Even explaining why product A (for Apple) may not be better for us than product B, with what I think are perfectly rational reasons elicits a very strong reaction.

Because God forbid I know that I am VERY uncomfortable using a touchscreen keyboard and I can get a phone where I don't have to buy one separately for half the price of an iPhone.

And God forbid I am typing this on a PC as I speak.

beyond the fact that my husband (big hands, big fingers) needs a full size keyboard - bigger than the tablet computer add ons.

I tried an Ipad for a week. Got so frustrated with the damn thing trying to do documents and spreadsheets, I bought one of those keyboard accessories but even that was too small for my husband. No way to plug in an external hard drive or thumb disc to transfer documents. Virtually all of my client videos are on youtube - ooops, no way to watch those... I gladly surrendered it back to my sister after the week's trial. It's a very cool gadget but I need a work companion, not a gadget.

But just try to articulate that on some of the threads here and wham! Major pushback....

They're the same damn chips (Intel) that are used in PC's now.

Then again, I buy off brand shoes too and people swear their Nike shoes are oh so superior.

To each their own. It's their money not mine.

Dare I say it, OS/2?

We WILL make a comeback.

Someday.

I hope.

If you do nothing but run batch jobs on your machine, MVS is the shit; otherwise, VM all the way!

through a subsidy through a government grant.

It's called Project Endeavour, and it's very specific on who they will help give a one-time 50% reduction on most devices.

They do laptops, netbooks, smartphones, iPads, and other tablets.

http://www.projectendeavor.com/

And I definitely believe Apple products are a rip-off. They're not bad, just way overpriced.

Some people think I'm fighting a war, but I'm really just giving advice in a field I know something about. I hate seeing my brother, for instance, spend double on hardware and complain about having no money for other things. It's always an interesting day when he has to buy an "Apple cable". They're always triple the price of similar standardized cables.

I used to fight Apple/PC wars decades ago on Usenet, but that was just for fun.

... while PCs compete in a cutthroat market. I prefer to take advantage of that situation. I'm also pretty happy with my Android phone.

I'm not a stupid person. What I spend my money on is my business. I see people spend 80 bucks on a Bruce Springsteen concert and think they are stupid, but it's their money.

He could buy a bleeding-edge fast PC for less than half the price of a typical Mac, and upgrade later in incriments instead of having to buy a new box each time.

Again, this isn't a call to war, it's just a fact.

Lots of Mac people simply don't know about the benefits of the ultra-competative PC market. Competition is very good for the consumer. Check out the DIY PC section at Microcenter sometime, you'll be stunned at the massive selection and price.

I have better uses for my time than learning how to build and troubleshoot a DIY machine. PC or MAC.

And do tell us all, if you want a laptop, especially a lightweight one, where's the DIY section for them?

It's like connecting one lego brick to another, by design.

I've never bothered with laptops because I like power and expandability. If the laptop market was DIY I'd certainly consider it.

It really depends upon how you look at it. Yes, you pay more up front for a Mac, but you get what you pay for, which is less down time, fewer crashes, fewer virus', and longer computer life. In the past nineteen years I've had two computers. The first was a Power Mac 6100 that I kept as my main computer for ten years, until the Internet simply became too fast and bloated for it. It still works, and I still use it once in awhile. My second computer, my current one, is an eMac. Still running strong, and at this rate it may continue to be my main home computer for another five years at least.

Meanwhile, all the PC using folks I know have gone through at least two PC's in the time I've had my eMac. Furthermore, I've had zero downtime due to crashes and virus'.

You get what you pay for. Pay crap for a PC and that's what you get, a crappy machine that is going to have lots of downtime and dies an early death. Pay for a quality Mac, and you've got a tool that will last a decade or more, giving you little, if any, trouble.

None of them are remotely true, they are myths propagated by Macheads.

The only fact you mentioned is that PC's are susceptible to more virii, but that doesn't mean they necessarily get more virii. My system is protected with free software and hasn't been infected with anything other than tracking cookies in years.

I think posts like yours might be why the PC wars are still fought. Disinformation is ugly.

contention... 20+ years personal experience on both mac and pc DOES NOT support your opinion....i have had both windows and apple in home and business use.

I have much fewer crashes in a mac, startup is faster, and longer usage before replacement of my mac... we are talking about off the shelf macs and off the shelf window machines here, not personal build windows vs. off the shelf apple machines.

I love my apple computers because they work without constant updates to anti-virus software, they are more stable (hardly ever crash), and I buy 1 new one for every 2 of the windows machines.

I don't mind paying more for quality and reliability....my time is very important and not wasting it on products that need babysitting is a big plus!

Is it when the Democratic Strategist types -- professional bloggers -- told them that sites like DU, Kos, HuffPo, were chock full of well off young technocrats who are easily swayed by advertising from "approved" media outlets?

that's why lots of folks give a shit.

just another sign of these times.

