writer is just giving something to think about in a relationship.

I read that it was actually in response to some Fox News crap telling women to quit their jobs and let their husbands earn all the money (like for most of us that's even an option). In that context, that's she's giving a strong counterpoint to that I think it's a good article with some things women do need to consider.

I was in the same kind of boat but older.

I had worked my entire life, had a great career, and even went through the first husband (lasted barely 2 years) and then found Mr. Right. I quit working after baby 2. We are high income, our kids want for nothing. By the time I pay sitters and add on to his income it's not like my earnings helped us much but rather go to paying additional taxes (I made much more than him when we met but now he is at the top of his career and when I try to take a job that allows me time w/the kids it's not worth it).

So I'm late 40s and thinking about how to re-enter the workforce. Not because of divorce but because my kids are in school and I miss having my own thing to do. I don't feel respected at all as a housewife. But how do you go back after 8 years off at this age? I totally get where she's coming from. Although at least she has an excuse - she is getting a divorce and that at least gives her an easy explanation that people understand.

But only a wee bit - 40. I left my career without getting my professional license, which in hindsight was incredibly stupid. I stayed home for 8 years, then returned when the kids were in school full time.

I volunteered for a few years before going back. It was completely unrelated to my field of engineering, but it gave me something to talk about at interviews - about how I filled my time while off.

I have been helping at school/church/scouts. So at least there's that.

It makes perfect sense to me. If a woman stops working and depends on her husband, and he finds some other woman, then she ends up unemployed, with no history of employment, and no support. How is that load of crap, exactly?

Is she really complaining about having to move to a 2 bedroom apartment?

She had how many years to write?

Life sometimes really sucks.

I work PT and watch my BF's daughter when she's here and he's working. I love it. I do most of the stuff around the house. I have a degree and have always worked FT. I've never wanted children but am enjoyingy time with the little one. If everything fell apart tomorrow I guess I'd figure something out. I've been through it before and got over the "woe is me" pretty damn quick. I had nowhere to go and not too much family. Maybe she should count her blessings.

After seeing middle aged women being left by a husband having a midlife crisis or finding a younger girlfriend, I would recommend the following to a young woman. If you and your spouse decide it would be best for you to forego employment or work from home at a lower salary when you have children, I would get a post-nuptial agreement that sets out what happens down the road if the marriage doesn't last. I've seen far too many women give up their jobs, with mutual agreement from a spouse, and then find themselves in a divorce, with no viable job skills, and a judge providing two years of maintenance for them to get back on their feet.

the woman has a job and intends to continue working after the kids but she has a very difficult birth which leaves her unable to work outside the home and/or the child has health issues. This is becoming way more common than it should be.

My wife makes a considerable amount of money these days, but there were times when she opted to stay at home or whatever she did make was greatly overshadowed by what I made. I never looked at it as my money vs her money. It was always our money. We have always been a team regardless of who happens to have the bigger paycheck. We do have two separate bank accounts now and we've divided up the bills, but this is because we have a considerable amount of disposable income vs the day when we didn't and it allows us to spend money on whatever we want without having to consult with each other. I think either approach works just fine, but I never devalued my wife because she made less. Both of us have the same goals and we both contribute where and how we can.

I was fortunate in that my dad never had much use for gender roles. He changed diapers, fed us, did most of the housework, at times stayed at home while mom worked, etc. I never even thought much about gender roles growing up. It still seems like a very foreign concept to me. Oddly enough his parents were the stereotypical gender role couple, except for my grandmother was unquestionably the matriarch of the family.

How I wish I had those words, and the courage to say them, before my awful and contentious divorce. The course of history may have been altered.

--things you can do. Almost everyone faces periods of unemployment these days, and with two jobs the odds are that one of you will at least be working most of the time. My husband and I have only had one six month period where we were both unemployed, and it was miserable. Things have only gotten worse for most people since we retired.

than if you are married or shacked up with somebody. Many if not most married people have utterly NO clue how hard it is to remain single, especially in this economy. Almost all married people have the safety net of another spouse's income.

It's damned near impossible to get back on one's feet. I have been underemployed and unemployed for going on six years, with NO end in sight and NO spouse to cushion the blow.

the only end in sight is when I can start collecting social security. That's still 2 years away minimum, although I'm hoping to hold out for at least 4 years.

