A large and well known river in Egypt to be more specific.

not here of course. No mindless partisanship can be found at DU.

This is wrong and unconscionable.
These so called Christians are taking from the poor to make the rich richer.
I hope they all burn in hell if there is one.
My country is an embarrassment and God knows where it will end.

However, there is the inescapable law of Karma. It may come back around soon, or it may come back around later, but the way they treat their fellow human beings will definitely come back around to them. They will pay in full.

and know the Center-right Democrats who are opening the gates for them.

people invested in denial, but I do think presenting the facts is vital anyway.

the base against the Gang of Nine strategy. Thanks for what you're doing and for refusing to be intimidated by the usual consensus-makers (the Goon Squad).

the 'set up' that Medicare and Social Security are "the main drivers of our debt" "the biggest drain on the economy" blah blah blah that all of the Washington DC/1%ers' spokespeople have been peddling, so the average voter doesn't question that basic (and false) premise.

Really sad that we have arrived at a point in our history where we simply cannot put 100% trust in anything anyone from any party says, but here we are. Also sad that so many find their security in choosing to blindly accept simply because the person talking has a (D) or an (R) behind their name (depending on what they want to believe) rather than using the critical thinking and analytical skills we were (supposed to have been) taught in school to have a discussion that advances the best interests of ALL of us.

Sigh.

They need to be disabused of that premise.

these are the 2 things that are going to completely end the middle class as we know it in this country - and unfortunately it is a bi-partisan effort on behalf of those protecting the 1%. I find it very sad that independent Bernie Sanders is our strongest defense against austerity measures.

elderly and children.

and we are a pubic hair away from SS or medicare cuts.

What
The
FUCK

Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

They're called Democrats. The adjective is Democratic. But they AREN'T Liberals. They are something else that has evolved over the last two decades. Neoliberalism is not Liberal. They don't even like liberals. The cognitive dissonance will stop as soon as you understand this.

Really. Understand. It.

which frankly is what I would prefer. I understand progress, technological society and all that - but we need to remember human beings built and run the machines. If anything we should be giving companies tax breaks for hiring folks over 40 - and if that doesn't provide enough incentive we lower the Social Security age to 50. That should be the threat from the left. Obama stood tough on the government shutdown and he won. He can do this - and we need him to say he is going to protect our most vulnerable (children, disabled, elderly). He can do this if he wants to - he is more than capable.

facts.

but as I said. No mindless partisanship can be found on the S.S. DU. Never ever.

. . . which is to say, wait until it's a done deal and is MUCH harder to do anything about!

lie about anything!"

this sort of Dem has actually repeatedly said that the RW has a good grasp on reality, and we're just delirious nutbars

despite all the links. Unless conjecture and speculation, now constitute "facts."

Why are we allowing these mofos to put a gun to our heads?!?

Good cop convinces you to give it up so that bad cop will take the gun away.

to realize that they're both bad cops working together.

But if you have the gun to your head what else can you do but turn to good cop?
That is why they keep using it, because it works whether you know it is a game or not.

or construct a Third Party.

I see no other way out.

Cause this bullshit will not end by itself...as long as it works they will use it.

but raising the cap would be ok by me.

-Laelth

"OMG, the cuts are coming" post.

I know ... I know ... "and another denial post from a mindless partisan."

One more again ... something "Being on the table, is a far cry from something being, or even something going to be, cut.

happened and that repubs are working for cuts and dems won't take them off the table- as well as even MORE facts about upcoming sequester cuts.

What do you have? NOTHING but exceedingly lame mockery.

Not a fact to be found in YOUR post. just more (yawn) opinion NOT rooted in facts.

Then there are the upcoming next round of sequester cuts. I'm not sure what social programs these will hit. It's my understanding that they're largely to hit defense spending. If there's one thing that close to taboo on Capitol Hill, it's cutting defense. Those cuts will likely be shifted.

What the Next Budget Deal Will Look Like

Official House-Senate budget talks don't start until next week, but already we're seeing some clues CLUESas to what a bipartisan deal will look like. House budget committee chairman Paul Ryan says he's focusing on "achievable goals" and eschewing the much-talked about idea of a "grand bargain" between the two parties. Republicans won't allow higher tax rates, but according to Ryan and Rep. Tom Cole, they want to close some loopholes and replace most of the sequester with smarter spending cuts.

Ryan told Politico on Thursday, "We already have spending cuts coming. We’ll take those. If we can have smarter spending cuts, that’s better." Similarly, Cole said on Bloomberg TV Friday that he would replace most of the sequester. Second-round cuts kick in in January and will hit defense spending the hardest, so Republicans should be motivated to negotiate a deal.

