When the original ACA passed Obama said you can keep your old policy. But that was based on the policy in effect at that time. The insurance companies responded by trying to fit everybody into a new policy. Making Obama a liar post-fact.

...and he's not.

The underlining premise of Obamacare is a more equitable distribution of health care costs. The ONLY way that would be possible is if low risk/low cost individuals contributed equally. What this means is that men will subsidize pregnancy care. Young will subsidize elderly care, etc., etc, etc. Sadly, our public is too stupid and/or too selfish to support this if it affects them. Obama said what he needed to say in order to get the bill passed.

Sadly, as I knew they would, the public (Democrats included) raised hell when it finally dawned on them that shared responsibility means they share some of the costs. Even more sadly, Obama caved to the pressure and gave a one year extension.

I see three options here:
1. You are trying to be obtuse
2. You have had your head in the sand, or
3. You damn well what I am saying is true and are just lying.

The position was always that when the ACA passed all existing plans were grandfathered and would not have to be cancelled. People could keep them, the ACA would not force them off.

THAT WAS TRUE.


Only the most obtuse of idiots could extend that statement to really meaning that nothing in all the universe would cause any private insurance company to decide to stop offering those plans ever, and NOTHING would cause the people on them to no longer have them.


Unfortunately the nation appears to be overflowing with obtuse idiots. That does not however make Obama a liar on the issue. It did make it politically necessary for him to "apologize" to the clueless masses however.

I just told you that. A bunch of uninformed morons got outraged that the exact thing that was said would happen (lost plans that were NOT grandfathered because they were instituted after the ACA passed and were non complying or which were simply cancelled by their insurance carriers) happened. Decided that Obama had told them that wouldn't happen when only the stunningly obtuse could believe that... and Obama gave them a cookie to shut them up.

Of the 5 people I know who lost theirs, all had their exact same plans for 3+ years.

the law grandfathered all existing plans. So the ONLY possible reasons for ANY plan to be dropped were:

1: They were new plans that were non complying. "New" including plans that they say existed before but which they changed in non-complying ways that caused them to lose grandfathered status when they knew damn well that would happen, thus making it an elective choice of the insurance company to make the plans non complying and not anything the ACA made them do.
2: The insurance company just decided to stop offering them. And probably decided that it would be convenient to blame it on Obamacare even if the law didn't require them to drop it.


Period.

Due to normal changes people made prior to the law change, the government estimated 80% of plans would lose their grandfathered status. Changes such as:

1. Changing employer contribution by more than 5%
2. Changing co-pays from $15 to $30.


Basically, damn near any change would cause the grandfather status to go away. Apparently, you believe our politicians were unbelievable idiots who couldn't see this coming with what was written in the law.

Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

The law allowed reasonable levels of changes to be made to plans without them losing their grandfathered status.

the fact that before the law insurance companies regularly made unreasonable changes to plans... like hiking the premiums by unjustifiable amounts, is totally fucking irrelevant. When the ACA was passed every insurance company was told "this is how you can change plans and keep the grandfathered. This is how you change plans to make them non complying."


If any insurance company changed plans to make them non complying that was THEIR decision to do so. The ACA didn't make them do it. And appealing to "but they were just changing them the way they always did before" is purely stupid. The whole fucking point of the law was to make them STOP doing what they were always doing before!!!!!!!!

in a shitty plan. Now, go ahead and say that all of them are now paying more under the ACA. Given that something like 0.6% of Americans fall into that group, I would say that you stumbled upon a dramatic statistical abnormality, or you aren't playing with facts.

But of those five, who have had the exact same plans for 3+ years, have any of them ever had insurance companies change those policies before? Raise the rates? Change coverage specs? No? Do they have any bridges to sell me too?

Those must be the unicorn policies, 'cause I've been in the individual insurance market my whole life and I get one of those nice little letters every year: the rates go up, the deductibles go up and the coverage goes down. Every. Year.

But I totally loved those policies and the company that issued them...which I was stuck with because of pre-existing conditions (another bonus was being unable to relocate to another state 'cause of those same conditions). I've give, like, anything to be in that situation again.

that is correct.

Same " Obtuse Idiots " who voted for him twice to the promise of transparency, honesty and Equality ? Who's cluless, or a resident of the bubble of Misanthropic Sycophant Monsters, UGH !!

As in the ACA HAS NOT and WILL NOT EVER force you off a plan you had when it was passed that you wanted to keep. All plans were grandfathered on passage. That's the fucking law.

If you lost it it was because of your freaking insurance company taking informed action to cause it to go away on their own (then often bullshitting and blaming it on Obamacare).

Understand? Or do I need to start explaining the obtuse angle here again?

fits Obamacare to a T, though you'll consider Dictionary.com incomplete or vague .




http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obtuse?s=t

so in other words you have nothing but instead of simply acknowledging your error you whipped out a random quote that has to do with the law but has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual topic of discussion since this is not in any way an issue of enforcement.

Congratulations.

Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 10:23 PM - Edit history (1)

A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a
falsehood.

He clearly intended his statement to correctly reflect the way ACA would work. Insurance companies decided they wouldn't allow this.

Insurance distributes the costs of whatever is insured, driving or whatever else; that's what it does. We who don't have auto accidents, but are insured, subsidize those who DO have accidents, and those who do not become pregnant, because they chose not to or cannot, subsidize those who do become pregnant, and those who don't get cancer subsidize those who do get cancer. That is the way insurance works, and much of the public probably understands this.

get caught up in the gopropaganda soundbytes. Even on this board. In this case "he lied". Not true.

Thank you, elleng~

Thanks for the 'heads up.'

See my new posts in 'Photography???'

CAN'T be a 'liar' post-fact. A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a
falsehood.

POTUS was mistaken as to the future effects of the ACA, and insurance companies caused those statements to not come to pass by changing policies and informing their insureds that they could no longer maintain them.

bent on making "Obama lied" stick.

" Mistaken " .

The new one is much more attractive and things have changed in the 7 years I've been in it. Even without the subsidy. Overall however, the insurance provider has come out ahead on the premiums. That's OK by me because it means I'm generally healthy.

I have this peeve, I guess you'd call it. I cannot stand to see bullshit passed off as fact and other people just lap it up.

Obama said, during the selling phase before the bill was passed, that if you like your insurance plan, you can keep it. He knew it wasn't so, but said it anyway. No matter how you slice that, it is a lie.

Claiming something, promising something, as true that you know is false is a lie. It is the very definition of a lie.

Let's be honest here.

So far millions have been forced off of the plans they had. Tens of millions more will probably be forced off of the plans they had when the employer mandate kicks in. That clearly is the reason the employer mandate was pushed back until after the '14 elections - to minimize the effect of that reality in terms of votes at the polls.

Peddling a known falsehood as a truth is a lie.

Sorry, but that's what it is.

All because he said you can keep your insurance plan. What a bunch of BS the media keeps pushing. Obama is the most truthful politician I know.