Luckily (?) my 20s were equally rough. But after all I went through and how hard I worked, I never dreamed I'd be starting over at 50+.

a book that was published over 30 years ago and made a point of insulting women for the choices they made either staying home or "choosing" low-paid careers instead of some high-paid corporate job. That book just pisses me off to no end these days (at the time I thought Colette Dowling had some good points, but I know better now).

I put myself through school to get a "career" only to have it stolen from me at age 53. It is virtually impossible to get back on track.

What the author doesn't seem to grasp is that you really have NO control over your fate. Employers can absolutely kick your career or job out from under you. It's a safe bet she has a lot higher standard of living having been married before than yours truly. Not that I regret not getting married, but this economy is brutal to those without the safety net of a spouse/live in.

I was hanging in through the high tech crash, but 9/11 did me in. There was absolutely nothing out there for a couple years, and only off and on crap jobs since then. In the interim, I've burned through my retirement savings, built up student loan debt retraining for a nonexistant re-do in health care, and have been living check to check for several years now.

Believe me, as an ugly single 60 year old woman, I know how brutal this economy is for us. Actually, I'm marked for dumping right now at one of my two part time jobs. I've known I was marked from very early on, but they just upped the ante last night so I know my days are now numbered. In recent months, they've walked 4 people out the door that I know of without warning, in 3 cases going back in time to find cause. Which is funny because we are a right to work state, so they can fire without cause. A 5th says she quit, but she may be saving face. Others that I don't know may have been disappeared as well. They're going to replace us with temporaries so they don't have to pay benefits, so they're doing it a few people at a time to make the transition smoother. They think we're too stupid to notice their game plan.

ALL states have "at-will" employment. Only if you work under a contract does "at-will" not apply.

"At will" means the employer can release you for any reason or no reason. As an employee you can leave for any reason or no reason.

"Right-to-work" means closed shops are banned.

People often confuse RTW and "at-will" when they are two different things.

In my case neither applied, but that didn't stop the employer from breaking the law.

And except for food and medical, all other expenses pretty much stay the same.

Wondering if there is any way that single women could hook up with each other in a marriage-like situation. If you aren't lesbian or bisexual, sex need not be part of the arrangement. Back it up with a legal document?

It's just not satisfactory.

I should never have had to be in this predicament in the first place. I have a sister who is 73 and has to work by driving cars for Hertz. She had the option of taking her own Social Security or her late first husband's--she got the latter which is more than I will be getting when I hit 62.

I also will be screwed over because I have a state pension where the state didn't pay into Social Security, and I have only about 24-25 years in Social Security in "substantial employment." That's because of WEP, which is outright theft of Social Security benefits to public employees.

education or work skill development if they are staying at home.

Far too many marriages end in divorce and there is no reason to think that your particular marriage will survive. So, while you're home with the kids, take some online classes, do a little part-time work while your husband stays with the kids, or some such. Never allow yourself to be stranded, with no education or work skills, with kids who depend on you for everything, and an ex who may or may not pay child and spousal support.

It's not my business to tell consenting adults how to arrange their marriages, but I think that women who give up everything and rely on their husbands 100% are in for a particularly cruel shock when the bottom falls out.

FIFTY PERCENT of marriages in the U.S. end in divorce. And one never knows either, if/when their spouse will become sick, injured or disabled, either. Having viable work skills is a MUST for women at all times in her life. It's crucial for all the reasons given here (not to mention so that she can support herself and her kids if anything - ANYTHING - happens). It only makes sense for women to plan to work most/all their lives in a formally paying job of some kind whether it's a work-at-home arrangement, part time, or outside the home. And keep the skills/training up - go to workshops, training classes, take online courses - meet new people and network a little - with others outside your neighborhood circle of other married women or moms.

It's dangerous for women - any woman - married or not, mom or not - to isolate herself in financial dependence on a man. It's nice when it works, but too often it just doesn't - for whatever reason.

Sounds like she worked hard and landed on her feet. Being a licensed therapist was my dream job, but I took a job forty years ago with plans for it to put me through school, and that never happened. I'm still working for the same employer.

Now that my job is being replaced by technology and most openings in my field are minimum wage, my gut response to her article is, "Cry me a river."

My momma was married to a controlling, abusive alcoholic who didn't want her working outside the home or even having a driver's license or friends. Her advice to me was to never be dependent on your husband.

