I've heard of a Jon Stewart....

The john Steward.

You made me laugh

Good for Jon Stewart.

As is typical, unfortunately, in our corporate media the unmitigated hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby and the Green family hasn't been noted. Even the MSNBC discussions about this case that I have seen thus far have failed to bring-up the biggest fact that undercuts Hobby Lobby's alleged 'religious' principles: they are now, in fact, funding abortion and contraception.

My previous post --- and I think the ideas in this message need to be spread broadly -- Hobby Lobby and the Greens need to be called out on this!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4095212

Hobby Lobby is a huge funder of abortion, contraception.

Look at it this way ...

Hobby Lobby buys and imports massive quantities of products made in Communist China. Indeed, a large portion of the arts, crafts and decor products it sells are made exclusively for Hobby Lobby by Chinese laborers.

Of course, these sweat shops in China for the most part are run by or are in partnership with the government of Communist China.

Hobby Lobby really is paying a lot of money to support the Chinese government and its one-child policy (the recent announcement of a change was nominal) that essentially mandates abortion and all kinds of contraception.

So, by shopping at Hobby Lobby, you are actually enabling and encouraging forced abortion and contraception for hundreds and thousands of Chinese women. Ironic, uh?

All to the point that Hobby Lobby owner/founder/CEO David Green is one of the biggest hypocrites in the United States. It seems that he gets 'religion' only when he thinks it might affect his bottom-line.

Indeed, Green infamously wrote either last year or earlier this year that: "... honoring God is more important than turning a profit."

David Green is a LIAR.

Green and Hobby Lobby are entirely dependent upon turning a profit by selling Chinese-made products -- products made under a regime that officially is atheist and pro-abortion.

about saving Chinese babies.
thanks for the suggestion.

Done.

And, I hope you don't mind my blatant plagerism, but here is a copy of my email.
TITLE-
"Working for the Lord"

"I have a question with which I hope you can help me.
If, as your website says, you are "Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles." And, if you do not want to pay for insurance for women for birth control and abortions, then why do you buy merchandise from Communist China, thereby supporting the Chinese government and its wide-spread one-child policy that essentially mandates abortion and all kinds of contraception?
That seems pretty hypocritical to me. Or is it just that the bottom line is really what counts?"

I was going to give you (or Jon Stewart) credit for the part of your great post, but figured that whomever read my email would have no idea who 'earthside' or Jon Stewart are.

Of course, you can't tell a religious fanatic/hypocrite anything that challenges their delusion -- they'll look at you quizzically like you are speaking in a foreign language.

But it sure seems to me that there is no way out of this Hobby Lobby double standard for the Green family.
Of course, the thing is that Hobby Lobby is open to the general public, hires employees from the general public and, therefore, must obey the laws in this country just like any other business. Carving out an exception for themselves because the owners have a particular religious belief is ultimately unfair and bigoted against others of different beliefs.

Still, the Supreme Court being what is is these days, I wouldn't be surprised that Hobby Lobby gets the ruling it wants --- man, will that open a Pandora's Box.

But then I don't have a smart phone either.

still a brilliant recognition by Stewart.

Glad you're here! Certainly they're NOT bad things! And yes, more brilliance from Jon Stewart. Glad he's on OUR side!

I would like to see them defend it.

when you worship two gods.

ooooo ....i don't know if there's enough bactine in the world. But maybe enough moonshine, perhaps. Cheers.

How can these companies claim ANY moral authority about birth control when they are SUPPORTING the Chinese economy and laws, but not ours?

... needs their head examined.

That includes the pope. If he wants the Catholic church to join the 21st century (or the 20th century for that matter) he'll endorse contraception.

According to http://news.yahoo.com/china-one-child-law-change-small-crucial-experts-115730650.html

The Policy experiment is creating a demographic time bomb with an unbalance between males and females in the Chinese Population creating a generation of Bachelors.

The Chinese government and Hobby Lobby seem to share the attitude that they know what is best for women and their families and they should not be trusted to make their own decisions. Of course China did it out of fear of Famine while Hobby Lobby is intent on imposing their religious beliefs on their employees and probably society as a whole.

The Chinese in rural areas wanted boys for obvious reasons, but girls are more desirable in urban areas because the family didn't have to save until adulthood to provide a home to a son so he could be married. I think eventually they would have reached a point of equilibrium but with no threat of famine the one child policy has outlived its usefulness.

