support but _fighting_ conflicting demands day in and day out, and how that's trivialized or invalidated, as if I'm walking around with sooo much social power because I'm a mother. Bull. I have _less_ social power because of my responsibilities, not more. And a helluva lot less economic independence.

What really burns me is that (mostly) women in high-powered careers often don't have a real choice to be mothers too. They think they have a choice, but if you look at academic women (and the ones with tenure), the ones who stick around long enough to get tenure usually have to forego children (this is statistically backed up by NSF-funded studies). That should be a choice they make because they seriously don't want children, not because society doesn't support mothering and because exploitative economic conditions require 80 hour workweeks. That's a bunch of intellectual women who couldn't pass their gifts onto their own kids because of sexism and neoliberal working conditions, but may have seriously wanted to have that experience otherwise.

I gave that up for kids, and I'd do it again, but it would have been nice to have had a meaningful chance to have both.

families.

Taking time off to take care of kids should not be an automatic ding on peoples' resumes, family leave policies should be more akin to as they are in Germany or France. Flex time should be the norm, rather than the exception.

It's ironic (but not really) that the people who like to puff around the political landscape with noise about "family values" are the folks who, if given their druthers, would roll back progressive, good government regulations to the robber baron era when 8 year olds were regularly being sent off to work engine lathes.

I do think this was one of the dirty secrets behind the right-wing tantrum around the ACA. The power brokers know that when workers aren't terrified to lose their jobs over their kids' health insurance, they're harder to control AND underpay.

parents, most specifically for mothers, has been making me crazy for at least thirty years.

Among the reasons I persisted in being a stay-at-home Mom (often considered the lowest of the low) is because I could clearly see at least thirty years ago (when my oldest was born) that there was almost no support for the working mother. Even while there was constant and on-going cheerleading for women who had jobs. Well, a job is nice, and a career can be even better, but when the woman winds up handling everything involved in childcare, I'm sorry but I'll opt out of one part of that rat race.

When my children were young, there were times when my husband wanted me to go to work. I'd patiently explain that since I'd never had a career path, that any job I could take would cover child care, so why work just to pay for someone else to take care of my kids? I do understand that women at a much higher level of pay can cover child care and still have money left over, so for them going to work may be the right decision.

Back around the time my first son was born, 1982, it was common to say, Why have a kid only to let someone else raise your child? A few years later that question totally disappeared. I can recall, around 1986 being somewhere, and a woman who was expecting her third child, fussing about the fact that her total childcare costs were now going to be more than she earned. When I suggested that she instead stay home with the children, she stared at me as if I were suddenly speaking Martian.

It's a completely individual decision, of course, but sometimes staying home to raise children makes economic sense.

Wow...

She was using that reference to say there is no reason for her to do something just because she can. She was not actually comparing the two.

I am 74 and was married at 16 and my husband was 17. I eloped from Florida to Georgia when in the '50s, you did not need proof of age. I was very naive about birth control and there was no pill then. So I had one child at 18 and the other one at 23. My husband and I divorced 9 years later.

I did not want any kids at all, but they happened. They are adults now, and I am glad that I had them because they are going to have to take care of me in my old age where I'm at now.

In China, many children are being kidnapped so there is someone to provide for their senior care. Don't expect future care if you haven't somehow invested.

Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 08:55 AM - Edit history (2)

If you have a child, you nurture them through diapers, sleepless nights, educating them, watching out for them, and training them up right.

Someday (if you are lucky) you will be old. You may not be able to work or have sufficient income to support yourself, or be safe living alone. In many cultures the *only* people available to take care of you would be your children.

If you are unable to have children, or choose not to have children (a relatively recent option for many), your options involve having "extended" family watch out for you, or paying someone.

But having children as a "retirement plan" is also (in the United States) not a guarantee you will be "looked after" depending on where people move and the relationships that develop. In other cultures on the planet, the idea of "retirement homes" is completely shameful because *of course* the young people look after their elders. I believe China is one of those places, and one of the issues with raising girls is that traditionally they "belong" to their husband's family, which means someone with only daughters has no one to care for them in their old age.

I also don't think it's very realistic.

now in certain circles that women don't make the same money as men because of "life choices."

It really isn't a choice.

I just watched a bit of court testimony where they badgered a daughter for taking money from her (accused murderer) Dad - when it was her (murdered) Mom who wrote the check. The lawyer had the nerve to say- well, your Mom -with six - eight kids!!!- didn't work. People really think that way all the time! It's crazy.

In China, it is the sons. My friends from the Middle East have a combination, and simply cannot comprehend the idea of "not taking care of your parents as they age." My family also has a history of taking care of our elderly, which I am rightly proud of - my great aunt outlived both her husband, and two sons, and my parents stepped up to take care of her. It took a lot of effort (Alzheimer's) but she was a very sweet woman; I am not ignorant of the amount of work required. Eventually, for her own safety, she had to stay at a secure facility (she would wander off and no one could be aware of her 24/7), but she was still an active part of our lives until her death from cancer.

and that of quite a few friends. It's really not work people are given credit for. We paid a live in because we could't bear how nursing homes used restraints on their AZ patients. Mom passed just as the money was running out and we'd have had to get her in a facility. Just managing the whole care thing was a part time job. And the men in the family wanted no part of it.

As I said, I know different cultures handle it differently; in China, traditionally (as I understand it) the daughter-in-law is expected to do the major portion / belongs to her husband's family. (If you don't all live near each other, it kind of makes sense - we really take transportation for granted!)