I don't think she wrote this article so people could feel sorry for her.
So I am not sure why the response to her article would be "cry me a river."

"That, and the fact that I didn't build a career early on that was more lucrative. If I had, and I'd kept it, I wouldn't be moving to a 2-bedroom apartment. I wouldn't be swallowing Klonopin at night to quell the harpy-like thoughts about what happens when my savings run out. I would be firmly planted in fiscal security and the comfort of knowing I could one day retire. I would be breathing at least a few times a day."

"Now, 10 years after the divorce, I am a licensed therapist with a median-income day job and no child support. As grueling as my job is, and as exhausted as I am when I slog through my front door in the evening, I cling to it for the health insurance, the retirement plan, the paid sick time, and the fact that, without it, my kids and I would be sleeping in my dented Prius."

I know many people who would feel so blessed to have median-income day jobs and a savings account with more than $5 in it.

People like her piss me off to no end. She also is under the mistaken belief you have any control over circumstances, but in fact you do NOT.

Never, ever, depend on anyone to take care of you. Ever. Be self-sufficient.

And she was right. Her advice was explained by how you can never tell what the future holds in store for you. Even if happily married, an illness or death can change everything.

And if you cannot take care of yourself at any time, then you are at the absolute mercy of others.

So can not having any customers if you are self-employed.

There is NO such thing as "security" unless you are well within the top one-percent of households.

10-yr old daughter the same thing. To get her education and work (as I did) but not give it up.

I stopped working just before my first child was born (eighteen years ago), and it was the best decision I ever made. I was in a decent field, but hated my job, and wanted to stay home with the kids.

I understand where the OP is coming from, but her advice wouldn't work for everyone. Certainly not for me.

She had those 9 years to chase that dream. Wasn't that a job?

and discovered she couldn't hack it. At least she got that chance. Lots of aspiring writers never do.

or a live-in. That's why I didn't pursue freelance writing. I knew I couldn't support myself on it.

I have a nephew who is doing it and has been doing it a few years, but guess what? He is living with a girlfriend now who happens to be a lot more financially secure than he is.

She quit her job to chase her dreams of being a free-lance writer and SAHM. It lasted 9 wonderful years. Then it ended.


Sounds like a story millions of others, both men and women, are able to tell.

I've been married 30 years and have been a stay at home wife/mother for 25 of those years and, although I don't like the tone of this article, there IS something to be taken from it.

IF I had it all to do over again, I would have sought part time or temporary employment during my long stint with motherhood, even though we didn't need the extra money. Why? Because now, after the kids are grown, I would LOVE to work, at least part time, in something that challenges me a bit. I've found that nobody wants to hire someone whose skills are over 20 years old. I'm bored.

Keep your skills sharp and your experience current, ladies. You'll be glad you did down the road.

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I chose to retire to the bush - boredom is never an issue - lots of chores to do, and some (like chopping and hauling wood) GOTTA be done.

So I chose a physical life - cutting large lawns, building greenhouses, gardening - mostly for food, exploring the bush around me . . .

and so on . . .

yeah - not for you, or most others I suspect.

Bored, no job prospects etc?

Try volunteer work - local food banks, clothing drives, whatever.

Realize by "getting out there" - even with little or no pay, you are "networking" with real humans beings - many who are in the same boat as you are.

By getting out there, you will become aware of job opportunities that never hit the papers, job sites on the web, and so on.

As a previous recipient in need of Food Bank services, I landed a few short-time jobs from listening to the people there.

Also, one of the volunteers I was fond of stopped showing up - BECAUSE SHE FOUND A JOB - just by word of mouth from her clients and fellow workers.

Step one?

GET OUT THERE!

Volunteer work can be very satisfying in itself - just being in the company of other humans has its rewards (most of the time).

Enjoy your search - embrace it - and don't forget to enjoy the scenery along the way.

Old saying:

"In your journey through life, keep your eyes upon the donut, not upon the hole."



CC

My best friend has been a stay at home mom with disabled (autistic) twins. Now that the girls are teenagers, she has gone back to college and will be an RN a year from now. She is alot more confident now that she will be able to support them if her marriage ever fails. If her marriage doesn't fail she can still work part time nights/weekends and contribute to the household.