Females leave their homes to live with their husbands families. China created a statistical anomaly of 118-101 male-female ratio in certain areas. When policy was created its goal was population control not taking a millennium of culture into consideration

They have tremendous social pressures to do so. If you don't take care of your parents, you will be ostracized by society. This is true for men and women.

children take care of their parents, be they male or female.

takes care of her parents back in China. And, I'm sure my wife would as well if she were back there.

and that female babies would be less desirable

In the past, if a Chinese family had (for example) 10 children, 5 boys and 5 girls, the family would spend all their resources on the boys for their education and betterment. With the one child policy, the girls that were born got all the resources from the parents (and grandparents)

you can now have 2 children if either of your parents was an only child. There were exceptions before, but now it is extended to most people. You can still get 2 sons if you want 2 sons.

A lot of wealthier Chinese already got around the laws anyhow - the fine for having a second child was huge for poor and working class Chinese, but for the newly wealthy upper class and upper middle class types, it's like paying a speeding ticket.

Beyond the fine, there are social controls. It can be difficult to advance in one's career, obtain permits and other advantages.

..

it happens in China
http://www.salon.com/2001/04/18/blue_48/
Pat said:
"If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable … I think that right now they’re doing what they have to do. I don’t agree with the forced abortion, but I don’t think the United States needs to interfere with what they’re doing internally in this regard.”

hypocrites with their junk from one child China.

So, in other words, you would want the law to grant all kinds of bizarre religious exemptions to health insurance provided to employees of corporations who provide services, and thus don't source any raw materials from China, or to, say mining companies, or corporations which otherwise are domestically-sourced?

Uh, no. I'd rather not have the law depend on some measure of "sincerity" of the corporation in question.

This case is at the second appellate level.

If the company loses "because they are insincere" then the principle left standing is that they could do it if they were sincere.

However, the question of their "sincerity" is not a factual issue of record in this appeal anyway, but nobody is looking for a ruling limited to the factual context of this company's sincerity or lack thereof.

But it could still be helpful in the overall fight for public opinion to point out their apparent hypocrisy and insincerity. Maybe it would give pause to others who are considering fighting the law but also have contradictory behavior.

As I said, we should contact their customer support department and ask them about their hypocrisy.

Why do they purchase from a country that mandates family planning and abortion?

http://www.hobbylobby.com/customer_service/contact_us_form.cfm?company=1&addr=1&dept=1&mypage=1

Why do they purchase from a country that mandates family planning and abortion? 

But it's still hypocrisy. If they are so pious and sincere then they should go out of business rather than support China. Saying "I'll only fight for my beliefs and my God if doing so doesn't hurt the bottom line" isn't exactly what the Christian religion teaches.

End of discussion.

they stand on a soap box and play to a grandstand of idiots.

And Hobby Lobby should be called out for it. They don't really care about contraception. It's just all about riling up the Tealiban.

not for their American employees? Do I have that right?

I hadn't looked up this case, but will google it now.

What a bunch of twisted rw logic...

A company owned by Scientologists could deny mental health benefits (they don't believe in psychiatry). A company owned by Christian Scientists could deny all medical attention, since they don't believe in medical intervention. A company owned by Muslims could deny the receipt of a pig valve to repair a damaged heart.

And so on.

I have asked this question over and over…Who in their world ever calls them on their
hypocrisy?..not the churches, business or family, friends and most organizations.

The government, that they mostly hate, will call them on it if they are lying on their taxes
or some legal issues…otherwise, it's greed is good and they're, still, the IT'S ALL ABOUT ME group.


Tikki

Calling them hypocrites doesn't seem to bother them in the least. Being hypocritical is their right. Calling them frauds, con-men and grifters seems to get more of a rise out of them.

Why do you sell merchandise from China abortion factories?

Dear Hobby Lobby:

I know that Hobby Lobby refuses to supply health insurance, as mandated by the Affordable Care Act. Your reasoning is that the ACA mandates preventive health care for women.

Hobby Lobby's products are produced in China. As you know, China forces women to use contraceptives, and have abortions.

China is also a Communist country with a government and population that has no interest in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Christians are persecuted in China. I refer you to the article that appeared in Christianity Today in February, 2013: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/february-web-only/persecution-in-china-is-very-real.html

Hobby Lobby does millions and millions of dollars of business with Communist China.

Hobby Lobby supports the government of Communist China with all the American dollars you send there.

Hobby Lobby is responsible for slave women in Communist China being forced to get abortions and use contraceptives.

Hobby Lobby pretends to be a Christian company that considers embryo life sacred.

