Last edited Wed Oct 30, 2013, 10:20 AM - Edit history (3)

The Third Way denial gets so old.

The record shows aggressive, proactive pursuit of a corporate agenda...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3152360


...in every policy area important to the One Percent.

This list does not show the President trying to enact a more liberal agenda and being obstructed. It shows him working aggressively and proactively, over and over again, to install corporatists into his administration and to enact a corporate agenda.

2) Thank you.

Your summaries and links are always worth reading.

And cuz you like this so much:

I'll leave the 3rd party/Libertarian shit for others.

We are not at the voting booth and no one is talking about not voting for Dems. What point is there to be here if you have no interest in discussing policy? We all are Dems here but we are individuals with ideas and insight, not lemmings.

down boy!

Why would you want to keep reality away from you?

Ha ha ha. ROTFLMAO! Funny funny funny!

The cheerleading and willingness to overlook the policies in favor of the Party is - quite literally - killing us.

"The cheerleading and willingness to overlook the policies in favor of the Party is - quite literally - killing us."

Perfectly well summed up.

Unfortunately, as evidenced in one of the headings of replies to this, the blind refuse to even try to see.

Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them), Would be helpful to have the links to these charges right NEXT to the charges, but even with that I know there were also plenty of fines being assessed against these very same corrupt banks and they were required to pay billions into funds that states would use to help homeowners stay in their homes. So yeah. BULLSHIT!

Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC) Do they have proof that would stand up in a court of law? Kind of stupid to go after a case you have virtually no hope of winning
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war link?
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war wait. I thought the "expansion of wars into several new countries" mentioned above related to drone attacks. so what other WARS are we engaged in that I'm unaware of aside from targeted drone strikes?
Proliferation of military drones in our skies proof? are they armed? are they used for mapping? surveillance? run by our military as the name implies? Or local law enforcement?


These are just a few cases in that long rant to show what a one-sided pile of dung woo's post is.

There have been numerous conversations here with multiple sourcing re bank corruption and expansion of use of drones.

times hard to swallow, no matter the size of dose.
Thank you for compiling this list--it's grown a lot in the past 5 years.

oh the irony.

Thanks for putting all of this together.

I think I counted a half dozen of them.

Was considering debunking the list or putting it in a more reasonable light, but why bother. The Obama detractors don't give a fuck.

they have been told to hate all authority and attack anyone with power. Just like some are bigoted against anyone who has a lot of money. They MUST be evil. Just like Ron Howard, the bald, evil villain.

A lot of what drew people to DU was the absolute shock and dismay that a great injustice to our nation had been done. We were seeking a like minded group to ask how we fight back because the mainstream media was too afraid of their shocked, uber-patriot audiences post 9/11 to do much of anything in the way of investigative reporting on Bush crime family.

However, there were also those for whom DU provided a natural habitat from which they could lob all manner of wailing and attacks on the White House--not because of who was in the White House--but as a matter of principle.

They are the perennially dissatisfied. They are the righteous who must judge the rest of us because we don't cry every night thinking about the cows slaughtered for meat, who reuse their paper plates until they can see the table pattern through them, and who are militantly unhappy and will not rest until everyone else is.

Obama and any future president will NEVER do anything good enough for them. Just consider them background noise or trash their threads.

anyone who is in power. I understand that, and share it, to a certain extent. However, constant negativity has a negative effect on society. A constant pessimistic attitude really works to prevent good things from happening to some degree. If it discourages people from taking part in the process of government and elections, then that negative effect really can prevent good government.

It's frustrating to me. I'm no Pollyanna, at all. But, I try to maintain hope that good will prevail in the long run. If I couldn't do that, I would be very unhappy. So, I look at my next opportunity to actually change something, and work toward that goal. Right now, that's 2014, and the wheels are already in motion for that election.

I cannot simply complain and not act. So, I act by trying to change the makeup of national and state legislatures. I can do something about that, and I always will work toward that goal. The next chance is 2014 for most of us. I'm excited by the possibiliities.

what are you gonna do? I guess that's one reason I don't ignore or do other weird features to hide from what's posted here. I like to see what the mix of "news" vs. "cheer leading" vs. "negativity" vs. "sound analysis and opinion" is at DU during any given period.

I think there are some unpaid crazy conservatives who troll here with negative crap just to try and tamp down our activism and excitement. There could be paid folks who actually come in and drag the conversation down as a job. And there are definitely some who see the glass as always half empty who unwittingly help the first two in their mission to make DU a less helpful place for engaged Democrats.

I don't know, so I don't say.

without attaching names or percentages to any one of them. Just being open to all of the reasons we might feel like we're experiencing a torrent of negativity against Obama and Senate Dems.

and probably before that, too. I find it disturbing and counter-productive, so I write things that attempt to counter it. I'll continue to do so.