Married women quit their jobs for a number of reasons. Maybe those jobs are unfulfilling. Maybe they secretly want to do other things. All they need is the free time to pursue their real dreams.

This woman pretty much frittered away nine years of opportunities. It sounds like she had daycare options. She had the time to go to yoga. Why, instead, wasn't she pursuing an advanced degree in a cherished interest? Why wasn't she building a home-based business? She wrote freelance, but did she ever finish a novel or two? Instead she treated writing like a hobby, not a real career.

NINE YEARS she had. Many working women would love to have nine years to chase their dreams.

Oy.

I came of age in the 70s. We knew not to fall for this crap.

My sister married a great guy, and over 30 years and 2 wonderful kids later they are still happily married. But she kept her career, working a P/T job-sharing professional position. She got board certified in a specialty.

Quitting work to stay home would have been sheer stupidity in her mind and mine. This is what happens when parents raise their daughters to think that their fate lies with ANY man.

husband has much more earning power. It's been too tempting for me to just stay home and manage on a slightly tighter budget, rather than working full time to bring home my whopping contribution of an additional 1/7th of my husband's income. What I should do is figure out what I want to do when I grow up, and go back to school for it--but we will have two kids in college for at least the next four years, so that will have to wait. In the meantime, I'm getting further along in my forties...oh well.

Quit your job, don't quit your job - one size doesn't fit all.

was that she did not value herself and the choices she made because she bought into the "wife of leisure" image - rather than seeing the choices she made to be a stay at home mom and free-lance writer as contributions to her own career and to her family.

I made a similar choice, but I viewed it far differently. I taught for 11 years, then chose to be a stay-at-home mom until my daughter entered kindergarten. During that time I was also a writer (a stringer for the local paper), a mediator for the local court system, a crafter, and became an enrolled agent (qualified to represent taxpayers before the IRS). My spouse and I both knew it was important both to my emotional health and eventual return to the outside the home workforce to keep some contact with that world so once our daughter stopped working she cared for our daughter in the evening.

I re-entered the workforce in my 40s, and have used what I had done during my at-home-mom time to my advantage numerous times since then. In other words I treated the skills I learned and used during that "wife of leisure" time as valuable assets, rather than as a bad choice I made.

For years I have been the main breadwinner in the family (something we never expected) and am currently nearly the sole breadwinner (my spouse has not been employed in nearly a decade - she currently does a lot of pro bono/charity work with a small smattering of paid clients). We always assumed she would be the main bread winner - and whatever income I earned doing "cause" work would merely supplement her more traditionally business orientation.

So - we aren't where I expected we would be - my recent job change back to academia (which I find much more compatible than the world of business) leaves us living on half the income we've been living on, and I wish my spouse could find employment she is capable of doing and would enjoy (the reason she has been largely unemployed is the development of cognitive issues she is unaware of - so she believes she is capable of doing more than she is - and only applies for jobs which are beyond her current skill set).

But I wouldn't change any of our decisions along the way - especially not taking 8 years out of the work force to be a full time, at home, parent and then three years more to add another degree to my belt.

That speaks more to me than this. . . this is for those who get an MRS. immediately after their B.A. / B.S. or in tandem.

It's great advice for a 22 year old wide eyed young woman - but . . .

For those of us that marry later, with our own assets, wealth, and advanced careers, etc. etc. I would say a little diffferently. Go part full time NOT because you EXPECT a failed marriage -

But because you don't want to lose your edge or have some woman re-entering the workforce sucker punch you from behind.

I have friends my age married and divorced. Three of the 9 divorced women actually stated they could Always Get Divorced prior to getting married 12, 26, and 30 years ago.

But those in my circle like me - who waited and made sure, turned down proposals, ran for the hills from scrubs - we married with one intent. Till death do us part. Seriously- when you give up your traveling, monied, lifestlye for domestic ball and chain at 38-43 - it's like a radical change in lifestlye for women. And we make this decision EXTREMELY carefully because well . . .

We have a lot more to lose than some 22 year old kid.

Sort of rambling - but it speaks to an expectation that we all got married and settle down at a very young and naive age -

But some of us lived big first - and our precautions are very very much different.

a grand way to share a life together…

But I will admit…luck in finding each other had a bit in the success.


The Tikkis

Good for the woman's group.