How many abortions, contraceptives, and miscarriages have been forced on the slave women who populate the sweatshops and gulags that make Hobby Lobby's products?

Your money supports Christian persecution.

The Christian people who buy from Hobby Lobby do not want their money used to support these atrocities.

Hobby Lobby talks Christian with their mouth, but your money and business supports abortion, contraception, Christian persecution, and slavery.

To you, money is more sacred than Jesus Christ.

You are the highest form of hypocrisy.

Close your business now. Repent for your sins. Give all your sacred money away.

Pray that, somehow, you will be saved from the fires and agony of hell and damnation.

I have sent similar comments.

Too much of what we buy comes from China and other countries with similar oppressive policies forced on their citizens and too often american consumers turn the blind eye. But using the People of faith route, if they are truly people of faith...we can't let their beliefs stop at the check book. Unfortunately. little discussion happens on this kind of subject. My sister no longer patronizes Hobby Lobby or Walmart becasue of issues with China being a huge supplier of their inventory.

My beliefs on abortion and contraception its a personal choices and outright mandates or prohibition is direct assault on personal rights to decide. I haven't bought anything in Walmart in 10 years as I view Walmart as the corporation that led the charge for off-shoring of american jobs back in the 1980's and the top reason why the American Dream is almost completely gone. So its more of an economic issue for me.

We have to engage people of faith to question their own involvement in FORCED abortions and contraceptives everytime they spend a dollar on items made in China.

and spread it all over the place.

Trav

Because it's 'their own country and they have to do what they have to do,' or words to that effect. At the same time, he was supporting suppression of any abortions in the USA. In his questionable moral code, 'crimes against the fetus' are determined by borders, and business interests.

I watched Blood Diamond Pat have a meltdown on the air as Charles Taylor fell from power. Robertson was wailing how he'd invested so much of CBN monies in the business. Even his co-hosts were amazed at his very passionate display. I don't remember, but I think he shed some real tears over it.

Then he clothed it all in what a good Christian man Taylor was and being smeared by liberals in the USA. Taylor benefited Pat financially so he supported him. All for Gawd, you know.

Charles Taylor: Pat Robertson was my man in Washington
By Colum Lynch - February 4, 2010



Former Liberian President Charles Taylor, testifying in his own war crimes trial today, said that the American conservative evangelist Pat Robertson was awarded a Liberian gold-mining concession in 1999 and subsequently offered to lobby the Bush administration to support his government.

The revelations came in the midst of a U.N.-backed trial of Taylor at The Hague on 11 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity during Sierra Leone's 1990s civil war. Taylor is accused of directing a Sierra Leone rebel group, the United Revolutionary Front (RUF), in a campaign aimed at securing access to the country's diamond mines. The rebel movement stands accused of committing mass atrocities in the late 1990s in the West African country, including the mutilation of thousands of civilians.

The international prosecutors contend that Taylor offered concessions to Western individuals in exchange for lobbying work aimed at enhancing his image in the United States. The prosecution maintains that Taylor also spent $2.6 million on lobbying firms and public relations outfits in the hopes of influencing the policies of former President Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

Under cross-examination, Taylor said that Robertson had volunteered to make Liberia's case before U.S. administration officials, and had spoken directly to President Bush about Taylor. He also confirmed that Robertson's company, Freedom Gold Limited, signed an agreement to exploit gold in southeastern Liberia, but that it never generated any profit...

http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/05/charles_taylor_pat_robertson_was_my_man_in_washington

While that article I found from one google search didn't say he made any money, what he said on the air about how he'd lost CBN's money, contradicts that to me. More links:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pat-robertsons-gold-deal-african-dictator/story?id=9749341

http://www.thenation.com/article/153980/televangelist-and-warlord

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/14/825050/-Pat-Robertson-Freedom-Gold-and-Blood-Diamonds

More about Pat's business deals under the name of charity:

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/9/9/fema_promotes_pat_robertson_charity

I suspect what Robertson really meant about abortion, like Pat Buchanan had the liberty of stating on air and in books, that the reason abortion in the USA must stop was to increase the number of white babies who Gawd loves in the womb. But those Chinese babies, meh.

No priniciples are involved, profits and politics only. What a bunch of frauds. Sorry, I'm not going to be nice to the right wing religious demagogues who want this nation dragged back to the dark ages.

Pat tried to back away from his comments. This from the guy who wanted Chavez killed, who said that Haitians and New Orleans deserved Gawd's wrath visited upon them, that other locales in the USA also should not be helped for not teaching Creationism or having prayers in their schools, etc. This is the kind of Christianity the Hobby Lobby is pushing.