Could be unpaid centrists, or paid folks who actually come in and drag the conversation down as a job. They muddy up the debate and make it sound like the Dem party is supposed to now embrace drones, spying, etc., because they refuse to criticize bad policy. They could be coming in here as a job in order to push the Dems even farther to the right so that corporations will benefit rather than the people. Or they may be seeing the glass as full when it is really half-full and needs a lot more filling, and unwittingly helping the others in their mission to make DU a less helpful place for engaged Democrats who wish to adhere to long standing Dem principles.

now onto Venn diagrams!

if you have been reading the site for so many years? Was it a particular conversation or subject? I am truly curious.

Member since: Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:36 AM

I read for several years before a thread came up that I just HAD to reply to.

Even if that speculation is wrong over and over.

look at things and try to find ways things are going well. I'm outraged that the successes aren't being recognized.

those successes.

And some would be outraged about all of the blue links.

I've come to the simple conclusion that the perpetually disgruntled, will remain, perpetually disgruntled.

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catfoodcatfood

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and buy some to keep my cats from looking at me as prey.

On behalf of your cats:

I also agree~

GOTV 2014!

And thanks for recognizing the importance of 2014.

If President Obama had done some of the things the RW claims he was going to do I would be upset. If the RW worked towards some of the agenda of Obama we would be much better today. It is a lot about GOTV, not only to support Obama but to get this country back on track. We have gone the GOP way, failed miserably, now it is time to govern.

Sid

elect a majority in the House in 2014. That would be a real outrage, but right now it's just speculative.

We need to elect people that want to govern...

Not those that run on a platform of destroying what we've already built.

Without it we might have had Geithner at the Federal Reserve. Or other things. That's what makes a democracy work.

increased and continue under Obama, we have carried out strikes and killed innocents in at least 5 countries under Obama. The NSA programs continue under Obama.

The issues you have refer to debates that were or are ongoing. It would be silly to suggest silence during policy debates.

and are still going on. I'm hopeful all of those things will end.

. . . and admittedly, the closing of GITMO was frustrated by Congress. HOWEVER, in Pakistan alone, there were 52 drone strikes between June 17, 2004 and January 2, 2009 there were 52 drone strikes in Pakistan alone. Between January 23, 2009 and September 2, 2012, there were 292. Yes, the drones policy started under Bush. But President Obama increased the rate of usage by over 5½ times. Now n his fifth year in office, sorry, but President Obama owns this one, sad to say. (See http://www.livingunderdrones.org/numbers/ _ >

Oh, and the force-feeding of inmates also began under this President.

but the practice has been unsatisfactory. I have no answer to that one at all. Personally, I believe we should stand down completely with regard to that part of the world. Period. I have held that belief for as long as I can remember, dating back to the 1960s. We have not done that, however. More's the pity.

There are many issues. That is one issue.

. . . there are many issues, and I am not a single-issue voter and thus support President Obama. But at the same time, when it comes to such a troubling policy as the expanded use of drones, I'm not going to give him a pass.

I've been steady in my objection to that as well, throughout the time it has been going on. It's not a topic I find useful to discuss here on DU, though.

If Obama supports it, shouldn't we do so as well?

Would you rather have had McCain or Romney? For all we know they might have supported the drone policy as well.

Now that more oil has recently been discovered in Libya, shouldn't we support an expansion of our drone policy there as well? If Obama does, shouldn't we?

positive changes and possibilities. That's a very different thing. Thanks for recognizing that!

some of them translate that into demanding they stay silent.

words I wrote. I didn't even ask for, much less demand silence about anything. I asked for talk about positive possibilities and activism toward change through our mid-term elections.

I have no power on this website, so I can't tell people not to post here. I wouldn't anyhow. What I can do, though, is post for myself, and I do that from time to time.

they're doing just fine.

We can iron out our differences after we regain control of the House.

That is, or should be, a primary goal right now. Above just about any other.

It should be the top priority for Dems of all stripes.

Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 06:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Is that how you think a democratic country that is supposed to be governed by the will of the people works?

No, people are supposed to speak up.

And if the govt didn't listen to public opinion at all - granted they don't listen nearly enough - why do they float trial balloons? Why do you think Summer's name was put out? Why do you think he removed himself from the list? To see the public's reaction and to respond to it. Yet there were people who actually thought it was a bad thing to speak up about him possible appointment. There were actually people who didn't think the negative reaction had any effect at all.

opinion of things under consideration. Always. I've been doing that since the 1960s.

I'm also working on what is coming that gives us an opportunity for change. Frankly, I have a better chance of success with that than with communicating with legislators and the executive. I continue to communicate, though. Why would you think I do not?

out about things that concern them then, as you stated in your OP.

