would be what we would see with a true single payer system. No more, no less.

And THAT is why it was stupid to "compromise" and make a deal with the devils -just as it is in all the "bipartisan compromises" that Obama has made.

Obama's position will be assumed to be "far left" and a new "middle" will be assigned by the MSM that is further and further right. This is the same dynamic that has been at work for the last 30 years.

democrats are willing to throw their way as always. I heard Dori Monson today say he was heartbroken for the 33% of Boeing workers who voted for the contract. Is that what we should be doing now? Begging for whatever they are willing to give us? Not me.

to the right from there.

So they can wind up pleasuring the corporate donors while still pretending to be Democrats in front of their voting constituencies. Fools 'em every time, because they're so desperate to believe.

And people realize they've got insurance (yay!) that they cannot afford to use ("Uhm, shhh. You have insurance now, ingrate!&quot

I feel like I'm insane, that no one sees the shitstorm coming.

Oh yeah.....

You don't have a built-in chunk of the electorate already primed to dismantle social programs.

And keep in mind this is the state that brought you Mitt Romney and Scott Brown.

copays over the years and we still have bad credit because you just can't get in front of these things unless you never go to the doctor. People have no idea what is coming. Those of us who have had insurance all these years know what's coming. It will be a shit storm for sure.

...is far superior to health coverage and potentially several thousand dollars of debt.

Yes, I personally know a family with that much medical debt. And my sister in law will have her life saved because of the ACA (pre-existing serious condition and about to come off fathers insurance due to age).

No, the ACA is not perfect. Very far from it. But the idea that it'll be some epic disaster is pure hyperbole at this point. And for those who are on the short end of the stick, do you really think they'll feel going back to the old way will be an improvement???

no matter what we asked for. If the democrats were willing to fight this hard for ACA they damn well could have fought for single payer. Then no one would have to go bankrupt because they got sick.

I've long been a supporter of single payer, and wish we had gone that direction. But we didn't. And agonizing over that won't help. We have to keep pushing.

I don't see a shitstorm in Massachusetts ....do you?

by the way...out of pocket gets capped and no more maximums...

I will take THAT kind of shitstorm any day!

the only way to Single Payer is through ACA. If it fails.....Single Payer will be played as WORSE. America is not a mirror image of DU.

I'm agreeing with you. If the ACA fails, Single Payer will be impossible for another decade or two.

but how is that going to be "flushed" by ACA?

I don't get you at all.

people need to call bullshit on bullshit polls.

What, specifically?

a one-point drop among Republicans and a seven-point increase in Democrats since 2010 is absolute BS.

In fact, the poll shows Republican opposition dropped two points since last year, but Democratic opposition increased five points.

How is that possible when most Democrats are demanding single payer?

Do you believe every poll by every polling organization?

Some polls are outliers and some pollster simply don't collect good data on certain issues.

The results look faulty compared to other polls.

I mean, during the health care debate polls were showing tremendous support for the public option. Gallup's own poll showed 52 percent approved.

I still say that it's unlikely Democratic opposition to a government roll in health care increased while it decreased slightly among Republicans. In fact, Democrats represent a four-point increase compared to one point among independents over last year.

Other polls I've seen suggest that "Medicare for all" has a majority of support.

I searched around, but everything seems to from around 2009. The disturbing trend in the Gallup poll starts around there. For comparison's sake, I'd like to see where people are on it today.

Bonobo is right. These the noises we've been expecting.

Sid