Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 08:20 PM - Edit history (1)

In our town they are downtown, where day laborers have been for generations waiting to be picked up, so it's not entirely new.

I think it has expanded from seasonal farm work to year round construction and, who knows, maybe anything.

Lots of people hire them, people who pay them as little as $5/hour and maybe less, to do jobs that rake in much bigger money. Roofing, concrete, demolition, landscaping, painting, there is no limit really.

I do not believe they are in the system, I believe it is entirely off the books.

I don't think it's legal, but I don't think anyone is interested in enforcing any applicable laws.

They are paid very little but also live on very little. It wouldn't be enough for most Americans but by putting more than one family in a small apartment, sharing a car or walking, cooking at home, etc., I think they get by.

Homeowners and contractors benefit, I guess, but I really think everyone loses in the end.

ETA, I'd prefer that the jobs still get done, but with a combination of youth-skill building programs and legal guest-worker programs, on the books and with safety measures in place, as well as benefits.

Everything will cost a little more, and that's as it should be considering what it would provide.

Taxes need to be paid. Records need to be kept. Even timecards need to be kept for some years (2?).

Plus there are things like worker's compensation if someone gets hurt. Time and a half for overtime or holidays, not to mention safety when it comes to working conditions and scheduled breaks.


There is a limit on casual labor. I would need to look it up but I think it is something like $300.00 a year per employee. This day labor crap is just one more way to exploit workers.


This is just one reason why we need immigration reform. Those people deserve the benefits that being legally employed would bring. They, and the people employing them, also need to contribute into the tax pool their fair share.

Someone, usually a contractor, pulls up and says how many he needs and how much he's paying, in cash.

I bought a home last February, and needed a crew to help me move my furniture. I hired the neighbor next door to drive the truck, who spoke Spanish, and we went to the local place where day laborers were looking for work.

My driver/neighbor simply asked if anyone wanted to work moving furniture and then negotiated the pay for doing so for the 3 guys we figured we needed. (My neighbor and I discussed what I was willing to pay before we left for the negotiation.)

Now, I only used them to load the truck, and waited for my son to get home from work to unload at the new house. I was really uncomfortable with the idea that people I didn't know would know where I just moved to. After all, I'm a widow with a young daughter alone. I really didn't think it wise to allow strangers to know everything we owned, and where we moved it all to - 2 women alone.

And, frankly, I'm glad I was cautious. I went back to the old location the next day to finish up cleaning it and checking that we didn't leave anything behind, and it was clear that someone had spent the night at the house. Several someones, actually. And these crazy crosses were hanging from the fan cords in every room. To say I was spooked is putting it mildly.

Oh, and why would they be willing to work on Thanksgiving? That's an American holiday which few of the day laborers celebrate at all.

If someone offered a flat rate or if there was negotiation, and how you knew who would do what kind of work.

Thanks for that perspective.

at least they do around here.

They start outrageously high, we start outrageously low and we end up right where I planned to pay them anyway.

I didn't mind paying top dollar, frankly. It was a 2 story house we were moving out of and I hated those stairs with a passion, so expected to pay someone top dollar to carry heavy furniture down them.

I got 4 days notice on closing, so I didn't have time to hire the professional movers I planned to use and got a quote from. And, I had no intention of asking them to change the closing date! I did, though, have a quote from them so knew what to expect to pay.

who generally know who is skilled or semi skilled or unskilled. Some of them are undocumented and are paid under the table.

This is a sanctuary city so the cops don't check them out around here for green cards or work permits.

And it's a sizable little community. They line the street for about a quarter mile. That's just outside the Home Depot. I've also seen various corners in more industrial areas where a group of 5-10 will hang out. I'm kind of curious to know if different groups of laborers develop a system of turf.

lumber stores like Lowe's and Home Depot. There used to be a few indie lumber yards where they gathered but we all know how that's been going.

I've never seen police harassment, either, but they're prevented from trying it in this town.

People come by with trucks and pick them up on the corner for work for that day only. The work might be in landscaping or other low-skilled manual labor. They are paid in cash. That, BTW, is irrespective of immigration status. Many undocumented immigrants have jobs where they pay all the taxes we do yet receive none of the benefits.

I guess the reason I wondered about immigration status is because of the heavy Latino demographic. Not only at this Home Depot, but in other areas around East Bay, the laborers I see hanging around are Latino only. I wasn't sure what kind of cultural intersection was happening there and whether or not legal status was at least partially driving it.

but that is not how all or even most undocumented immigrants work.

Homeless men and women are prime day laborers. In the city where I used to live, places that would recruit day laborers would tell people to meet at a certain place at a certain time (usually really, really, really early in the morning). Some would bring transportation to the shelter, but that was rare. The recruiter would then take the workers to the job site (in my city, this was some miles away at an air freight company). There, they would work -- and work hard -- upwards of 12 hours per day, or more. They would come back late at night.