That's why I didn't criticize the Iraq War effort until after the first bomb was confirmed to have landed and exploded.

I mean, why bother.

And after all, it's not like Obama asked anyone to hold his feet to the fire.

This is not a zero sum thing, you know.

Which is the point...once it has began it is too late to stop it.
So I guess we should have kept our mouth shut until the bombs were falling on Syria and then we would have had something to complain about.
Or until they pass TPP or chained CPI before we say anything...because it might look bad for Obama?

I can't understand that logic...it makes no sense to me.

We wouldn't want to preemptively criticize the preemptive strike against a nation that had no WMDs and had nothing to do with 911.

Plus it would just wreak havoc on the narrative the neocons worked so hard to craft.

No one wants to be a party pooper. Not me, anyways.

LOL!

For instance, it is hyperbole to think Obama would just magically cut social security without assuring there would be concessions such as poverty exceptions and closing the tax loopholes. Every time that came up he was just accused of doing the cut, the actual proposal is never explained, because it's a misinformation campaign.

It was never hyperbole to assume that Bush was going to invade Iraq unilaterally. His administration had been pushing for a unilateral invasion for years, even before 9/11.

Now, Obama, as a candidate, wanted to put entitlements on the table. Yet there hasn't been a serious proposal that would pass Congress.

People way smarter than me say expanding the program would stimulate the economy.

In fact Dubya hadn't even been in office a single year on 9/11/2001.

From January 20 2001 to March 20 2003 is 2 years and 2 months.

that appears to exist for no other purpose than to shit on a Democratic President of the United States and his administration. If that requires frantic wailing and gnashing of little teeth over events that have not transpired, so be it.

If you don't like it perhaps this isn't the country best suited to your desires.

No one in DU is here to "shit on a Democratic President of the United States". I have seen a lot of thoughtful criticism and analysis regarding his policies. There is deep disappointment that he is so centrist, that he is so friendly to Wall Street - so much so that he put them in the WH - so of course with that comes criticism.

That is far better than just being complacent because we have a Dem president and defending everything he does even when it goes against long standing principles of the Dem party. Apologists are far more dangerous than critics when there is bad policy being discussed.

No provocateurs. The people who get banned? Ahh, just a simple misunderstanding.

What was your concern with GOTV then? Those people aren't going to vote for Dems anyway.

But when you said "dedicated cadre" I certainly did not think you meant people who've been banned. Not sure how they can be a "dedicated cadre" on this board.

I'm part of a cadre.

The only thing he actively did that I still hold against him was bargaining away the public option before the debate even began. After that, my problems rest with things he could have and should have done, but did not.

I do recognize the extreme unlikelihood of enacting it at that time, though. ACA is not an equivalent, but it will benefit many. So, if something worthwhile happens, that's a good thing, in the face of nothing happening at all.

There are many, many things, I wish had been done already in the Obama years. I've been watching things transpire, like everyone else. It's frustrating, to be sure.

Right now, the best shot I can see is to work like crazy to regain control of the House for Democrats. We did it in the state legislature in Minnesota, and it has made all the difference in a number of areas. We must do it nationally, too, and we have a great opportunity in 2014. So, that's my focus now. It's really my main focus now. It's what I can do with a hopeful attitude.

President Obama worked a minor victory recently by refusing to accept compromise in the budget deal and the debt ceiling. It worked. I'm hopeful that gives him confidence to continue doing so. Now, the real job is up to us, in our own districts across the country.

Here's hoping he can keep up with them.

And we need to plan for 2016 as well.

because they monitor all our internet traffic her at the FEMA concentration camp Obama put us in.

minimum wage workers at fast food franchises. It's the only way they get to stay out of the camps.

will sometimes fear the worst.

Imagine what he'll do with a solid majority in the House. That's what I'm thinking about. Do you object to that enthusiasm for the upcoming election? That's what this thread is about, after all.

but the infestation of outrage crowd seem to overlook that part.

....to be radically different from previous Administrations on major issues of economics, trade, foreign policy, and fiscal policy were proven wrong.

Maybe we shouldn't have gotten our hopes up. Maybe "Hope" and "Change" really were campaign slogans that were more stylistic than substantive.

from any single Presidential term. Truly. It's a process, not an end.

some discussion. More's the pity.

These glass half empty half full threads don't you see things could be worse Obama is trying he needs a majority but look at all the wonderful things he's done

I give you great credit actually for not posting The List™

What value do you see in such comments?

for their post without content or merit and merely fueling negativity.

you. Your post was just rude, and so was this one. It adds nothing to the discussion.

With your politeness tips instead of clogging this thread with your moral rectitude.

But you follow up with more insults and insinuations that could have been ripped from your already juicy transparency page. You should think about that page when you decide to launch into personal insults.