I've been using computers since the sixties and have watched them go from huge monstrous rooms full to something I can hold in my hand which is faster, larger (memory and storage), and more reliable than anything else a short time ago.

So I'm a sophisticated user and a bit of a computer geek. That's why I cannot stand Windows. It 's an obscene operating environment, inefficient, difficult to administrate, and bloated with idiotic proprietary rubbish. Plus, it's fucking insecure as all hell, viruses and all sorts of problems. So, I don't use it, but I have in the past at a very high level. My only exposure now is a few clients who use it in their businesses, a couple of whom always manage to get clobbered with viral intruders.

I like Linux a lot because I can just about do anything with it. It never lets me down --- not ever, and I've used it for 15 years, pretty much exclusively. Plus, no need for viral scanners.

Apple is cool, too. It's based on the same type of OS kernel as Linux (BSD), which makes it more secure than Win.

That's my story. Your mileage may vary.

I used my first computer in the late 70s and it was so much different than now. Apple did a lot of good toward the advancement of computers as did Windows and open source. I just don't see why people care what other people use for their computer experience. It's still a very silly thing to be arguing about.

nt

A mathematics prodigy, he was their youngest computer project manager/designer ever. He also describes vast rooms of computing equipment even as today he holds up his Ipod in one hand and his wife's small Acer notebook in the other, and marvels....

Like you he builds his own computers from scratch but admires and uses anything that's functional - a virtual cross dresser of technology if you will. He built our desktop from various components, gave me one of his Sony Vaio laptops, gave me the funds to buy an IPad, gave my daughter an Itouch. He's been instrumental in teaching me and my family how to get beyond the hype and shop for what we need, not what's the most trendy.

When a MacBook costs at most 20% more than a similarly powerful Acer or Toshiba or Dell or Asus laptop, we'll talk.

That's my point. I've used PCs mostly for my main computer needs because of money, but I don't feel ripped off with my iPad or iPhone. And if someone wants to spend 4 times as much as I do for a laptop and get an Apple, that's their business...I don't care enough to argue about it.

Apple users seem to tend to think that Apple does most things other computers cannot, and does better than other computers can, and in my experience swing that ignorance around like a dead cat on Halloween.

It makes me tired.

I use Apple and Windows. I like my iPad and iPhone, but would never buy their computers. Sure, there are some people who have a cultish reaction to Apple, but it's a very few relativity speaking. But even here on DU, as soon as Apple is brought up a lot of people are just as cultish about their preferences.

My first computer was an Amiga - yeah you read right. I first went on the net with an Amiga 1200 in 1994 - yeah it was possible. It was a 14.4 modem on dialup. I learned a lot using that little Amiga but finally had to move on and chose a Windows box based solely on price. I've used Ubuntu as well and really like it. Its a bit geeky for most folks but haven't used it for awhile because I can't afford to screw up this machine if I mess up - being out of work and all. Computers are tools and people choose the tools that work best for them - Apple, Windows, or Linux whatever works for you.

and service tech it is your money, your choice. I hope that what ever you decide, it works well for you,

Life is to short to try to make others happy.

Wishing you good luck.

F irst
O n
R ace
D ay

You can build a far more powerful computer yourself than anything you can get from any big box manufacturer - something that Apple does not have.

Control over the hardware is my basic criterion.

With Apple, that's not so good.

but was what you bought made with union labor or not.

One either supports unionized labor or one does not and how one spends their money is a direct reflection of their beliefs.

It's been won, it's over.

The only people who suggest that there's a war going on the the Apple enthusiasts.

It is like arguing which cheese tastes better. There are not really that many objective qualities that differentiate the products.

"Open source is great but it is not as user friendly to everyone as Apple or Windows is and that is fine."

Horses for courses, of course. However as someone that has used an open source OS, and open source office along with paid for efforts I have less trouble with open. I've never lost work on openoffice, and where on my xp I use openoffice before I use my paid windows office 2007 software, that for one incurable reason crashes without warning. As for user friendliness it too goes to open source OS, using mint or ubuntu in my view is a far more user friendly environment than windows xp.

However I believe there are more pressuring problems then arguing about who builds the better phone or pad.
Our household has to work with a single 12$ cell phone from the corner store and it does actually work and
there is no arguing about apps at all
The large corporations have their customers nicely programmed into believing that they have to have this or that.
This brainwashing can go that far that some actually believe, that if they spend $1149 for a power cable,
they will get better audio out of their equipment.
Example:
http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-signature-p-199.html
Claims: "Absence of background noise. High resolution without listening fatigue. Neutral tembre and texture of sound.
After about three days of use: somewhat more organic sound, better system synergy and smoothness, the high resolution perceived to be more liquid."

Don't let anyone (including apple) brainwash you and turn you into a nut!

but if anyone says anything against lynyrd skynyrd, i will whoop their ass.