Pat Robertson Remarks on China Abortions
By GUSTAV NIEBUHR - April 18, 2001

The religious broadcaster Pat Robertson told a CNN interviewer on Monday that the United States should not interfere with population- control policies in China, but yesterday, sounding a note of regret, he said he should have emphasized his anti-abortion views...

In the interview, Mr. Blitzer had asked Mr. Robertson how he reconciled his support for close relations with China with complaints by conservatives that China was promoting "so-called forced abortions."

Mr. Robertson said he would not agree with such a policy. "But at the same time, they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do," Mr. Robertson said. "If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would become completely unsustainable."

After saying China risked political upheaval if unemployment made its population restive, Mr. Robertson said: "So, I think that right now they're doing what they have to do. I don't agree with forced abortion, but I don't think the United States needs to interfere with what they're doing internally in this regard."

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/18/politics/18ABOR.html

Nice whitewash by Wolfie. The Hobby Lobby and Pat have profit before people, lucre before life business plans. They should be hit by the IRS for all of this garbage. Just my cranky opinion this morning.

BTW, Sandra Fluke spoke to their game best:

They are corporations who are now saying what laws they will and will not obey, unilaterally, and ordering citizens to obey their religious beliefs, and not their own, which is a violation of the employees' 1A rights...

People do not surrender their rights as citizens when they go to work, like prisoners do. They have committed no crime to need a job. Or have they? Is that what the Hobby Lobby and other groups are saying, if you are not born independently rich, you should be punished by whatever the boss says?

Sure looks that way to me.

because most anti abortion activists wouldn't even dare to try this stuff in any of the Asian countries as the they would be ridiculed and laughed at and in China they would be chucked in jail in a second.

They are only anti abortion when its convenient and they can beg people for money to support there six figure salaries

away offering their own interpretations. And whassup ....do they hire only "Christians"? If so, is that not discrimination? They are a controlling bunch of people and totally screwed up.

Legislated law supersedes religious doctrine. How do you think the Scalia Court will rule in the Hobby Lobby case where Hobby Lobby takes the position that legislated law infringes on their religious liberty?

so we can wait and see what he says....but he does have a documented position on law and using any religion to violate it from 1990

from dailyKos

"....in a 1990 majority opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that Native Americans fired for smoking peyote as part of a religious ceremony had no right to reinstatement. It “would be courting anarchy,” Scalia wrote in Employment Division v. Smith, to allow them to violate the law just because they were “religious objectors” to it. “An individual’s religious beliefs,” he continued, cannot “excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law.”

as the ACA is law and been upheld by the SC as the law of the land...the ruling may be interesting

Thanks for posting.

a proper one from the knuckleheads around here.

I have dealt with batshit crazy conservatives and religious nutcases for years...my family has a fair share of both. The one common trait is their ability to be hypocritical while feigning sincerity. I usually call them out on it much to their displeasure and pretty much shut them up. If you want to preach a way to live in front of me, its best that YOU live that way yourself first.

I had a neighbor for years you never spoke of govt in any kind of good light...of course he was a state worker, his wife got her college degree thru federal and state grants and loans, his kids got all sorts of tax credits for education, tax credits for earned income..all the typical support that people at the lower ends that need to have some assistance with. So when I pointed out the small discrepancy between what his "beliefs" are and what appears to rank hypocrisy...his reply was " We deserve them becasue we worked for it...." I nearly busted a nut when he said that. Obviously the sense of "entitlement" is twisted. Its good for me but not for thee is pretty typical.....

Yep.

And that, "we earned it!" response is exactly the same answer I get when I point out their glaring hypocrisies, especially when they're in the middle of excoriating the PPACA amongst other Democratic policies and benefits (while being unable to point out a single Republican policy that has ever benefited the American people).

Then I end the discussion with, "You're nothing but a fraud."

That seems to really piss them off. They absolutely loathe the word "fraud" - almost as much as the word "liberal". The word "hypocrite"? Meh. Doesn't bother them. However, their sense of exaggerated piousness for themselves alone won't accept being labeled a "fraud". And that's exactly why I use it instead of hypocrite.

Welcome to DU, beachbum bob. And congrats on an excellent post!

30,000 protest emails couldn't hurt.

doubt I'll get a reply

K&R

Or what? I don't know...
White American slutty women need to be punished for their slutty behavior more than the Chinese women?