are Reporting News. Do you think we should do away with Whistle Blowers and that Journalists should do what the NYT journos did back during the Bush days, suppress big news stories to protect Governments? I thought we were all outraged when the NYT 'sat on the Gov. Spying story'?

Have Democrats flip flopped on Bush Policies? Should they? Because you know these were policies instituted by Bush.

I am completely opposed to Bush Policies, always was and always will be for all the reasons that should have been apparent when we tried to stop them from being implemented.

There are still too many Republicans running our Security Agencies. Do you trust them more now than you did when Bush president?

I remember when we found out about Bush's spy programs involving the telecoms the left was so outraged it was hard to find any discussion of anything else. This time there were actual defenders of the same practices on the left. It makes sense, either something is wrong or is it is not.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion --

SOME of the NSA's capabilities and operations are legitimate. That's a fact. When this story first broke it was about the NSA's wholesale sweeping-up of Americans private conversations without probable cause. That is a whistle that has to be blown. But it now seems that some of what is being revealed has legitimate purpose.

I am not asking for silence; I'm asking for discretion. Pick and choose what to release and what to leave secret. Yes, sometimes nations -- even the US -- have a right to secrets (otherwise there wouldn't be the flap over Merkie's phone). What they don't have a right to is the privacy of peaceable citizens.

I want the violation of civil liberties to stop. These latest revelations are hurting that effort just as the killing of innocent civilians is counter-productive to ending terrorism.

If they had not overstepped their bounds then there would be no problem. They brought this on themselves. I hope it stays in the news. Maybe someone will stand up and say enough.

How is your post relevant or even helpful?

Was it July 16th? July 30th? August 12th? September 17th? Which ones "were" vital and which ones weren't?

"Were" in the context of my statement means "having occurred in the past" not "no longer useful."

I have and continue to support the earliest Snowden/Greenwald revelations.

August too? How early is early?

I spoke to the principles I value in the OP and reiterated them in Post #2 --

Or is it not included in your list of good principles?

right'. He is a journalist with a big news story. What is the right way for a journalist to publish a big news story?

It would be as if a reporter writing about the fire bombing of Hamburg then went on to publish details of the upcoming Normandy landings.

"Gentlemen don't read each each others mail..."

Quite the contrary actually. The NSA took advantage of new technology, starting under Bush/Cheney, that the law had not yet caught up with and has been all over the world invading the private lives of civilians, in South America, in Europe, Asian and the PEOPLE of these countries are outraged, as we would be, to learn that a foreign government has been spying on their personal phone and email records.


This conversation came up over eight years ago when they caught doing it here and what did Congress do? They changed to law to make their criminal violations, which were acknowledged under that law at the time, retroactively to legalize their crimes.

THIS TIME, they went too far and now what should have happened ten years ago, is finally about to happen. There are discussion of instituting International Laws to stop ALL governments from these kinds of abuses.

If it had not been for Snowden and Greenwald, Der Spiegal, the Guardian and other good journalists, this might have taken even longer to achieve.

We NEED laws and since our own Government has abandoned the rule of law, re Wall St Crooks, War Criminals etc, many of us predicted that it would come from outside the US, which is shame. We should have been the LEADERS on this issues of Civil Rights and Liberties. But that is how far we have fallen as far as Moral Authority goes.

Now several countries, S. America eg, are working on not using any browsers from the US and creating their own internet.

Microsoft and other American corps are losing business all over the world.

This is GOOD for the people, not so good for unethical Corps or the architects of the these policies, Dick Cheney eg. It should have been spearheaded by our Government, instead we are now viewed as the rogues who made it necessary to begin talking about reigning in these people who are violating laws and morals.

story? I asked because you stated that Greenwald wasn't doing it right.

What is he doing that isn't right? I'm glad you do not oppose the revelations. I wish the US had done this themselves, after the Bush Spying Revelations and we would not be hearing about any of this now.

Why do so many people forget our accomplishments? Is it because it happened during the Election Fever of 2008?

Bush's policy was surveillance with effectively no oversight. Because of the outrage that began on the Left, there was a Congressional hearing that eventually led to new Laws. Did these new laws go far enough? I don't think so. But, the thing to remember is that these are NOT Bush's policies and they ARE legal.

I support changing the Law. I do NOT support blaming Obama or any other administrative official. There is no blame, and if anything Snowden's revelations demonstrate that.

Change the Law.

They COVERED FOR HIM. The law he broke at that time allowed for compensation for victims of the spying. Millions of Telecom customers were suing under that law to collect that compensation.

Congress decided to MAKE LEGAL Bush's criminal spying, RETROACTIVELY. That wiped out all the lawsuits instantly. Iow, the rescinded the old law, which was not great, and added an amendment making his illegal activities LEGAL and weakening the law that was in effect at the time.

The FISA Bill. How could any Progressive Dem forget the outrage that once again, the Rule of Law was not only NOT applied, it was CHANGED to protect the criminals, Bush/Cheney.

Had Congress prosecuted the criminals under the EXISTING law at that time, had they allowed all those lawsuits to go forward, we would not be hearing ANY revelations of further abuses, which were guaranteed once Congress gave them the Green Light and Republicans were left, or put in charge of our Security Orgs, from Snowden or Greenwald or anyone else.

But Congress protected them. The Big Security Contractors were once again free to receive funding under the guise of 'terror', and we are where we are which should surprise no one. Now outside influences are going to pass laws and the US lost the opportunity to take control of the new technology and its abuses.

For the opposing viewpoints on the subject.

Explain, please.

I fully support Greenwald's revelations and hope he lifts each rock in turn to expose the crap this country is doing in our names.

Lets say the NSA has your number..

Do we make it so that all your NSA info is posted on the internet? That NSA posts on your Facebook page what you are up to every day?