I heard many stories about how they couldn't take restroom breaks, and sometimes the pay didn't come at the end of the shift. (When that happened, the anger was not disguised.) No, as far as I know, these wages weren't taxed, and I think (if I remember) they may have been just above minimum. Not enough to support hardly anybody, but it was a day's wage for a day's work.

I think both the air freight place and the recruiter exploited the living hell out of these vulnerable folks. But to me it showed just how much they all wanted to work, regardless of the conditions.

That was one of my concerns. I know there are various reasons for wanting work to be off the book, but I was curious to know how these laborers were being treated.

Not in the system. Not taxed. Low pay. Usually working on building sites, or doing yard work, or other similar things. Carting cinderblocks and sacks of concrete, carrying hods of bricks, maybe mixing mortar, unskilled work that you don't need a skilled mason or carpenter for, mowing lawns, trimming hedges, and that sort of thing. At least this is how it was in Atlanta, where you could see parking lots along Buford Highway with dozens of day labourers waiting for some construction foreman to come along and say how many men he needed that day. This was a few years back, but I don't expect it's changed much, and it's probably very similar in other places.

Thanks for the response =)

Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

"professional looking clothes" are typically the bosses and you do the dealing through them for what they need paid for a job. He then is the supervisor of the number of guys. You agree on an amount/day and he will most likely bring his entire crew as it is based on the entire job not an hourly wage for each. You will not deal with the individuals, but instead their crew leader and pay him a sum for the job done, what he pays his guys is really never known.

Most skilled trade undocumented immigrants will typically work for $300 a day of which they will bring their helper and take $200 for themselves and give $100 to the helper. A day is typically 8-10 hours long, so the skilled trade guy will make $20/hr cash and his helper will make $10.00/hr cash for 10 hours worth of work.

$300 a day is pretty common for skilled craftsman and his helper and a lot of time most jobs will be 3-10 days long.

Who is hiring them? I really hate to say this as I will probably get flamed, but it's most general contractors needing help. I've worked this field in the past and to actually get a young guy to show up on time, give you 8 hours worth of work and pay him $10.00/hr is not gonna happen here in the States. That type of work is "to good for them" and most are pretty lazy. They will not go into in a sense that "If I learn these things over the period of a few years, show up to work, do my job and learn that I will be making $20.00 an hour in a year or so" and will get regular raises along the route to $20.00 and hour+. If they learn the trade and become proficient at it and can work on their own then there is no reason why they can't be making $30.00 an hour in 3-5 years.

The trades in the U.S are hurting for qualified people. Our young guys simply refuse to work for $10.00/hr starting out and put in the time to learn a trade (even though they are "green" and absolutely know nothing as it takes 6 months to get a clue). If you look at it like an "education" over the 2 years you are a helper then it's a really good deal as you will never go without having work on some level. Nope the guys want to start at $20.00/hr, lay out all night drunk, show up late and maybe put in 3-4 hours worth of work. The Latino's will roll in give you 110% all day every day and make anywhere from $1000.00 - $500 a week in cash.

Just trying to show you what I have seen, your mileage may vary.

I appreciate the perspective you've provided. It never crossed my mind about the crew organization, though it does make sense. Among the crowded waiting areas, there are distinct groups that stand apart from one another.

Thanks for that.

Not to mention some of them are driving that truck full of tools 120 miles or more a day to get to jobsites.

Some of what you outline was true ten or fifteen years ago but things have changed a lot in the trades over the last decade and little of it for the good.

$20/hr after a year's experience in the trades is just ludicrous, maybe if your daddy owns the contracting firm.

They only needed to show up at the country clubs and would be sent out on jobs with rich guys who wanted someone to carry their bags. They got paid at the end of the day. It didn't matter if they showed up for work or not, they wouldn't get fired so it was an ideal job for someone who couldn't hold down a regular job.

I suspect the Mexican workers you are talking about don't want a regular job either where the migra might catch up with them. Ordinarily construction workers would be hired out of union halls, but I suppose some employers who don't want to pay union wages prefer picking workers at places like Home Depot. Actually, my new neighbors who are building a house from the bottom up had workers there the whole Thanksgiving weekend including Thanksgiving Day. I guess they are building on weekends. Fortunately today there was finally peace and quiet.

I assume we're looking at non-union wages, but I was wondering just how low that pay was.

but here goes!