47 years ago puts you in my mom's age group. . . She just turned 66. She met my dad at 20 - married a week after graduation - 2 kids before the age of 25. . . followed him around the world - THEN used her degree.

My mother drilled into me:

You NEVER have to get married.
You NEVER have to have kids.

It's a would be nice - whether you are a woman or a man. But she severely impressed upon me that she really hoped I would not even THINK of marriage until I was in my 30's. Just because of the awesome opportunities that started with Generation X women. The Boomer women opened so many doors for us while 'having it all' - we should be enjoying the fruits of those doors being opened.

Now her mother and grandmother - really pushed her to go to University. It was a big deal. It was something certainly my great grandmother (married at 16 - almost 17 - as most young women did at that time) would have loved to do. She ended up marrying and divorcing my great grandfather 3 times - then her "fourth" husband stuck for 30 years. She impressed upon me: Better single and having a real life than sorry and divorced.

She was of a different era - but really loved seeing my world so open to me - a world that got slammed shut on her in 1919.

Me - I consider myself just as lucky as you! I do. I'd rather have 5 years with my Giovanni or hell - even 5 minutes - than 50 with a dud guy.

that would be very much harder today for a young couple to do.

When our two boys…born 8 years apart for financial reason..were
nearly out of High School the Mr. paid for me to go to University and I did and
then worked 7 years at a higher pay scale then ever and loved the work.

Then we retired…and are comfortable, not rich. We made some really great
decisions along the way and some duds.
But being with each other was the best decision we ever made.


The Tikkis

of anything thanks to the worsening economy. Try being a lifelong single person who thought she had a career only to have it STOLEN out from under her.

It's downhill from there, especially if one is over 50 years old.

The problem isn't so much with marital status but with the lousy economy.

Where it's everyone for themselves.

Whatever each half of a couple decides to do in terms of working, not working, or whatever, it's their decision and they owe no-one an explanation.

I decided to have no kids unless I could support them alone. The divorce rate is that high.

My father died when I was eight. He was only forty. My mother was left with four children to care for. She was a teacher, but she had not worked for over 15 years. She managed to get a factory job that paid 95 cents an hour. She attended college classes at night to meet the requirements to regain her teaching certificate.

This childhood experience greatly influenced my desire to always be able to support myself and my children. I always worked, even when my children were young. This served me well when my spouse decided after 26 years that he didn't want to be married to me anymore. Having a stable career at that point in my life was much better than trying to enter, or re-enter the work force after age fifty with no recent skills.

I agree that this is a family's choice, but I believe a young woman should be carefully consider her own future when making this choice.

get an education that will enable them to support themselves and whatever children they might have, should the marriage end.

That is something that Mr Pipi stressed time and again with his 3 daughters, all of whom don't just have JOBS...they have careers that are pretty much recession-proof for the most part.
They don't NEED a man to support them. If they lose their husbands through widowhood or divorce, they have the means to support themselves.

And if they had married abusive men (which they didn't), they wouldn't feel they had to stay because they had no other choice.

This in stark contrast to something my (born in 1934, became a 1950s housewife) mom said to me when my own daughter wanted to quit school at 16. Her response to that was, she doesn't need to go to school...she can get married.

Well, as many of us have probably seen, that doesn't always work out very well.

But if I die on the streets living in a cardboard box then it was still a hell of a ride and well worth it. (Galaxy Quest's Fred Kwan, "That was a hell of a thing!!!&quot

Maybe my siblings, kids, and their husbands, wives, and significant others enjoy or tolerate my company enough that I could never be homeless. I don't require much more maintenance than a family dog. I can subsist on a diet of rice and beans and random veggies and fruits forever. I buy my clothes in thrift stores, I find my treasures in the trash, I'll avoid expensive medical care, and I often agree to work a reasonable dog would refuse. I have a drivers license, I can answer phones, I can cook, I can fix and clean toilets, and I can repair automobiles or find an honest mechanic.

The backstop of my life is, that as a young man, I've been mentally ill and homeless. I know how to be one of the invisible people, it's my natural state. Modern meds have helped immensely and they are (at last!) generic. I've experienced some rough times when the meds that kept me sane and breathing were costing over $500 a month. Those days are past.

There are many aspects of our modern society that are extremely broken.

That the job applications and resumés of anyone who's not currently or very recently employed are thrown in the trash is one of those broken things.