<snip>

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/10/what-next-budget-deal-will-look/70956/

<snip>

United States: Government Shutdown Now Over – But What About Sequestration?

<snip>

The law signed by the President to address the short-term continuing resolution and temporarily raise the debt ceiling does not provide federal agencies flexibility to administer new sequestration cuts at this time. With the government spending levels remaining at FY 2013 levels for the duration of the CR, a new round of sequester cuts are not set to kick in until January 2014.

The law established a short-term budget conference committee, with a set deadline of Dec. 13, 2013 to outline recommended spending levels and program cuts. Of note is that the committee deadline is set in advance of when the second year of the sequester will begin. The deadline provides a window of opportunity for the new budget conferees to address how the sequester cuts are applied in FY 2014. [The conferees may contemplate making other adjustments to entitlement programs (Medicare and Medicaid) to address health care spending issues that will be negotiated during their deliberations. In addition, Medicare payments to physicians are set to be cut by approximately 25 percent if Congress does not address the cut by December 31, 2013 and offset the cut with a payfor that would likely include cuts to other health care entities. Any of these negotiations and decisions, if ultimately accepted by Congress, could impact the size of the Medicare sequester cuts in January FY 2014.

http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/271136/Government+Contracts+Procurement+PPP/Government+Shutdown+Now+Over+But+What+About+Sequestration


This is the reality we live in, and what about that joint House/Senate Committee?

I guess I expect little but perhaps enough so that the government stays open and the debt ceiling is raised- maybe just temporarily again. The thing is, Repubs are really hard to predict at this time. One thing we do know is that they will be pushing hard for:

Entitlement Cuts. Entitlement Cuts. Entitlement Cuts:

(I know some of you don't like the word Entitlement and I like Earned Benefits better too, but I'm using the word the politicians use because I want to reflect the language they're using when I'm referring to what they say)

The facts are these: Social Programs HAVE ALREADY BEEN CUT under the past Sequester Cuts and more cuts to Earned Benefits and social programs alike are briskly trotting down the pike: {Unrelated to "entitlements"}


Spending cuts are hurting economy

<snip>


If you thought this year's cuts to preschoolers, senior meals and medical research were bad, get ready for more. {Unrelated to "entitlements}

The two-week U.S. government shutdown may have ended and the U.S. didn't default on its debt. But the deal passed by Congress late Wednesday night allows the series of unforgiving budget cuts, also known as sequester, to continue through Jan. 15.

That's not good for the economy.

The nation has been operating on a shrunken budget, slashed by $80 billion in forced spending cuts since March 1. And already, the so-called sequester has dragged down economic growth, experts say.{Unrelated to "entitl;ements}

<snip>

The sequester slashed 57,000 children this fall from the rolls of Head Start daycare and preschool programs, available for poor families nationwide.

About two-thirds of Meals on Wheels programs had to reduce the number of meals they served, by an average of 364 meals per week, a survey found.

<snip>

The lack of government funds has also led to layoffs of hundreds of science and medical research jobs, according to a survey by the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology and 15 other scientific societies.

The cuts have also undermined federal public defenders' ability to defend those accused of federal crimes -- a constitutional right for people who can't afford a lawyer. Furloughs have delayed many cases -- prompting U.S. District Judge Richard George Kopf in Nebraska to declare: "It is time to tell Congress to go to hell." .{Unrelated to "entitlements}


<snip>

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/18/news/economy/sequester-economy-shutdown/

Here is a guide to upcoming 2014 Sequester Cuts as they currently stand:

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2013/06/guide-2014-sequester



Here's more on how Sequestration Cuts have harmed health care:

http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/10/the-sequestration-cuts-that-are-harming-health-care/

And yeah, no mistake that Rethugs love Sequestration. It's a dream come true for these turds. They largely escape political consequences and get lots of budget cuts.

Republicans and the Sequester: A Love Story

<snip>

So in just eight short months, those spending cuts went from "the Obama sequester" to a "top priority" for the GOP. How the times change.

During his floor speech, McConnell also excoriated Obamacare for "killing jobs." Not only is that false, but if McConnell wants to see a real job killer, he needs to look no further than his precious sequester spending levels. As I noted last week, the sequester has not only been gutting important programs, but is slowly strangling economic growth. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the spending levels under the sequester will cost up to 1.6 million jobs through fiscal year 2014.