Most would hire out of a Union Hall, but in a sense the Union's are not really pre-qualifying their workers. For instance, it is pretty common in some states to be able to go cough up your $200-$400 and get your Union card. I've seen helpers do this as they didn't want to work for $10.00 an hour to learn the ropes so they went and got their card via using cash to pay for it. Well then a contractor goes to a Union Hall and hires a couple of supposedly skilled trades guys and ends up with a guy that has never even done that type of work but calls himself a "Union Carpenter" and you get him for $20-$30/ hr and you have just wasted your money. I personally know of a Pipe Fitter that paid for his card and had never done anything in his life that would remotely qualify him as a Pipe Fitter (he worked baking in a bakery) and he ended up with plenty of work. Most of the time he was simply asked by everyone including the hiring outfit to simply stand around and not touch anything as he is pretty worthless and never turned a wrench in his life....he got "fire guard" duty, but he was making $28.00/ hr for being a pipe fitter.

Most skilled undocumented workers I know that are really skilled will make more than the union guys of the same trade. Most general contractors will pay pretty decent wages for a skilled person as it eliminates so many headaches on a job vs getting someone that is skilled only by title.

I have worked all over the U.S. We will actually call certain workers (undocumented workers) pay for them and their helper bus tickets (that is how they prefer to travel), bring them onto a job for 10 days or so and pay for every expense that they have (Lunch, Dinner (Usually a $25.00 steak house meal), Motel Room, Alcohol & Snacks for the motel room etc (and only 2 to a room) and pay them $300-$400 a day for them and their helper. For the 10 days or so they are not out a dime. We've tried hiring local guys and letting them travel, but it typically ends up that in 3-5 days they are afraid of their wife or girlfriend cheating on them and they "need to go back home"..seen all kinds of stupid excuses. Typically on the road even a helper is paid $15/hr and all expenses paid and he is earning that wage/hr on the truck ride or plane ride there.

I will admit that most are not like the friend I work for, so he probably pays more than most as when he bids jobs he refuses to do them for cig and beer money like a lot of guys will. But when it comes to paying for good workers he does not mind one bit.

I've always figured it was contracted construction-type work for low pay. I was just looking for some confirmation. I worry they're being exploited.

are on their game, don't think for one moment that they are being exploited in a sense of low wages when it comes to construction trades and dealing with skilled workers. Sure there are good and bad workers in every group and the bad ones that are worthless will make $8.00 an hour cash, but the good ones will make pretty decent money.

Even for instance how a lot of folks think the automobile manufacturers that moved operations to Mexico are exploiting those workers.....I have been to Mexico to an automotive manufacturer, starting wages are around $12.00/hr and every day there are lines down the street just hoping that the company will let them fill out an application and maybe get hired...I mean lines of people, several hundred every day. $12.00/hr is a really good wage in Mexico. I have a Mexican friend who owns a small fabricating shop and he makes around $60K a year as the owner.....he is the "king" around town, when he walks the streets he is greeted like a movie star, he has a 1100 sq ft house that is a "castle".

I think a lot of folks that don't hang around our southern neighbors think they are naive or ignorant, they are not. I've spent some time in Brownsville TX working and for the most part it might as well be Mexico (I'd say that only 40% of the population speak any English) and they are a vibrant talented group of people that are proud and intelligent and down right pretty cool ass folks!

The lowest I have ever actually known of an undocumented worker making was $10.00 here in the U.S. I mainly come from a construction background and manufacturing/Industry background though and the migrant farm workers or landscaping ones may be paid less.

And all Americans are lazy, good for nothing layabouts.

I don't normally do this but damn...

exploit everyone?

Damn.

Just for shits and giggles how many times have you ever seen an American citizen standing outside a Home Depot looking for work on a daily basis? Outside of the poster below I personally can't say that I have ever seen single one that goes this route to get work. There is work there if one wants it.

Grapes of Wrath by Stienbeck also works.

It is a charity. They register people who comprise their labor pool. Usually homeless or living in a shelter. I've used them many times. I call the Club, describe what work is to be done and the date and time I want the work done. They assign one (or more if I need) of their members and give me an hourly rate to pay -- they determine the hourly rate based on the degree of difficulty or special work experience required. For example, I paid more for the furniture movers and house painter than I did for gardening (pulling weeds).

My obligation as the person obtaining the worker is to pay them in cash, for a minimum of 4 hours work and give them one meal. I also go to the transit center to pick the worker up and return him/her to the transit center when the work day is over. I pay nothing to the Millionairs Club, only to the worker. I don't know how the MC is set up regarding taxes and workers insurance.

I know commercial employers get away with a bologna sandwich but I always cook a full meal, including dessert. The workers always tell me they get better meals from homeowners. I also don't dock them for lunch break and if they have done a good job (they always do) I give them a tip.

The first couple of times I used them, it puzzled me why they didn't want to work past 3:30 or 4:00. Then I found out that they wanted to be back to the shelter before the shelter was full for the night.

called the day laborer program. We do pay the workers but we also pay a fee to the program to cover taxes and workers comp, etc.

