That said - don't our actions in spying on other nations leaders constitute more of a problem than the fact that those actions were revealed? Isn't you aregument like saying "Look if we don't get caught there's no crime."

But there is a crime, isn't there?

Bryant

Embarrassing actions might have been a better term than crime.

Bryant

True heroes in my book.

out of control and this is what you're worried about? The Iraq War and Abu Ghraib did more damage to the USA than a million Snowdens or Greewalds could ever have done.

Blame the real criminals, not the whistleblowers.

Why not just dump all the info at once instead of the slow strategic leaks? I'm not arguing in favor of the NSA. It's clear they are completely out of control. But Greenwald and Snowden are creating a huge mess in foreign relations and damaging this country even further.

Edward Snowden, the source of National Security Agency leaks, has insisted that he decided to become a whistleblower and flee America because he had no faith in the internal reporting mechanisms of the US government, which he believed would have destroyed him and buried his message for ever.

One of the main criticisms levelled at Snowden by the Obama administration has been that he should have taken up an official complaint within the NSA, rather than travelling to Hong Kong to share his concerns about the agency’s data dragnet with the Guardian and other news organisations. But in an interview with the New York Times, Snowden has dismissed that option as implausible.

“The system does not work,” he said, pointing to the paradox that “you have to report wrongdoing to those most responsible for it.” If he had tried to sound the alarm internally, he would have “been discredited and ruined” and the substance of his warnings “would have been buried forever”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/18/edward-snowden-us-would-have-buried-nsa-warnings-forever

In other news : Obama 'not told of Merkel phone bugging'

Gen Keith Alexander never discussed alleged operations involving Chancellor Angela Merkel, an NSA spokeswoman said.

>

&quot General) Alexander did not discuss with President Obama in 2010 an alleged foreign intelligence operation involving German Chancellor Merkel, nor has he ever discussed alleged operations involving Chancellor Merkel," NSA spokeswoman Vanee Vines said.

An NSA source told the paper that Obama had not stopped the operation, and had wanted to know all about Mrs Merkel as "he did not trust her".

>

The statement does not make it clear whether the president was informed of the bugging operation by other means.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24698142

are on par with the climate deniers and debt ceiling deniers.

"If you can't do the time don't do the crime"

The NSA has broken international understandings and, worse, in the name of cost saving used inadequate background checks. Other countries use similar tactics but have not yet been caught by the press. The fault lies squarely with the NSA.

what may have been left of "our" reputation given the years of foreign interference our alphabet spook agencies have perpetrated.

Relations will improve. Blaming the whistleblowers is not working.

2 men and a women are the destroyers, according to u.

the rule of law. It is that which we foreigners loved most for a very long time - respect for the Constitution and rule of law. You cannot ignore the 4th amendment and then talk about the US reputation.

Security is important but Constitutional law is the foundation of the US reputation across the planet.

do I really need to go on?

then your premise that this has destroyed our reputation doesn't really hold up.

It's a cliché, but "sunshine is the best disinfectant."

... and I don't find it all self-serving.

would not have drawn the necessary attention to the issue. If freedom is to survive - the American people have to know what is going on. Most of the people here who are condemning them are ONLY doing so out of unpatriotic blind partisanship. If this would have been during a Republican administration they would be cheering Snowden and Greenwald on as heroes. Most of the people here who are acting outraged against them are only faking disapproval.

Only when we become honest then people might believe it when we say we believe in human rights.

Most of the world thinks we are either pius fools or liars when it comes to human rights. Snowden and Greenwald have proven them right.

I guess everyone likes the smell of their own brand..

The NSA is out of control, that is true. But, again, this should have been handled in-house.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant, no?

Are you referring to Bush/Cheney?

These men are putting the truth right up in everyone's face, and making it really hard to keep the curtain in place.

then if we clean up our act, we can establish a respectable reputation.

I'm not at all comfortable with what the NSA is doing. If we have these " fragile relationships with other countries" maybe we should be worried about why those relationships are so fragile.

and get away with it...what is to stop others from copycatting their behavior!? None of this would have happened if we would have enforced the laws and brought Cheney and Dubya up on charges. Alas, we shrugged and indirectly gave the green light for destruction. It is the only reason the Cray Cray party shutdown the federal govt - they knew there would be no one to stop them or censor them.

I am less comfortable with people who want to damn the messenger who exposes immoral behavior committed by our government who then sends us, the serf taxpayers, the billion dollar bill.

1) They are not destroying the reputation of the US.
2) Even self serving jackasses can be of use. All citizens of the US will benefit from what they are doing.
3) They are not compromising national security. Might not be helping it, sure as hell aren't hurting it.
4) What they are doing is making us stronger.
5) If a world leader finds out we are tapping their phones and that strains the relationship, then that world leader is a moron to start.
6) The only reputation they are damaging is that between the citizens of the US and our own government.

I'm hearing that the recent revelations might hurt the economy; and if it leads to WW3, we could end up with another draft. Time will tell.

I am dealing with scrambled eggs.

it's that of torturing and killing innocent people all over the world.

Compromising national security? In what way? How is Angela Merkel a threat to our national security? Oh, wait...EVERYTHING is about national security these days. If you spit on the street you're endangering our national security. I'm sick of hearing it!

And please tell me, specifically, how would GG and Snowden have "done things in a way that protected us and made us stronger." Oh, and as if we need to be "stronger". We're already the bully of the world.

I support Greenwald, Snowden and all the rest. If I may quote the odious Bush the Lesser, "Bring it on".

Would you still be making such an assinine argument?