Of course, the GOP to this point has been impervious to the mountain of evidence showing that cutting spending in a weak economy just makes for a weaker economy. So perhaps it's best that McConnell and co. are just owning up to the fact that the sequester is something they desire and admire. It's a love story for the ages: the sequester, once spurned, is now the one thing Republicans want to ensure will be staying around forever.

<snip>

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/2013/10/17/post-shutdown-mcconnell-and-the-republicans-admit-they-really-love-the-sequester

The cuts to social programs and entitlement spending are FACT, not opinion. How do we fight against it? I don't know, but here's a link to some petitions on Change.org. Contacting your Senators and Reps is basic.

http://www.change.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=social+security&commit=Search

{Unrelated to "entitlements}

So tell me again about your "Facts" ... The "Facts" related to "entitlements" are not facts at all; but merely guesses and speculation. And the other "facts", of things that have actually happened, are unrelated to your premise.

the evidence demonstrates so. Not so much with all the "He's gonna cut 'entitlements' this time" talk.

And how many Dems have now said openly that entitlement are going to be cut/reformed now?

How much closer do you need it to get before you think it might happen? Or before you think we should be allowed to be worried ourselves?

AND that budget has gone nowjere because the modern gop will not do the revenue to make it happen.

It's kind of like the kid saying, "I'll clean my room if you get me a pony", or my saying, "I'll give you a million bucks if you refrain from bashing and post only positive stuff about this President for a week. The kid knows he/she won't have to clean his/her room and I know my bank account is safe.

criticize Obama's policies they are not bashing him" or "I'll give you a million bucks if you can go one week without idolizing Obama".?

I'm starting to get it.

But I disagree, as I mentioned in another post, it's pretty stupid to put something out on a dare like that and we've already seen it fail big time.

The evidence indicates the President and a number of disloyal "Democrats" favor "entitlement" cuts.

Our only hope to stop this is to mobilize before it happens rather than wringing our hands after the cuts take effect.

and dare I say, wishful thinking, is not evidence; nor is, merely proposing something that everyone knows is going nowhere.

But if "mobilizing" involves/includes a staunch GOTV effort for 2014 ... please join me.

unless they are open to cuts?

would you pause to consider it?

You can't put something up for negotiation that you don't want to lose based on a bet that the other side won't take it. That is irresponsible to say the least. And frankly, I have very little confidence in Obama's ability to negotiate since he keeps giving up things that the R's want before making them ask for it. He meets them halfway before the negotiations even start so there's no way to go but towards them after that. I'm hoping his backbone stays rigid after its workout on the shutdown, although even there he made concessions during the shutdown and for it to end.

Also, the sequester is in place because the bet was that no one would ever allow that to happen, that a deal would be reached. Well that was a lost bet.

So no, I do not accept your theory as it's a bad tactic. When you negotiate you're supposed to ask for more than you want, then settle for what you want. I understand the R's are crazy and extreme, all the more reason to keep steady and not give an inch.
We've seen what happens when we do, they try to take a mile. So far they've gotten more than they've given.

Maybe; but it is a successful tactic ... check the obstruction/favorability/unfavorability number for the modern gop versus those for President Obama and Democrats.

How do I "Know" this is an "actual" whitehouse tactic? I don't; but I do have the ability to recognize patterans, and this patteran has been playing out, repeatedly, over the last 3 1/2 years ... with more and more success.

That is not how negotiations are done. You go in asking for more than you want, not offering up what the other side wants.

And yes he has. You are just deep in denial if you don't see that. What happened to the public option? What happened to single payer? He goes in every time meeting them halfway before they even start negotiating. SS is in his budget and he didn't even make them ask for it. If SS gets ruined it will be the Dems fault. From now on it will always be on the table because this Dem president didn't stand up and demand it never gets touched.

It's a known fact that Obama likes to be the guy who brings both sides together. Unfortunately for him, this was never a possibility in today's political climate. He wasted so much political capital trying to make nice with them. It's really too bad. He squandered away that wave of people's support at a time when we really needed someone who fought for us.

"sit down and shut up." ?

I am saying (and have said time and again ... in response to you and others) that Democrats will not cut "entitlements." There is a strategy in play designed to win the House in 2014.

I'm certain if you look hard enough, you can find my analysis.

sufficient revenues to do entitlement cuts ... what do you think the chances of the modern gop doing that? I mean they have been soooo willing to give on revenue increases and doing so will have absolutely no effect on their 2014 primaries, right?

being predictable?

that's how strategy works .. and it is working well; look at the republican obstruction/favorability/unfavorability numbers versus those for President Obama and Democrats.