There are also freelance day laborers like those described in the OP and I've hired a few of those guys to in a pinch. Those times that I've ended up purchasing more at the lumber/hardware store than I intended.

there are day laborers hanging around Home Depot, etc, looking to pick up some work. I have never used them.

I'm an old lady alone all day (daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter work and granddaughter also goes to college). I appreciate that the Millionaires Club registers its workers and only registered workers are assigned out for work. When I pick them up at the transit center, they have a form filled out by MC and signed, identifying the worker. You don't know who you are picking up in front of a store or on some street corner.

We never ask for a handout
Or more than our fair share of pay
Downtown you all know where we stand out
Looking for work by the day
You don’t ask why our farms were abandoned
Or of our choice between vida y muerte
Or why we would take such a gamble
por las esperanzas del Norte

Vayan al Norte, vayan al Norte...
From Oaxaca to El Paradero
Survival our deepest desire
From the barbed wire de La Frontera
From the frying pan into the fire
Laying low como ladrones
En una tierra de puertas cerradas
Aun podemos escuchar las voces
De nuestros perdidos amados

Vayan al Norte
(Go North)
We never ask for a handout
Or more than our fair share of pay
Downtown you all know where we stand
Out looking for work by the day
You don’t ask why our farms were abandoned
Or of our choice between life and death
Or why we would take such a gamble
For the high hopes of El Norte
Go north, go north
From Oaxaca to El Paradero
Survival our deepest desire
From the barbed wire of the Border
From the frying pan into the fire
Laying low like thieves
In a land of closed doors
We can still hear the voices of our lost loved ones
Go north go north
Say goodbye, leave now
Cross the river, dear ones, don’t cry
Go with God
And go north
They wake us up in mid-sleep
The faces of our old ones
Waving with their tired hands
For the last time, goodbye
Now we will never go back
And we pass through your world like shadows
But we are building a new life
Here in the lands of the north
Go north go north
Say goodbye, leave now
Cross the river, dear ones, don’t cry
Go with God
Go north
Cross the river
Sing, don’t cry,
Go with God,
Go north

There was a 7-11 near my apartment where a lot of people would get work, and one early morning I was just kind of chilling out in front of it near a bunch of guys. I was in a paint-stained hoodie and jeans, and could probably pass for a light-skinned Hispanic person, so when a guy in a truck said "we need one more, $10 an hour, you up?" I said "why not?", since I needed money that day. After that, I'd do it every few weekends. I'd thought the other laborers would dislike a white guy doing the work, but nobody ever seemed to mind.

The basic implied contract is manual labor at a negotiated rate (generally a round dollar figure per hour, generally above minimum wage), paid in cash at the end of the day -- hirers who deviate from that can wind up wishing they hadn't.

It's pretty much like taking a "Gig" posting for odd jobs on Craigslist, except that instead of Craigslist you use a parking lot. Over the months I did it (I was in school and this was pretty much my only source of money) I saw there were some "regulars" who would get crews for contract work (if I understood the Spanglish of my co-laborers right), but since I didn't do construction I never got hired by them (except for one who really needed low voltage electrical, which I can do, but that wasn't a construction site). Mostly it was just guys who, to give some examples:

* needed what they were about to buy at Home Depot loaded onto their truck and unloaded at their house (they always brought us back to the 7-11 after; most of the guys didn't have a car, and neither did I). They'd often get coffee and donuts, too.

* needed mulch spread on their garden and a trench dug in their back yard

* Bought a ton of Ikea furniture but couldn't figure out how to assemble it, and anyways didn't want to carry it upstairs.

etc.

$10 an hour was pretty common (this was in DC in 2005 or so); the impression I got was that the savings they could have gotten for paying less wasn't worth the hassle of keeping small bills around. Plus most of the individuals who got people would also tip, say another $10 on top of whatever the deal was. (With the caveat that I'm a white, native-English speaker who's good at talking with people, so that tip may just have been for that.) Personally, I reported the income, but only because I needed to have officially earned X in order to get the EITC; no idea how many others did. The guys in the crew I got to know were a mix of citizens, green cards, and undocumented (it wasn't something people talked about much, though).

On the other side, when I was moving the last time I went to the same 7-11, hired four guys at $15/hour, had them load my stuff into the big shipping container, and tipped them $20 each on top of their wage. It was blatantly illegal but convenient (the mover I hired backed out three days ahead).

I'd say it's a mixed bag: there's exploitation and there's perfectly good work opportunities, but the laborer is left trying to figure out which is which. It's usually pretty hard manual labor, but at least the stuff I did was also basically completely unskilled. I'm sure the pay is worse once you leave DC, but there honestly if you're a young single guy with no kids and are used to being poor, it's a pretty decent way to get cash when you need it. But the "large crew" side of things, which like I said I never did, I've heard is a lot worse, though: an individual homeowner probably isn't going to stiff the four twentysomething guys who know where he lives now, but the contractor might.