You're going to tell me you think the sequester is part of a master plan?

but the sequester is different from republicans trading anything for tax increases.

The R's are going to be assholes no matter what. I just think that offering them something they want - something that is supposed to be an absolute third rail and has been so probably since it's inception - aids them in their assholiness. It puts into the narrative that it's okay to consider cutting it, that a Dem offered it up, so now, in future it can always be put on the table and no one will bat an eye because they are now used to hearing discussions about it. It's been out there as a possibility for over a year now I think, it was NEVER a possibility before. Now it will always be in the nation's consciousness as one.

The modern gop knew its base didn't understand/care about the effects of the sequester; but their base cares a lot about tax increases. There will be no cuts to "entitlements" so long as it is tied to tax increases.

The Republicans have a much stronger hand in budget negotiations because of the Sequester. They don't have to do a thing but pass continuing resolutions, and the spending cuts are automatic.

That would have given them a lot more leverage on all subjects, including the ACA, until they forced Obama into a 'no negotiations' mode on it, and all of sudden the program becomes more popular and people want to protect it.

Boehner took Obama to the cleaners in that deal. He was telling the truth when he said he got 98% of what he wanted.

Obama thought the Teahadists would object to Pentagon cuts. Oops.

the teahadists have been working to shift defense cuts and they have dem partners.

The big defense cuts are the one piece of leverage Democrats have.

We'll know within a few months whether the Tea Party has more mojo than the MIC in Congress.

for the droolers back home. That's what's important to them.

It's about gradual elimination of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid by budget cuts.

by the distraction of the 'shut down'.

Now they have 'softened' people up after threatening a complete shut down, to accept this 'lesser evil'.

The games they play with people's lives are disgusting.

But the people are to blame for continually falling for them no matter how many times they see the end result.

If Dems had said 'what they really want here is to cut benefits and no way are we going to cave to such a draconian attack on the most vulnerable', their 'power' would have been completely undermined.

But no one mentioned what they were really after, except for a few like Bernie Sanders and Grayson, who saw right through the whole charade.

The cuts to basic scientific research are coming at a time when they are desperately inappropriate. Especially cuts in research into the major medical problem that no one is talking about - the near total collapse of antibiotic effectiveness within the next 20 years. Bacteria are acquiring resistance to antibiotics at a terrifying rate. Many of the most powerful drugs we have are already ineffective against certain infections. As over-use, over-prescription and flat out misuse of antibiotics continue, major corporations are essentially quitting the R&D efforts because they are too costly. Developing new antibiotics is an arduous task and increasingly one that corporations feel is "not in their profitability interests".

Without government funding of basic research to find and develop new antibiotics or understand the mechanisms of resistance, we may all once again leave in a world where getting an open cut or scrape would be a death sentence and where relatively minor illnesses now become life threatening. Its easy to dismiss the scientists today. Whether its the idiot brigade of climate change deniers or the religious nut bags crusading for creationism or the greedy whores who supported the tobacco industries lies for so long, people have become distrustful of science in this country and that is tragic. What is more tragic is the consequences this will have for society in the long run.

I wish there was hope for change in these policies and decisions, but I voted for THAT twice...and I'm coming up snake-eyes on that bet.

F*ck 'em and the elephant they rode in on...

to benefits programs and social programs and medical research. Oh and curse and fuck those who keep talking about how "we all have to sacrifice". It's obfuscating dog crap.

Cut subsidies to oil companies. Cut the huge defense budget. Make the wealthy pay their fair share for a change.

Do that, and a lot of the problem is solved. This is where the waste is.

... do something about it.


We beat back the war in Syria, we beat back Summers.... we can beat back this. Contact your representatives tell them we are watching.

look it up.

and I've contacted my reps to thank them. Bernie, Pat and Peter.

Why the heck would you think that I haven't contacted my reps when I urge people to do so right there in the OP.

I was talking about everyone else.


You are lucky to have such great reps.

I used to have them as well. (Went to UVM)

I hope people will use some of the links and facts in the OP when they do contact their reps.

And do note which way he's facing.

Congress agrees to Massive cuts to Arms Manufacturers
Taxes raised 15 percent on individuals earning more than 2 million.
Corporations will feel big decrease in benefits from Government.

BUT...thank you cali, for not letting me get too far from reality.

Look at what has been systematically happening in this country. Wealth concentrated at the very top, with the middle class swirling down the drain. Stagnant wages, jobs being sucked out of this country, food and gas prices gouging us, healthcare costs rising. And now, cuts to the safety net.

The United States is being systematically dismantled as a superpower. The game is global now. The elites and the powerbrokers operate on a global scale.

The United States is a problem for global capitalists. Our employment, labor and environmental laws stand in the way of big corporations who look at unions and environmental laws as blockades to their profits. If they had their way, we'd be working for 50 cents a day in unsafe conditions with no unions and no environmental laws to prevent them from poisoning, dumping and polluting.

They've got to strip down the United States--everything from wages, labor laws, environmental laws to make the planet's workforce more homogeneous. They're going for the lowest common denominator because that's what increases profits. Furthermore, a country with decent wages, labor laws and environmental regulations is a glaring reminder to those working for 50 cents a day in dangerous conditions--that they just might deserve those things too.

The globalists can't have the United States demonstrating to anyone--that life doesn't have to be so catastrophic and miserable.

The new Trans Pacific Partnership, which is close to being signed--brings the United States into a trade pact with countries like with Mayalsia, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam that FORCES the Unites States to be fined and punished for having environmental laws and labor standards that do not fit into the aforementioned countries. Seriously. Our standards must mirror third-world employment/labor situations like Vietnam and Malaysia--or else we are penalized. This will have a downward pressure on all of our standards. It's criminal.

Everything that is happening--is not an accident. Cutting the safety net, horrendous food prices, stagnant wages---all while the rich become richer--is by design. GE makes billions of dollars every quarter and pays no corporate taxes--but we're about to cut the fixed income of 80-year-olds with no employment, from $800 per month down to $600. That's who we are now.

The globalists who've got their treasures are repelled by the lower classes who can't take care of themselves. And they figure the middle class folks who are worthy of life--will figure out a way to survive. Those that don't--well, they're too dumb or lazy to survive in their global playground.

That's what is happening. That's what the destruction of the safety net is about. Globalists don't need superpowers. In fact, people with money, confidence, great working conditions and a safe place to work--pose a threat to the peasantry that they're attempting to create. They need us destitute, broken and depressed in order to take advantage of us.

Very well indeed.

Bwahahahaha.

Gigantic FAIL, Joe.

but hardly a surprise.

As for the cuts ... they won't be happening this time, just like they did not happen every other time they've been predicted around here.

I do research. You opinionate without any basis at all.

big difference.

Clearly, you are way smarter than I am, given all of your research.

So prove it. Make a prediction based on your research.

SS cuts will happen this time.

Yes, or No.

policy discussions going on in DC and around the country? Are you Kreskin? Are others suppose to be like Jean Dixon?
This thinking that the goal is to predict the outcome and smugly, silently observe to see if one is 'right' is thinking that makes anyone of any point of view worthless in the political process. What good is participatory democracy when the participation is just to make a prediction?
This is not religion, we are not debating the return of the Messiah, the results come fairly quickly, meaning prophets are of no value and of course with a media full of pundits making predictions any need for that crap is well filled already.
I don't even get the point in playing 'I Predict'. Unless one is in Sparks.

"Obama and the Dems are going to CAVE, and cut Social Security."

That's the general prediction. It started in 2009 and has continued ever since. And its been wrong each and every time.

What do you think the current OP title means ... ??

and the facts presented in the words of some dems and some members of administration are what imply that.

and sure people make political predictions all the time. YOU have NO ability to force me into making one. I'll make political predictions if I wish to, not on demand.

I said most such threads imply one ... and said most have wised up to keep them implicit.

Your OP title makes a prediction.

Cuts will happen, and we will be screwed. That's what your OP title says.

I'm presenting facts and the shape and nature of the current debate on budget

Here's another.

you dont have an intelligent response?

A prediction as regular and as accurate as other end of the world predictions.

All well and good until the last paragraph. See how it's done? Wrap a lie in the truth and people will swallow it like a dog gulps down a pill wrapped in baloney.

Ten Social Security Benefits You Didn’t Know You Had | Fox Business

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/07/05/10-social-security-benefits-didnt-know-had/?cmpid=edpick&google_editors_picks=true

Planes with Saudi terrorists on board hit the WTC and what happens?

We invade Iraq.

Deregulation and lax oversight and enforcement cause a multi-$trillion housing bubble to inflate and burst and what happens?

Why, tax cuts for the wealthy and cuts to social programs, of course.

Given the financial windfall at stake for the .00001%, I guess we shouldn't be surprised, but the amount of money and effort that continues to feed the lies and denials of fact in the media still shocks me.

Never worry about this again.

...and Reid is an honorable man.

As well as on this post.